73 replies to this topic

[brroleg]

First, why it should have been introduced into game together with IS getting RAC? Because HAG is basically clan RAC. Here full description from Sarna.

Quote

Description

The Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle is a variation on the Gauss Rifle developed by Clan Hell's Horses in 3068. Hoping to stay ahead of the increasing technological curve, they apparently used similar design principles to the Lyran Alliance's Heavy Gauss Rifle. To compensate for its drawbacks, however, Horse scientists used a series of capacitors and launching tubes to fire a multitude of smaller-caliber Gauss slugs. The resulting high rate of fire, akin almost to Rotary Autocannons, made these weapons very effective against battle armor and Combat Vehicles.^[4]

And now how it can be made into the game to be both balanced and very fun. So since its based on gauss technology it should have:

a) same charge mechanic as gauss.
When using HAG ingame you press button to charge, aim, then release button and based on the HAG size (HAG20,HAG30,HAG40) number of bullets (20, 30 or 40) will fire with same firerate as IS RAC. Balance factor here is that unlike IS RAC, you can shoot only fixed number of bullets (20,30 or 40) based on the HAG size, you cant shoot less or more than (20,30 or 40) bullets per one charge-and-fire cycle. And since all three of HAG sizes should have same ammo per ton (lets say 100 rounds per tonn) - you would be able to shoot biggest HAG40 only 2 times from 1 ton of ammo.

б) same projectile speed and range as gauss. Yes, all three of HAG sizes (HAG20, HAG30, HAG40) should have same range and projectile speed as current Gauss Rifle in game. (as they are on Sarna wiki)

c) cool futuristic sound of shooting like this one https://youtu.be/cXaEP7jGVOs?t=4m20s

Edited by brroleg, 18 March 2017 - 12:04 AM.

[Felix von Buelow]

Why it isnt in the game you answered yourself: It was developed in 3068. The new timeline is until 3067

[brroleg]

GhostNemesys, on 18 March 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

Why it isnt in the game you answered yourself: It was developed in 3068. The new timeline is until 3067

Oh come on, one year of timeline is what stopping us from having clans counterpart of IS RAC for sake of balance and fun? Seriously, in some cases(some mechs release) PGI already violated timeline like on 5 years or something.

Edited by brroleg, 18 March 2017 - 02:03 AM.

[El Bandito]

Don't mind it if HAG is in game. I just wished for slower transition of tech, personally. Timeline advancement to 3060 first woulda been better. PGI is crap when it comes to mass balancing.

[Trenchbird]

Okay, so... The reason I think we didn't get Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles is how much of a balancing headache they'll be. I mean, you have so many weapons getting added that'll undoubtedly need some adjustments when they first come in (MRMs, Rotary Autocannons).

I think that PGI just didn't want the Clans to get yet another weapon that could be called incredibly overpowered, lest they be accused of pandering to the Clan Players even further. And honestly, I understand it, even if diehard Clanners are butthurt over the result. Now, I would've loved them, and honestly, if they were implemented it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, they are apparently inaccurate enough at range to warrant cluster hit penalties at range in tabletop. But that's still a possible 20-30 point buzzsaw (HAGR 40s aren't released until 3069, IIRC) at closer ranges.

But with how Clanners do in CW, and with how so many people complain about how Clanners are OP, I imagine that PGI felt they (The Clan Mechs) didn't need another reason to be complained about more, another reason to be even better.

That, and the nightmare that would be a quad HAGR-20 Kodiak KDK-3. That'd be downright "FML, quitting game" territory at times, that.

Edited by Catten Hart, 18 March 2017 - 12:23 AM.

[brroleg]

Catten Hart, on 18 March 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

Okay, so... The reason I think we didn't get Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles is how much of a balancing headache they'll be.

HAG would make balance more easy since its almost direct counterpart to IS RAC. Adding IS RAC without adding similar counterpart to other side is what will make balancing a headache.

[Mcgral18]

brroleg, on 18 March 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

HAG would make balance more easy since its almost direct counterpart to IS RAC. Adding IS RAC without adding similar counterpart to other side is what will make balancing a headache.

Unlikely
It's not like Clams have been superior since inception, going on three years now.

