64 replies to this topic

[Skanderborg]

Natred, on 24 March 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Here we go again with this hill hump or lrm boat in the back conversation... "omg 3 small laser lights jumped all over me and i could not even kill one." Its so overpowered you know, fighting with the team. Lol or in your case not fighting with your team is under powered.

I don't think this is the subject of the conversation?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Skanderborg, on 24 March 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Yes it is a tricky problem. If you took the heat capacity increase off of heat sinks it would be a major burden on energy builds , however everything takes net nerf.

UAC boaters still run pretty hot in my opinion under continious fire so it would hamper them as well.

Not near as much because despite being hot they are still not AS hot as energy builds. In other words they would still have the best DPS and energy oriented mechs would no longer be able to exploit their sole strength which is higher alphas.

Skanderborg, on 24 March 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

For example , if a mech had 3 large lasers and 2 ASRM6s , he would only use the lasers for long to med range and the SRM 6's for CQC because with a net heat capacity loss he could not keep all the weapons firing.

That's not how it would work, because that mech that runs 2 AC10s or 3-4 AC5s would just be hands down better on both ends.

[chucklesMuch]

CK16, on 24 March 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

Ok, this is one thing that has always bugged me about MWO, boating tons of small weapons is the go to instead if mounting few but larger caliber weapons. (Example the LRM5 spam vs double LRM20's.) In lore no Warrior would run in with 10 Small lasers (if he did it was the Charger and that things main varriant is crap on a stick!). I mean in TT sense larger caliber weapons are more useful cause it is one dice roll and a hit means all damage is focused on one component for that weapon (well for energy and Ballistic weapons). A small caliber boat might hit with all its weapons sure but chances of them being spread all around is highly likely (aka it might work but it isn't efficient).

So how could MWO try to counter this? The new crit system kind of seems like it is in the right direction (smaller weapons = less health). But does it fix the issue?

No. Just no!!! (To nerfing my lights, nova's and executioners! And all the weight starved mechs out there)

[Mystere]

[Ghogiel]

Skanderborg, on 24 March 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

For example , if a mech had 3 large lasers and 2 ASRM6s , he would only use the lasers for long to med range and the SRM 6's for CQC because with a net heat capacity loss he could not keep all the weapons firing.

However i could be completely wrong and people would find another way to beat the system just like they have done before.

That's not what would happen. What would happen is the same as now, except with less of the hottest weapons because you 1, wouldn't have as enough alpha fpr peeking, 2 would have even less sustained to do squat if pressed.

People would iinstead optimise their weapons engagment profile so they aren't faffing with bracket/mixed builds and ranges. so no serms+LL. People would take the dual gauss, dakka, maybe even serms and cspls builds that have the same sort of burst and as much better sustained than an energy build would have. We'd be laughing so hard if laser alphas were lowered and were trading with them in a poke game with dakka, or they shutdown faster/had to use chain fire if they were rushed with dakka or brawlers

[Skanderborg]

Ghogiel, on 24 March 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

That's not what would happen. What would happen is the same as now, except with less of the hottest weapons because you 1, wouldn't have as enough alpha fpr peeking, 2 would have even less sustained to do squat if pressed.

People would iinstead optimise their weapons engagment profile so they aren't faffing with bracket/mixed builds and ranges. so no serms+LL. People would take the dual gauss, dakka, maybe even serms and cspls builds that have the same sort of burst and as much better sustained than an energy build would have. We'd be laughing so hard if laser alphas were lowered and were trading with them in a poke game with dakka, or they shutdown faster/had to use chain fire if they were rushed with dakka or brawlers

Sounds like exactly whats happening today , even with the increased capacity laser boats can only alpha twice before their at 98% heat.

Seems like if we did a net heat nerf all it would do is increase TTK and play styles would stay the same , except laser boats which would fail miserably.

Back to square 1 as always.

Edited by Skanderborg, 24 March 2017 - 11:46 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

What we need is a real heat scale.

[CDLord HHGD]

Also, change Ghost Heat.

[GotShotALot]

Make it a part of the skill tree. Mechs get a 'weapon budget' for their stock loadout. They spend 1 point to add 1 more weapon of a type they come stock with. They spend 2 points to add a weapon of a type that doesn't come stock. These points subtract from the points they can add to other things, and also of course take more grinding etc.

Slots:

Small Ballistic / Med Ballistic / Large Ballistic
Small Energy / Med Energy / Large Energy
Small Missile / Med Missile / Large Missile

Somewhat more restrictive would be to make it charge points to change the weapon item, eg. changing a Sm Laser to a Sm Pls Laser would still cost points.

