MischiefSC, on 25 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:
Do you want to go to a lobby and stand in the open on Polar at 800m, me with ERLLs/ERPPCs/whatever and you with LRMs and see who wins? You can even pick the tonnage.
Sure, why not. I don't have a premium but I'm sure we can find someone to launch us.
MischiefSC, on 25 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:
What if I bring ECM? AMS? Or are we saying no counters?
The question of counters is an interesting one. Most competitive teams don't bother with LRM counters at all simply because rocks and buildings do same as ECM and AMS but better. However as I've pointed out on a map with no cover the situation can change dramatically. Obviously bringing ECM/AMS in abundance will severely lower the opponents chances should they bring LRMs, however it also obviously increases your opponents chances should they bring anything but LRMs as you waste tonnage and/or bring an ECM mech instead of an optimal one.
MischiefSC, on 25 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:
Fine either way but the argument you're trying to make flat out isn't rational. At any range Hitscan or PPFLD > slow delivery of scattered damage. Sure, anyone can twist damage to a degree but twisting LRMs or just walking along spreads them over your whole mech. Twisting off PPFLD is still going to get you the full payload in 1 location each time and with lasers it's not too far off that.
Unless your first/second alpha either kills or severely cripples your opponent the slow delivery won't matter at all. An LRM boat of the same tonnage will have a much higher sustained DPS than anything with PPC/Gauss/ERLL. Surely you will deal much more damage in the first 5-7 seconds, but you will also gain heat much faster. Past 10 seconds mark unless you've managed to cripple a lurmer you've pretty much lost it. As soon as LRMs start to connect your aiming will also be obstructed by both screen shake and explosions, and even if it doesn't prevent a really good player from returning fire it does make it harder, a problem an LRM boat never has since aiming isn't required. The only thing that currently stays on par in terms of sustained DPS at ~800m ranges with LRMs is a bunch of AC2s, but needless to say AC2s spread about as much as LRMs and require even more constant face time, not allowing for wicked torso twisting skills at all.
MischiefSC, on 25 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:
So are you saying the correct balance in the game for LRMs is.... eliminating cover? Do you understand that just ensures that the guy with better aim and longer range will win every time?
Nope, I'm saying that LRM balancing should be done based on no-cover fighting situations rather than based on peek-from-cover trades. And I am also saying that no-cover fighting situations should occur far more often, i.e. there should be far more maps with little to no cover in rotation. Exact same should be said about SRMs and other brawling weapons and maps with no open spaces.
MischiefSC, on 25 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:
Also still looking for the match in MRBC you're talking about. I sorted through 20 pages and only saw 1 match with 1 LRM mech in it and it wasn't a div A or B and I don't think you can watch the match and argue reasonably that the team that won did it because they had an LRM Archer on their team.
I don't remember exactly, but during either 7th or 8th season BSMC won vs WDMC on Polar using an LRM deck. Thats a EU Div.A match. From what I remember exactly is same BSMC winning against ISKRA in SL EU just a few weeks ago (I took part in it).
MischiefSC, on 25 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:
If all competitive matches were on polar they would play similarly just with easier heat management to matches on Canyon. You might see more fast brawlers, at least based on how the scrims played out.
This is entirely false due to several reasons. Apart from Polar not having much in terms of cover unlike Canyons, it is also a far bigger map, which leads to greater ranges of engagement and dropdecks tend to have far more ERLLs than Gauss/PPC (especially since Gauss max ranged has been c*strated by PGI). Plus, as you know, MRBC drops are conquest, and teams are forced to pay attention to caps right off the bat as merely winning the fight in a rather slow long-ranged trade war leaves no time to secure caps afterwards.
Anyway, I'm not saying LRMs are a guaranteed win on an open map, even in the best of scenarios, but they aren't as inferior as you might think. You might win that duel sure, but you'll hardly have anything left of your mech afterwards.
Also, don't forget that you can always narc a couple mechs and lurm them down being perfectly under cover yourself while your opponent tryes to close in the distance or flanks your cover. Taking out one or two slow assaults without losing much of anything on your side is an advantage that isn't going to be lost in a match between equally skilled teams. But thats another matter.
Edited by PhoenixFire55, 27 March 2017 - 01:59 AM.