Balance it against Gauss, the best ballistic in the game
Or the UAC10, a half decent Ballistic

[brroleg]

Quote

Balance it against Gauss

Ok, for example lets take HAG20

-Gauss has 15 pinpoint damage with 10shots per tonn of ammo, no facetime required as all 15 damage released in 1 slug, lead target only until button released and weapon shot.
-HAG20 will have 20 spread damage with 5shots per tonn of ammo, extended facetime required to wait all 20 bullets to finish shooting to make full damage, lead the target after button released while waiting this 20 rounds being shot(yes at high rate of fire but still not insta like Gauss)

In fact the only solid advantage HAG20 has over Gauss is 2 tons less weight, and slightly higher damage at pointblank range when spread will not affect it. In all other aspects, including ammo per tonn, spread, facetime, moving targets, etc., HAG20 looses against Gauss.

Edited by brroleg, 18 March 2017 - 12:53 AM.

[BoldricKent]

And HAG is not at counter for IS RAC, but Silver bullet Gauss rifle, which is actually an LBX take on Gauss tech.
And the prototype was in our time frame, while production was delayed in 70-80. Or a Heavy Gauss rifle, which
shares its damage decline with ranges.
Clan have their own RAC but they just get introduced a bit latter with batter range and less crit slots/tonnage of course.
Copycats..

[Jay Leon Hart]

Goodness forbid the IS get something the Clans don't. I mean, that would just be downright unfair!

[El Bandito]

Jay Leon Hart, on 18 March 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

Goodness forbid the IS get something the Clans don't. I mean, that would just be downright unfair!

I know right? It took IS three years to get weapons and equipment the Clans already had in MWO. Why can't IS get ahead of the tech curve for just one type of weapon system?

[Xhaleon]

I'd say it should be firing pellets of 5 damage each, scaling up its fire rate as the launcher gets bigger so that all pellets go out in the same time frame. Charge up and then fire the stream of slugs. Maybe it could have a longer charge up time than regular Gauss Rifles? At longer distances the brief time spent shooting should roughly emulate the spread damage of the tabletop HAG.

The advantage it would have over the IS RAC is that it will have a much higher range and velocity. The downside is the size, weight, charge up time, lower potential DPS in the realtime environment, less fine granularity in its ammo consumption, and its explodey nature.

If the RAC fires really small pellet damage (~2 damage) at a fast fire rate, that will really differentiate them in terms of feel, sound and aesthetics.

Edited by Xhaleon, 18 March 2017 - 01:55 AM.

[Vonbach]

Just what we need more overpowered clan toys.

[Hit the Deck]

Jay Leon Hart, on 18 March 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

Goodness forbid the IS get something the Clans don't. I mean, that would just be downright unfair!

In the end, IS does get more equipment.

The IS inherent weakness is still there however, with their equipment being heavier, bulkier, and a bit more crude compared to the Clan's. But this is also the thing which permits them having more toys because they can only carry a few of them when heading to the playground. They just have to be a lilttle smart in choosing which ones to bring so they can gain a bit advantage here and there over the other kids and prevent being bullied.

The other kids even have silly "code of conduct" like toy swords and axes shouldn't be brought to the playground. Who are they to tell you what to do?

[Weeny Machine]

...and I am sure their next post on the forum would be "F*** this game. TTK too low"

[Battlemaster56]

I would support HAGS in the game if my MAD MKII can use it don't care if the KDK-3 Gonna abuse the sh1t out of HAG 40's, but on the side of balance HAGS should act like CUAC's fire in burst so the damage is spreadable somewhat (unless you like facetanking UAC's for days). Just find a perfect number of slugs need to fire for each caliber and balance the rest from that.

[Hit the Deck]

Battlemaster56, on 18 March 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

...Just find a perfect number of slugs need to fire for each caliber and balance the rest from that.

As far as I can tell, according to the TRO you launch a number of slugs in the same amount as the weapon number, e.g. 40 slugs for the HAG40 and 20 slugs for the HAG20.

It will create hitreg problem so I guess PGI will greatly decrease the number of shells ejected per shot. If the weapon make it.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Typical brroleg post whining about how the game is too unbalanced towards IS and that it'll only get worse with skill tree and new tech, when in fact, it is very much the opposite

0/10 thread /end thread

[Battlemaster56]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 March 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Typical brroleg post whining about how the game is too unbalanced towards IS and that it'll only get worse with skill tree and new tech, when in fact, it is very much the opposite

0/10 thread /end thread

I really don't see any whining on this post at al unless I'm to blind to tell. It look like he was suggesting an idea how to implement HAG's.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Battlemaster56, on 18 March 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

I really don't see any whining on this post at al unless I'm to blind to tell. It look like he was suggesting an idea how to implement HAG's.

He's implying that because there won't be HAGs, IS will be too overpowered because clans won't have a "counter" to RACs.

Which I find hilarious, being a clan mech is a counter to begin with