(Edit: just so it's clear, this means the 'stock loadout' is free, and only changes cost points)

Edited by GotShotALot, 24 March 2017 - 12:27 PM.

[Skanderborg]

CDLord HHGD, on 24 March 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

What we need is a real heat scale.

I believe this is what we need as well. Increasing negative effects as heat goes up.

Edited by Skanderborg, 24 March 2017 - 12:26 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Skanderborg, on 24 March 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Sounds like exactly whats happening today , even with the increased capacity laser boats can only alpha twice before their at 98% heat.

Seems like if we did a net heat nerf all it would do is increase TTK and play styles would stay the same , except laser boats which would fail miserably.

Back to square 1 as always.

So nerfing one loadout into the ground because you think alphaing lasers twice is a problem? What happened to variety?

[Skanderborg]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 March 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

So nerfing one loadout into the ground because you think alphaing lasers twice is a problem? What happened to variety?

I dont think laser alphas are the problem , i think the amount of damage being done in general is to high.

The amount of power creep that swept over since i payed in the closed beta is staggering.

When it was just the awesome , atlas , catapault , dragon , commando , hunchback , and cent with ****** 25 alphas the game was alot more fun in my opinion.

Edited by Skanderborg, 24 March 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Skanderborg, on 24 March 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

When it was just the awesome , atlas , catapault , dragon , commando , hunchback , and cent with ****** 25 alphas the game was alot more fun in my opinion.

There were also fewer optimized options during those days so don't look at that time like it would be the exact same given the mech selection.

If you are talking about the days of SHS when it was SL and Gauss boating, then I don't know what to tell you, because there was a limited selection of weapons that were useful during those days.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 March 2017 - 12:54 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 March 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

There were also fewer optimized options during those days so don't look at that time like it would be the exact same given the mech selection.

If you are talking about the days of SHS when it was SL and Gauss boating, then I don't know what to tell you, because there was a limited selection of weapons that were useful during those days.

Before the clans the biggest balance problem was the Victor being too agile for an assault. And AC40 Jaeger pretty much getting AC20 nerfed in every direction, including the addition of ghost heat. And the six PPC Stalker, but that ended with Ghost Heat's introduction. All the vitriol and hate for GH. They pushed it right on through because it needed to be done. I miss those days... Maybe we'd have a better version of energy draw by now..

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 24 March 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

And then we have those aircraft with cowl- and engine-mounted weapons...

[Pixel Hunter]

I would be a proponent of a jam for many weapons of the same type firing at once (lasers and missiles) AND have some kind of circuit breaker trip if you fire to many lasers of the same type in rapid succession

just have it tell you something like "warning laser weapon circuit overload....resetting"

I mean keeping up with the loading would be tough and mechs have to have some kind of circuit protection don't they? for balance it would only bee if you're firing something like 8 small lasers or a bunch of ac2's...i'd also agree that MG arrays need a jam too

Edited by Gimpy117, 24 March 2017 - 02:57 PM.

[Necro Ash]

Simple concept on the cone of fire idea - just like LRM locks, cone reduces over tracking time. This could lead to a few things:

• mechs movement relates to speed of circle decreasing to minimum size. Point blank would help (by filling the circle with your target), while faster moving mechs would be strafing more then just running into someone and puliing the trigger faster.
  
• Weapons could be given an inherent accuracy of how close to the center they hit, differing gauss, ac, laser.
  
• MG's rof would have another use then crit seeking
  
• lots of small weapons would be for all intents and purposes a shotgun of them into the target circle.
  
• targeting computers would speed up tracking
  
• lrms wouldn't need it, giving them a better battlefield purpose

YMMV, but just my thoughts. I know I'm just a tier 5 but trying to contribute my 2¢ based on experience from other non-CoD/CSGO games.

[Mister Blastman]

Well if PGI would remove convergence or give us more torso armor sections to spread the damage around better then perhaps there'd be a reason to take higher caliber weapons instead...

But no. We can't have nice things. Instead we're stuck with... insanity.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 24 March 2017 - 07:33 PM.

[Clanner Scum]

I hate all the anti-boating sentiment in the MWO community. There's nothing wrong with boating.

If PGI makes boating literally impossible I'm quitting outright.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Mister Blastman, on 24 March 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

perhaps there'd be a reason to take higher caliber weapons instead...

The meta is big weapons like PPC and Gauss.