221 replies to this topic

[Bogus]

It's generally not a good idea to assume that anything involving the Internet is a sure thing.

[Deathlike]

I like how people try to claim that PGI does no wrong or takes zero responsibility for their actions.

I'm not saying every whiner is right, but wallets speak louder than logic... fortunately or unfortunately.

Seriously though, if people don't like what they see, they are not allowed to complain? The Pokemech collectors and whales by far make up the bulk of PGI's cash cow... and if/when PGI does infringe on them... are they really supposed to keep throwing money at PGI regardless?

I feel people can't really empathize with the whales and pokemech collectors... but if PGI told you your time spent in mechs (grinding them) was near worthless because of the skill tree... are you going to be up in arms or just take it willingly w/o question?

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that annoying paying customers tends to generate a lot of noise.

[Andi Nagasia]

Very true, we also dont know how hard it is to do what PGI does,

yes yes anyone can say well i would do A / B / C, and everyone would be happy,
but the Truth is they wouldnt be, you cant make everyone happy, which is why it can be hard,

its easy of us to say Change this or that and it will make the game better,
but we dont always know best, some times nether does PGI, but they are Trying,
this is a Business, they are in it to make money, which means they are in it to keep the players happy,
Why? because happy players Pay money, unhappy players dont,

we as a comunity have to stop this All our nothing Nuke & Boot view of things,
if X or Y changes then im ganna delete my account, im not playing any more!!!
we have to stop acting like Children, and work to make this community better,

i hate to go off topic but a player in FP SubForum made a Topic asking what FP was about,
and if some one could walk him threw it so he could be a valued member of a FP team even when Soloing,
Said player was call all sorts of names for Asking questions that othesr Deemed too Ovious,

we need to Grow as a Community, and Better our selfs,
we need to find what it means to Love BattleTech and MechWarrior,
we have to Bring others in so they can share our Love for this Series,
if not we will end up pushing our selves and MWO into Extinction,

Thank you,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 March 2017 - 05:01 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Deathlike, on 18 March 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

I like how people try to claim that PGI does no wrong or takes zero responsibility for their actions.

I'm not saying every whiner is right, but wallets speak louder than logic... fortunately or unfortunately.

Seriously though, if people don't like what they see, they are not allowed to complain? The Pokemech collectors and whales by far make up the bulk of PGI's cash cow... and if/when PGI does infringe on them... are they really supposed to keep throwing money at PGI regardless?

I feel people can't really empathize with the whales and pokemech collectors... but if PGI told you your time spent in mechs (grinding them) was near worthless because of the skill tree... are you going to be up in arms or just take it willingly w/o question?

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that annoying paying customers tends to generate a lot of noise.

All I say is: the skill tree has/had its weaknesses e.g. clan vs is balance and the criticism concerning those was justified. On the other hand there were complaints which really were idiotic and it seemed some people really liked slinging mud.

That Bud Crue now acts like these complaints had no impact and that the way the complaints were uttered had zero impact is...ummm...very unrealistic...to put it mildly

[Ted Wayz]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 March 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Very true, we also dont know how hard it is to do what PGI does,

And?

If I don't do my job well people literally die. Are those the stakes PGI plays with?

Given what I do I am well compensated. I have plenty of money but not a ton of time. So when PGI wants to maje MWO a part time job for me...screw them.

And it doesn't take a degree to know that if I create a time sink the people most affected are those with a ton of mechs. Who are most likely your paying customers. Maybe they should factored that into their equation instead of picking out new carpet for the lounge.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ted Wayz, on 18 March 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

And?

If I don't do my job well people literally die. Are those the stakes PGI plays with?

Given what I do I am well compensated. I have plenty of money but not a ton of time. So when PGI wants to maje MWO a part time job for me...screw them.

And it doesn't take a degree to know that if I create a time sink the people most affected are those with a ton of mechs. Who are most likely your paying customers. Maybe they should factored that into their equation instead of picking out new carpet for the lounge.

if your ganna talk like this im ganna say you need to take a time out,
im a mechanic, doing something wrong working on someones engine may cause their engine to fail,
as such people dont die when i mess up, be that doesnt mean a Doctor should try to tell me how to do my Job,
some people know more about different occupations and such are more qualified in those jobs,

[Mystere]

Bush Hopper, on 18 March 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

My favourite whine was: "Bwaaah I must buy "useless" nodes to get the ones I want baaawaaha waaaah". Geez...

