49 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

Why would you strip any leg armor on a mech who's chunkiest section is pretty much its legs.......not to mention somewhere you mount most of your ammo.

OMG you again.

That was a thrown together smurfy build just to show the feasibility of running an AC10 on a 40 ton chassis that can zoom around at 105 (~113 w/ ST). It's fun and can pull off some nice damage. I'm pretty sure that my in game has close to full armor on the legs and I may have 1t of ammo else where, to clarify. Also, not really dangerous, when use up your ammo.

Edited by JackalBeast, 24 March 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 24 March 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

That was a thrown together smurfy build just to show the feasibility of running an AC10 on a 40 ton chassis that can zoom around at 105 (~113 w/ ST).

Feasible sure, effective however? Meh.

JackalBeast, on 24 March 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

Also, not really dangerous, when use up your ammo.

Leg ammo is consumed last, and 60 shots is a lot to go through without losing all leg armor.

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Leg ammo is consumed last, and 60 shots is a lot to go through without losing all leg armor.

I'm aware- it was a model for demonstration. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's CT, RT,LT, RA, LA, RL, LL in that order for ammo.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 24 March 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

I'm aware- it was a model for demonstration. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's CT, RT,LT, RA, LA, RL, LL in that order for ammo.

Something like that, I don't remember the exact order but I know torsos get consumed before legs.

[Widowmaker1981]

JackalBeast, on 24 March 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

I'm aware- it was a model for demonstration. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's CT, RT,LT, RA, LA, RL, LL in that order for ammo.

Yeah thats right, with the addition of head being last

[Jackal Noble]

ah yep

[Bishop Steiner]

Rakshasa, on 24 March 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

It takes 5 AC2 rounds to down a UAV. I knew this, but I did not know how horrible it feels when required to do it with a single gun. On the flip side, using 2 energy and 2 missile hardpoints for a 40-ton build is also depressing. Why does BT not have an IS ballistic option between .5 tons and 6 tons? Why is that gap there? It's so...so big. So very big.



Joking aside, after a night of playing around with build options it's frustrating how awkward the DD is to fit. Stock build folds like wet tissue paper in a stiff breeze, AC2 requires suicidal face time to have any effect even if you flank. Pulses and SRM's? Kind of works, but other ASN's do it better.

I recall dim rumours of hardpoint inflation being discussed for further down the line. Do we know if that's a real thing, or am I just misremembering? If not I'll say it again - DD could really use another hardpoint option alongside that lone ballistic. Too much weight consumed for too little gun.

And I got to ask...do you think a single Light AC2 or Light AC5...would actually make it appreciably stronger? Until you reach 10s (and even that is arguable) ACs almost always need to be paired, or more to have an appreciable impact. I have a few exceptions that I run, but they are hardly "optimal".

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

You would probably be better off trying to mount a UAC10 given it allows for hit and run better.

RAC2 is 8 tons. IS UAC10 is 13.

And RAC2 you have just enough tonnage to still go decently fast, w/2.5 tons of ammo, 2 MLs and ECM. Even if we dump ECM as "overrated", and both lasers, I need to drag 1.5 tons, which removes the last of my JJs (already almost gone) making me... a bad excuse for a ballistic cicada, or dig into my Engine... which is not ideal, either.

I know you like all or nothing, but to me, this feels like it demands so much tonnage as to be All AND Nothing. :/

JackalBeast, on 24 March 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

Guys put a AC5, UAC5 or even a AC10 on your Dark Death. Or a PPC and 2 ASRM6s.

Seriously.

ASN-Dunkin' Donuts

why would i remove the JJs from a jumping mech and make it into a bad cicada?

Also, yes, PPCs are PPFLD, but they don't sync especially well with SRMs. :/ Mind you, when SN-PPC becomes available, that is a different story. I'll be swapping the 2x LPL on mt 101 over for those, for a certainty(unless PGI just totally screws them up).

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 March 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

RAC2 is 8 tons. IS UAC10 is 13.

And RAC2 you have just enough tonnage to still go decently fast, w/2.5 tons of ammo, 2 MLs and ECM. Even if we dump ECM as "overrated", and both lasers, I need to drag 1.5 tons, which removes the last of my JJs (already almost gone) making me... a bad excuse for a ballistic cicada, or dig into my Engine... which is not ideal, either.

I know you like all or nothing, but to me, this feels like it demands so much tonnage as to be All AND Nothing. :/

I know, I just don't think the RAC2 will make this mech magically feel better, if it could carry 2 LAC5s, then sure, but it can't.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Don't have it, but, ASN-DD build that at least has some ability to hurt things. Sure you could run ultra's, or drop 2 JJ's for taking ML's or SRM4's, but, those are things I would have to decide on after playing the build a while.

As for LAC's? LAC5 would help, 5 tons for 5 damage is a solid deal, but, not happening so oh well. UAC5 is too heavy and restricts the rest of the payload too much for being an arm mounted weapon. SRM2's give high DPS as do the SL's. Not an alpha monster but decent DPS for a 40 ton mech with few hard points.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Why did we not campaign for this mech to have better hardpoints

[Trev Firestorm]

Graugger, on 24 March 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

Light Rifle - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Rifle
Medium Rifle - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Rifle
Heavy Rifle - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_Rifle

Always been a fan of adding these, atleast the light and medium rifle, to fill out the tonnage gap for better low end ballistic hardpoints, even if they are poor weapons overall.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

I know, I just don't think the RAC2 will make this mech magically feel better, if it could carry 2 LAC5s, then sure, but it can't.

