221 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

thank the folks who flipped out and QQ'd it to death.

Be cranky if that makes you feel better, but a lot of people felt the skill tree wasn't ready and need more time to cook. Ultimately PGI agreed, and frankly I think that is a good thing. In the end the decision was PGI's alone so if you want to be angry at someone be angry at PGI for getting your hopes up before taking the time to realize they weren't actually ready yet.

[NextGame]

Shifty McSwift, on 18 March 2017 - 02:13 AM, said:

The skill tree system was hyped for release in what early march? I remember I had people in february telling that I was an idiot to buy certain mechs (or multiple of the same mech etc), was told other things were a massive waste of time with the skill tree incoming and should be ignored, and that selling those excess mechs was all you could and should do with the skill tree update so close to being put out.

Not to mention the hanging question of quirks, the notion of refunded points for the older skills systems and the meta changes many people were prepping with this very much high expectation and well defined series of events that was supposed to happen in early march.

I changed up my entire set of mechs and spent wild amounts of cbills and gxp on things I just wanted to experiment with before the skill tree change, personally.

Now to hear that the skill tree update is basically a non promise that faded back to a "maybe later on" addition? If you were expecting to release it by the start of march and were delayed by the whole month for that, that does not fill me with confidence for the release date with such a "meh" attitude toward it. So what will we maybe see this update in 6 months now? in 2018 or 19 maybe? Or is it just a lol, whoops moment that we should forget about now?

Feeling a little like a kid excited for christmas getting a lump of coal and a slap in the face from santa.

Dont do anything regarding spending spacebux in MWO until a change is actually implemented.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I can't believe people are getting angry about them improving the proposed system. I love the idea and I can't wait for it to come out but not like the last suggested imp. Professionals polish off the design, then roll it out. Muppets don't.

PGI obviously care about what they're doing and the quality and guess what... good things come to those who wait.

If I have to wait longer then... so be it. (But please do hurry PGI

[Red Shrike]

The last time people sent PGI back to rebalance a feature on PTS, they just went and scrapped it altogether. This does not bode well for the skilltree.

[Imperius]

The only big complaint people seemed to have including myself is if you are not refunded 100% of your effort and time put into the game. It was a failure.

[Bud Crue]

Imperius, on 20 March 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

The only big complaint people seemed to have including myself is if you are not refunded 100% of your effort and time put into the game. It was a failure.

Oh yes. We need to ensure full refunds so that people aren't forced to play the game any more than is absolutely necessary. The chore of playing is too much of a burden and if even one single player is put in a position where they have to play to work this nightmare grind to regain mastery level...regain even 1XP point...then the skills tree is an abject failure. The horror, the horror. Imagine, just imagine, a game where people play it for fun, and wherein a new system was being instituted so that they could play it a whole new way and do new things? The burden and potential trauma of being forced to regain "lost" progress in such a system cannot be understated.

Yes. That is the "only big complaint" about the skills tree.

I do have a wee, little, complaint though. The gutting of half the mechs in the game and making every single one of the lower tier mechs currently in existence objectively worse to play. But since it is just the total screwing of most of their past balancing efforts toward these low tier wastes of space, I can see why it wouldn't be a "big concern" to PGI. I mean it only took 3 years to get the Victor some armor help, I'm sure they will fix up the crappy mechs -that they are making crappier- in at least a similar period of time so nothing really to worry about. Still, can't help but have a tiny bit of concern.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 19 March 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

Be cranky if that makes you feel better, but a lot of people felt the skill tree wasn't ready and need more time to cook. Ultimately PGI agreed, and frankly I think that is a good thing. In the end the decision was PGI's alone so if you want to be angry at someone be angry at PGI for getting your hopes up before taking the time to realize they weren't actually ready yet.

So, pointing out a fact, and placing the OP's blame toward the appropriate target is being cranky? Good to know man, thanks.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

So, pointing out a fact, and placing the OP's blame toward the appropriate target is being cranky? Good to know man, thanks.

Half truths are not facts. The complaints about the tree stem from PGI's decision to design it the way they did, and the decision to delay it or put it out was entirely up to them. They chose to delay it either because they agreed with the complaints or because they came to a similar conclusion on their own. Like I said be cranky about it if it makes you feel better, but don't try to pin the blame for the delay on the players who didn't like the proposed system because ultimately it was PGI's decision and PGI's decision alone.

You may not being willing to admit it but you have been cranky/bitter about the entire thing ever since PGI made the decision to delay. I get it I really do. I fear it may never see the light of day now as has been the case with other new systems, but I also didn't want the system as it was. I really hope they will continue to work on it so we all get a new skill tree that in the end doesn't alienate large portions of the community.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 20 March 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

Half truths are not facts. The complaints about the tree stem from PGI's decision to design it the way they did, and the decision to delay it or put it out was entirely up to them. They chose to delay it either because they agreed with the complaints or because they came to a similar conclusion on their own. Like I said be cranky about it if it makes you feel better, but don't try to pin the blame for the delay on the players who didn't like the proposed system because ultimately it was PGI's decision and PGI's decision alone.