Let me just ask you one question. How useful are lower arm actuator "skills" for a Mech that has no lower arm actuators? <shrugs>

[Mystere]

SushiSalad, on 18 March 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

Is this skill tree so important as compared to your real skills? In the first place is it really required? Wouldn't real world skills count rather than relying on such so called boosters or "steroids" to make players spend more C-bills?

I am so glad I am not the only one beginning to think of such questions.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Mystere, on 18 March 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

Let me just ask you one question. How useful are lower arm actuator "skills" for a Mech that has no lower arm actuators? <shrugs>

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 18 March 2017 - 05:32 PM.

[50 50]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Let's be honest. Unless it's Solahma's or another very straight to boating Tree, there will be a storm on the forums. I can get Russ trying to figure out what to do with the refund, but hope he sticks to his guns about the PTS itself.

Go over the proposal again.
To implement it without giving it the same level of detailed attention and criticism would be blatantly irresponsible by us.
People jumped on it because it was shiny and nicely done compared to the relentless 'I hate everything' posts.
A lot of people have also just jumped on it as the perfect implementation because it wasn't done by PGI and it's just an excuse to point the figure and have another stab.

While the proposal had a couple of good points it is horrendously worse in other ways.

The skill tree we saw on PTS2 was pretty good.
It might have needed a couple of small adjustments to the layout, mainly to allow for new skills.
Some changes to how we can select nodes a bit easier (reduced clicking)
It needed half as many skill points that could be allocated.
And it needed a different approach to the refund... which is a separate thing anyway.
Then a revision of the respect and point management.

Otherwise, the system is worth pursuing and releasing so I hope we see more about it soon and can have another go on the PTS.

Edited by 50 50, 18 March 2017 - 05:50 PM.

[Davegt27]

They reduced the effect the fire power nodes have on Mech if your worried about that

The skill sys was such a pain in the neck I was dropping with no nodes unlocked
Just to see what it would do
Not a good idea

The fire power nodes did little (probably since we are used to dubble digit quirks) to help
My Mech

[Ken Harkin]

There are two saying that apply here.

1. At some point you need to shoot the engineers and begin production.

2. Some people would complain if they weren't hung with a new rope.

Release it and deal with it via patches, like everything else.

Some people will always complain, loudly and repeatedly. Ignore them.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

which means you should rejoice! Another opportunity to massively pitch a fit is being lobbed to Redditnation sometime in the presumably near future! Because we know that short of PGI capitulating to it's Mob captors and instituting Saint Solahma's Perfect Progression System^tm (hereby to be referred to as the SSPPS for simplicity), verbatim, the usual suspects will explode and prognosticate doom and bankruptcy, etc.

As per pretty much any attempt PGI makes to change things.

Meh! If PGI was only concerned about complaints with regard to mastery and associated cost, and will not be making other changes in spite of all other feedback, I'm not inclined to feel any sympathy for them in the face of your expected backlash from even the cesspit of humanity.

Cost was the least of my concerns.

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

I just hope I have time to make some popcorn beforehand.
(Man I kind of get it now... hyperbole IS fun!)

Popcorn and not jamon?

Edited by Mystere, 18 March 2017 - 05:55 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

50 50, on 18 March 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Go over the proposal again.
To implement it without giving it the same level of detailed attention and criticism would be blatantly irresponsible by us.
People jumped on it because it was shiny and nicely done compared to the relentless 'I hate everything' posts.
A lot of people have also just jumped on it as the perfect implementation because it wasn't done by PGI and it's just an excuse to point the figure and have another stab.

While the proposal had a couple of good points it is horrendously worse in other ways.

The skill tree we saw on PTS2 was pretty good.
It might have needed a couple of small adjustments to the layout, mainly to allow for new skills.
Some changes to how we can select nodes a bit easier (reduced clicking)
It needed half as many skill points that could be allocated.
And it needed a different approach to the refund... which is a separate thing anyway.
Then a revision of the respect and point management.

Otherwise, the system is worth pursuing and releasing so I hope we see more about it soon and can have another go on the PTS.

Which was actually, entirely my point. I would say many holding it up as the shining example, either 1) didn't really spend enough time investigating it, or the PTS, or 2) have an agenda that favors trying to maintain the current status quo.