I'm not claiming it necessarily will. I am pointing out that is the ONLY way the Ballistic point we be remotely useful. the UAC10 you favor is simply too heavy. If the RAC doesn't help, then the ballistic hardpoint will be quite simply useless.

In which case, one's best option will likely be to pack a SNPPC in the LT, ECM, 2x aSRM6, and either a SPL or MPL in the head. Not the most menacing of armaments. And even if the RAC2 proves decent... I doubt it will be able to pack enough ammo overall to make it a great option. But out of the ballistics options, it still appears to be the only one that has a semblance of being useful.

Trev Firestorm, on 24 March 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

Always been a fan of adding these, atleast the light and medium rifle, to fill out the tonnage gap for better low end ballistic hardpoints, even if they are poor weapons overall.

if the Light Rifle wasn't completely useless against Mech Armor, it might almost be useful. But it isn't, it does no damage. And the Medium and Heavy aren't that great.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Why did we not campaign for this mech to have better hardpoints

Someone always wants to add a ballistic to stuff to be "different".... and never bothers to see if different is good. I didn't campaign, but I've pointed out the DD would be objectively bad, compared to the rest of the ASN, since it was announced.

[Rakshasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

And I got to ask...do you think a single Light AC2 or Light AC5...would actually make it appreciably stronger? Until you reach 10s (and even that is arguable) ACs almost always need to be paired, or more to have an appreciable impact. I have a few exceptions that I run, but they are hardly "optimal".

Not really, but at least you'd have some extra weight to distribute. Farting moistly in the cockpit would blow out the stock DD rear armour.

To be honest, I think ballistics are usually a terrible idea on lighter mechs, especially if they're IS. Outside of clustered MG's like the Arrow it's a huge investment for terrible output, and it really shows on weight-starved variants like the Edgy McEdgelord Darkdeath. Why the designers made AC's so heavy for what they do has always been beyond me.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

Someone always wants to add a ballistic to stuff to be "different".... and never bothers to see if different is good. I didn't campaign, but I've pointed out the DD would be objectively bad, compared to the rest of the ASN, since it was announced.

I've known it would be bad too, just wish we had known PGI would be open to change to it like they were with the Resistance heroes.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rakshasa, on 24 March 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Not really, but at least you'd have some extra weight to distribute. Farting moistly in the cockpit would blow out the stock DD rear armour.

To be honest, I think ballistics are usually a terrible idea on lighter mechs, especially if they're IS. Outside of clustered MG's like the Arrow it's a huge investment for terrible output, and it really shows on weight-starved variants like the Edgy McEdgelord Darkdeath. Why the designers made AC's so heavy for what they do has always been beyond me.

Because in 3025 tech, where they were designed, low heat is king, and they actually balanced pretty well against the other systems.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

I've known it would be bad too, just wish we had known PGI would be open to change to it like they were with the Resistance heroes.

That was probably a numbers game.... combined with trying to improve PR for the PTS/Skill Tree. But I doubt as many people had cared about what the ASN Hero was going to be as did for their MetaVomit Grashoppers or Blackknights, etc.(even though BKs ain't been meta in a bit)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 March 2017 - 10:36 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

if the Light Rifle wasn't completely useless against Mech Armor, it might almost be useful. But it isn't, it does no damage. And the Medium and Heavy aren't that great.

Ah whoops... thats too bad :/

[Rakshasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Because in 3025 tech, where they were designed, low heat is king, and they actually balanced pretty well against the other systems.

True, but you'd think they might still have given players a bit more oomph for the weight. 2 points of damage is the equivalent of, what? One vehicle MG or two infantry rifles? I still ponder about the lineup being AC4, AC8, AC12 and AC20 instead sometimes, but that probably means I'm bad and should feel bad

[Bishop Steiner]

Rakshasa, on 24 March 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

True, but you'd think they might still have given players a bit more oomph for the weight. 2 points of damage is the equivalent of, what? One vehicle MG or two infantry rifles? I still ponder about the lineup being AC4, AC8, AC12 and AC20 instead sometimes, but that probably means I'm bad and should feel bad

3 pts damage... with 8x the range. I could be argued that that the 2,5 and 10 are a ton too heavy, but in their original setting they were marginally oversized at best, and again, given how heat was king, was better to err on caution.

[Pyed]

Rakshasa, on 24 March 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

According to the timeline (yeah, lore again) LAC's don't enter production by the Federated Suns until 3068. Civil War timeline is going to go up to 3067. I see what PGI may have done there

O ya. Huh. Never bothered to look, just kind of assumed they were Civil War era.

Welp, better hope that RAC2 has enough of a punch to make it a primary light/medium mech weapon on its own. Otherwise it's still gonna be rough to make much use of ballistics below about 50 tons.