You may not being willing to admit it but you have been cranky/bitter about the entire thing ever since PGI made the decision to delay. I get it I really do. I fear it may never see the light of day now as has been the case with other new systems, but I also didn't want the system as it was. I really hope they will continue to work on it so we all get a new skill tree that in the end doesn't alienate large portions of the community.

No, I freely admit, I'm bitter about it.

Doesn't change the FACT that the delay the OP is blaming solely at PGI's feet came because a vocal portion of the population cried real loud. You happen to agree with the portion, and as such, are fine and happy. Bully for you. Now if only that group had been able to demonstrate how abusable and bad the skill nodes were.... which they never did. But then, when we agree with someone, it doesn't matter how they act, whereas when we disagree, the very same behaviour is viewed as extremely negative.

[R Valentine]

You guys whining about the skill tree can't see through your rose colored glasses. It was never an addition to the game. All they did was take what we already have and repackage it into a new grind. We weren't getting anything new. They added what, a few extra rounds to your magazine? That was the new content? Please. We weren't even getting back to where we were. They were intentionally trying to set everyone back in C-bills. The one and only saving grace for the new skill tree was the removal of the 3 mech rule, but that was replaced by a C-bill sink. Everything else was just stuff we already have. Nothing new was coming. If you'd have bothered to test it, you'd know that.

[Dimento Graven]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 20 March 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

I can't believe people are getting angry about them improving the proposed system. I love the idea and I can't wait for it to come out but not like the last suggested imp. Professionals polish off the design, then roll it out. Muppets don't.

PGI obviously care about what they're doing and the quality and guess what... good things come to those who wait.

If I have to wait longer then... so be it. (But please do hurry PGI

Exactly, as long as it doesn't end up looking something like:



I think we'll be ok.

To try and cater to those who were too cheap to buy extra modules is silly.

I understand there'll be a period of time where IS 'mechs will suck absolute balls due to losing all/some quirks, but then after a few months, PGI will add them back, OR, create TWO skill trees, one for Clan, one for IS, where the IS skill tree gets IS 'mechs back to where they are now.

Honestly a two skill tree system would be more flexible (but more work) for our type of game (the one I linked is essentially 5 or 6 trees interlinked, even then it's probably NOT the most complicated skill tree in the gaming world).

I'm willing to at least give it a shot...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 20 March 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Not hurt by Tree delay.

I was working on getting all my Mechs to what others said is the needed XP amount for unlocking all nodes on the new Tree though I probably would not have the needed amount of CB.

I did get 1 King Crab, 1 Mauler, 1 Black Knight in the last sale and before that got 1 Cataphract, 1 Victor and 1 Quickdraw, none being chassis I owned. Figured with the new ability to not need 3 variants to Master, would be a good time.

None of this hurts me with the Tree delayed, still had a good time.
The Victor just did not work for me, I refuse to make it XL due to size (thanks Volumetric Rescale ) and STD does not mount enough weapons, sold it off though it did help with JJ testing.
Quickdraw is similar but not sold....yet.
Cataphract-0XP liked though the weaponry seems nothing more than a tougher Hunchback with ECM.
Black Knight was suprisingly enjoyable.
Mauler, tried a few meta builds, didn't like them then made one similar to the Champion coming out, did amazingly well even with Basics only.
King Crab, same as Mauler but I made my own build that works most of the time Basic'd only and got my first or second 1K+ game with.

A few letdowns, yes but not seriously hurt. Tree needs more time and refinement with proper PTS testing.

[R Valentine]

Dimento Graven, on 20 March 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

Exactly, as long as it doesn't end up looking something like:



I think we'll be ok.

To try and cater to those who were too cheap to buy extra modules is silly.

I understand there'll be a period of time where IS 'mechs will suck absolute balls due to losing all/some quirks, but then after a few months, PGI will add them back, OR, create TWO skill trees, one for Clan, one for IS, where the IS skill tree gets IS 'mechs back to where they are now.

Honestly a two skill tree system would be more flexible (but more work) for our type of game (the one I linked is essentially 5 or 6 trees interlinked, even then it's probably NOT the most complicated skill tree in the gaming world).

I'm willing to at least give it a shot...

I keep hearing this argument. "When PGI delays things, they axe them! They can just release it broken and fix it later!"

Uhm, no. When PGI breaks things, they leave them broken. When they nerf mechs into the ground(particularly IS mechs), they leave them that way. So what you're proposing is that they release a bunch of garbage and leave it as garbage instead of releasing something worth while from the get go. PGI's track record of fixing things they broke is just as bad, if not worse, than their track record of axing things they delay. Again, blinded by rose colored glasses.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dimento Graven, on 20 March 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

Exactly, as long as it doesn't end up looking something like:

Spoiler

I want to say that's FFX, but that may be my bad memory...