And that is no attack on Solahma who did put a good bit of work into that. But it was still very "meta-favorable", compared to the "web-Node" approach that seems to have offended so many.

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 March 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Very true, we also dont know how hard it is to do what PGI does,

yes yes anyone can say well i would do A / B / C, and everyone would be happy,
but the Truth is they wouldnt be, you cant make everyone happy, which is why it can be hard,

its easy of us to say Change this or that and it will make the game better,
but we dont always know best, some times nether does PGI, but they are Trying,
this is a Business, they are in it to make money, which means they are in it to keep the players happy,
Why? because happy players Pay money, unhappy players dont,

we as a comunity have to stop this All our nothing Nuke & Boot view of things,
if X or Y changes then im ganna delete my account, im not playing any more!!!
we have to stop acting like Children, and work to make this community better,

i hate to go off topic but a player in FP SubForum made a Topic asking what FP was about,
and if some one could walk him threw it so he could be a valued member of a FP team even when Soloing,
Said player was call all sorts of names for Asking questions that othesr Deemed too Ovious,

we need to Grow as a Community, and Better our selfs,
we need to find what it means to Love BattleTech and MechWarrior,
we have to Bring others in so they can share our Love for this Series,
if not we will end up pushing our selves and MWO into Extinction,

Thank you,

What PGI should have done on Day 0 was to have a vision, communicate it well to everyone, and stick to it.

Even merely giving the appearance of not having one does not bode well at all.

Edited by Mystere, 18 March 2017 - 06:00 PM.

[Mystere]

Bush Hopper, on 18 March 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

All I say is: the skill tree has/had its weaknesses e.g. clan vs is balance and the criticism concerning those was justified. On the other hand there were complaints which really were idiotic and it seemed some people really liked slinging mud.

That Bud Crue now acts like these complaints had no impact and that the way the complaints were uttered had zero impact is...ummm...very unrealistic...to put it mildly

The onus is on PGI to separate good feedback from pure dung. Letting the latter influence their decision is <unmentionable>.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 18 March 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

Meh! If PGI was only concerned about complaints with regard to mastery and associated cost, and will not be making other changes in spite of all other feedback, I'm not inclined to feel any sympathy for them in the face of your expected backlash from even the cesspit of humanity.

Cost was the least of my concerns.




Popcorn and not jamon?

I don't have an El Cid complex, so yeah, I leave the overpriced bologna for you!

[Nightmare1]

A couple of things...

1) Who in their right minds would start making potent changes to their accounts and gameplay based on any promise from PGI? The devs have too long a history of bad promises for anyone to fall into that trap unless they are very new or very careless.

2) The thing that upset me more than anything else, was PGI's take on time theft. It was okay with them to set us back months or even years on leveling Mechs based on the premise that a handful of whales bought enough modules to completely outfit all their Mechs. In addition, the fact that PGI felt that players being refunded their money for these purchases was somehow "wrong" to the point where they felt obligated to stiff the majority of the player population who did not purchase that number of modules, illustrates a lack of sound logic. Lastly, Russ's snide comments to the effect that people who did not completely outfit their Mechs with modules and engines were cheapskates was quite frustrating. I've never seen a developer possess such disdain for the customers that enable him to pay his bills and live a comfortable life.

Mystere, on 18 March 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

What PGI should have done on Day 0 was to have a vision, communicate it well to everyone, and stick to it.

Even merely giving the appearance of not having one does not bode well at all.

This. PGI announced the skill tree revamp, and then quickly turned it into a complete rebalance. They literally made the same mistake that they made with energy draw.

They need to quit making these attempts at stealth nerfs disguised as needed revamps. All it does is estrange them from the community and make everything harder when it comes to real balancing.

[Jubblator]

Every time someone types the skill tree was a maze or spider net or similar it makes me chuckle it was seriously straightforward. On the other hand i play PoE and other games with actually fleshed out skill trees.
Are people against learning new stuff in this game or what? To me it looked like a fairly straightforward excercise.

Edited by Jubblator, 18 March 2017 - 08:30 PM.

[Mcgral18]

MauttyKoray, on 18 March 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

Would you rather have a half assed, broken system? For once I agree with PGI that it needs to be delayed. The system is a good idea, but it still needs fine tuning. The second PTS was better than the first, but nowhere near what we need to be thrown into the Live servers.

Tree Traversal algorithms must be LosTech™