[Edit] Path of Exile, okey dokey! [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 20 March 2017 - 09:20 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Kiran Yagami, on 20 March 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

I keep hearing this argument. "When PGI delays things, they axe them! They can just release it broken and fix it later!"

Uhm, no. When PGI breaks things, they leave them broken. When they nerf mechs into the ground(particularly IS mechs), they leave them that way. So what you're proposing is that they release a bunch of garbage and leave it as garbage instead of releasing something worth while from the get go. PGI's track record of fixing things they broke is just as bad, if not worse, than their track record of axing things they delay. Again, blinded by rose colored glasses.

No when they ax things they stay axed: Energy SystemDraw, CollisionKnock Downs, etc.

When they break something, it stays broken for a while, then gets either partially/half-assed fixed, or made OP, requiring another fix before it is 'normalized' into something that isn't complete crap, or too OP to be allowed to exist.

[edit: Corrected...]

Edited by Dimento Graven, 20 March 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Kiran Yagami, on 20 March 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

You guys whining about the skill tree can't see through your rose colored glasses. It was never an addition to the game. All they did was take what we already have and repackage it into a new grind. We weren't getting anything new. They added what, a few extra rounds to your magazine? That was the new content? Please. We weren't even getting back to where we were. They were intentionally trying to set everyone back in C-bills. The one and only saving grace for the new skill tree was the removal of the 3 mech rule, but that was replaced by a C-bill sink. Everything else was just stuff we already have. Nothing new was coming. If you'd have bothered to test it, you'd know that.

Well, mostly. We did also get some defensive nodes that are certainly not represented by the current "skills" or modules. Also the jump jet tree, is a straight up buff to jets though likely to be ignored. But other than those, yeah pretty much its what we have just arranged to force you to pick bad with the good.

As to your cbill comments. Russ pretty much said exactly this in the NGNG stream. They need the skills tree to be a cbill sink so as to address the potential "millions of cbills floating around". They need to suck up those cbills so as to give...encouragement...to players to buy new mechs with real money. Without such a sink the one mech system will fail (reading between the lines of Russ's actual statements).

Meh. I don't care about costs, refunds or the re-grind. I just care about my already low tier mechs being made worse. If they go forward with that aspect, I will likely keep playing but I'll likely be playing the same boring meta mechs and builds that everyone else will be playing. So much for increasing mech and build diversity.

[Xetelian]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

thank the folks who flipped out and QQ'd it to death.

You mean the people who wanted refunds? I've spent over 50,000,000 on modules.
I've spent 100,000 GXP on unlocking modules for both innersphere and clan.
I've built up millions in Mech XP.

I should be compensated for this. If they can't compensate me then they will lose a customer, not that they care since we're all on an island and cheapskates.

Edited by Xetelian, 20 March 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Jay Leon Hart, on 20 March 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

I want to say that's FFX, but that may be my bad memory...

Path of Exile, an F2P/Freemium game made by the original developers of Diablo (at least from what I remember being told).

It's kind of MMORPG, allowing people to group up to finish quests and such, and it's got like one story line that people play over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, being that the only "new" content that's regularly added is skins, graphic effects, and inventory enhancements (more storage, specialized storage, etc.).

I think their player base is at least as large as PGI's, if not much larger, but I honestly have no real way of judging it other than by the vast amounts of people logged in and playing...

[Dimento Graven]

Xetelian, on 20 March 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

You mean the people who wanted refunds? I've spent over 50,000,000 on modules.
I've spent 100,000 GXP on unlocking modules for both innersphere and clan.
I've built up millions in Mech XP.

I should be compensated for this. If they can't compensate me then they will a customer, not that they care since we're all on an island and cheapskates.

What I got from the statements I read from PGI on the matter is that compensating those of us who have invested XP/GXP and cbills, isn't the issue. It's the people who play as 'lean' (read: CHEAP AZZMOFO's) as possible that are the problem. The folks who have only purchased a single set of modules who would end up being compensated much less than those of us who said, "F'it, I'm not bothering switching the damn modules out every f'ing time I want to switch a 'mech. Switching modules isn't fun, getting into a match as quickly as possible and blowing up stompy robots is fun, so I'm investing cbills in MORE modules to avoid that particular delay and frustration."

It's those incredibly cheap so-and-so's that have malf'd it for everyone.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dimento Graven, on 20 March 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Path of Exile, an F2P/Freemium game made by the original developers of Diablo (at least from what I remember being told).

It's kind of MMORPG, allowing people to group up to finish quests and such, and it's got like one story line that people play over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, being that the only "new" content that's regularly added is skins, graphic effects, and inventory enhancements (more storage, specialized storage, etc.).

I think their player base is at least as large as PGI's, if not much larger, but I honestly have no real way of judging it other than by the vast amounts of people logged in and playing...

Righty-o! Time to edit the post before another 20 people quote and correct me

Thanks!