2 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

As I am currently patching I have watched some vids in the meantime and wanted to give a first impression from just these.

I think the game mode has the right ideas but I am missing the feeling of what this mode wants me to feel like.

I don't quite get the "head cinema" (don't know whats called in english)
In skirmish its about two units faceing off, fighting to the last man.
Domination is the figh for a central point, escort is about the VIP...you can kinda tell yourself a "story" to the modes.

In Inncursion, from what I have seen, its a mix of two "storys" I can see but none is quite there.

1)
One part is a small unit tries to attack a base, geting in, destroy importend components, get out.
This dosn't quite work as we have two bases instead of an asymetrical setup with an attacking and one defending group.

2)
The heavy assault on a fortification. One group would try to force its way into the enemy base, a frontal assault, high losses on both sides. Basicly what we have in faction warfare, except the respawn.

Inccursion in its current form is kinda like a mix of this.
We have a base that is more like a small outpost in the middle of nowhere. I saw mechs running into the enemy base, destroying it and don't getting shotdown by the turrets and people skirmishing (again) or just sit back.

Also two of the three towers aren't realy helpfull IMO.
Radar is basicly a must-have. Jamming, nice to have, Airport....dosn't realy do it for me.


Just some quick ideas till patching is done...

• Make the gamemode asymetrical, one attacker, one defender.
  
• Either give the base more defences, especially inside the base there should be some turret-towers that fire down so that mechs can't play hide and shoot or leave it as the small outpost it currently is and make the gameplay more about sneaking in.
  
• Some LRM/SRM towers would be nice too.
  
• Turn the Airfield into an attack instead of support structure. Let the Dropship make a quick sweap over the battlefield or call in 3 fighters strikes instead of the single dropship...also makeing the dropship destructable would be awesome.
  
• When reinforceing the base defence, add a hill near the base for spotters to look targets / TAG / NARC them.
  
• Have some artillery for each side, creating a breach in the walls...or as one in the vids said "I feel like in Helm's deep". Lets reinforce that feeling.
  
• What about takeing out "Kill all mechs" as a finisher. Only base destruction counts and either give people limitless respawns or Repairbays. Let people go back to base and repair themself. If you die you are stay dead but if someone covers you and you make it back to base you can repair yourself and go back to the fight. The team that works together in switching positions and supports each other the most should have an advantage.

As I said, some general thougts that came up when I watched the vids...patcher should be done...hope it play well.

Edited by Nesutizale, 25 March 2017 - 04:46 AM.

[Tiantara]

- New to mode player just miss vital point...
No need take battery and run with that to the base right after that. Each mech can hold 1 battery and all need - just push enemy to their base and run into own on mech with power cell in it, to make base operable.

By idea - battery must provide self-defence when main forces do their job. And battery can hold any mech no matter how long until they need in base. On practice - no one care about it. Another thing that - providing self defense not effective, retrieving energy cells not well payed and also too risky for any mech (too easy get shot to back from sniper).

But... if power cells do boost to already working systems - that would be better.
Like when you put battery:
Jam zone become bigger from already provided withing base.
Radar show more enemy beyond base walls but with energy cell can show up to 2\3 of map.
Air defense replace with booster of laser cannon (change medium laser to PPC with minimum range for limited time) But all cannons can be shoot-downed by capturing 2 highly camouflaged towers with random location.
Something like that... and than fast mech can run back to attacked base and provide support to it with additional energy.

That can help this mode become more playable and strategic.

[Nesutizale]

I finaly got a chance to play the maps...in a 1V1 with a friend because we didn't found a match.

Anyway here is what I have noticed:

1) Layout of the bases
Short version: Terrible
Long version: Bases where confusing in their layout as the structures where cramped in the existing map. In Crimson it got even so far that the base layout was even unfair to one team.
While one had a lots of building covering the targets the other base had a bridge leading into the base. From there you could shoot down targets without beeing fired back at. Under the bridge is a base structure that you can even shoot from afar without beeing targeted.
The other maps where a little bit better but its still terrible.

Solution, cut out all the other structures that are inside the walls. Place turrets in strategic positions like directfire turrets at the entrance, indirect fire turrets inside the base.
Place TAG turrets on top of the bigger pillars that support the walls.

Also make sure that there aren't any ways to pass around the walls. Noticed this again on crimson, where I could just walk around the wall and walk into the base in a blind spot.

Beside the overall bad layout, decide on one style you want to go with. Either its a fortress like structure with big walls and lots of turrets or its a mobile base, then don't place any walls at all but put in an HQ, 3 Antenna vehicles and some tanks (basicly turrets that look like tanks).
The current mix gives of a strange feeling. The mode is in texting phase and theirfore unfinished but the look of the bases currently made it feel like this hasn't been thought through to the end or like you are unwilling to put the resources into it to make it a good mode.

2) Energie Gathering
The energie gethering is surely a welcome change, at least on my part but it dosn't work well as it is.
Next to no rewards are given to actualy gethering these resources and it takes to long to get them from the base and back. To be effective you have to have at least one mech taht does nothing else then gathering.
For htat person the game is basicly a lost cause as he dosn't get any rewards. Also the gethering spots are mostly open to be sniped at. This makes it not only not very rewarding but also could end the game very quickly for you.

High risk, next to no rewards....thats a no go. No fun at all.

3) What will happen
I can think of the following scenarios to happen

3.1) One sided rush
One team rushes, ingnoring the gathering completly. If the enemy would try to gather resources they would most likely loose their gathering mechs early on and be backed into a corner. Since the turret defence isn't that great it would turn into shooting fish in a barrel.
I think that could be preventet by either makeing the towers a "must have", so that at least some of each team have to gather resources.or make the gathering so rewarding that some greedy people will go for the resources.
The winning condition would support it because if there isn't anyone left tearing down the base is quite to easy.

3.2) The camping
Both sides staying in base because you are allready a ball of death that way. I still think that because of some of the baselayouts it would turn into shooting fish in a barrel as teammembers would stand in the way of each other.
Still people might stay back just to be the last man standing, hoping to get some easy kills.
Don't have a real solution to this...maybe make one of the towers an offencive one with airstrikes/artillerie or whenever you get energie back to your base you damage the enemys.

3.3) Doing skirmish
Both teams ignor the objectives as they don't encurage people to gather them and just stomp the enemy...and I don't see much in the way they shouldn't.
The bases can't realy defend themself. As long as two or three mechs are left standing the bases are toast...it just a matter of time.
This is also the most likely scenario this will most likely turn into....so bases need a defence that is strong enough to defend itsself but at the same time weak enough to not win the game on its own.
Frankly I doubt that you will ever get that balanced right.

Solutions
1) Make objectives woth beeing done, either by giving the one collecting enough CBills/XP or by making the towers a must have to win the game. That means they have to be very powerfull. Radar is allready quite good but the Dropship is a wast of time. Jamming is kinda interesting but dosn't to much.
Instead you might want to place more turrets that are offline and only come online with extra energy you collect or make the dropship a combat unit.
I don't know how well your AI is developed but from the parts that are there I think it should be possible to create a Tank that follows a fixed path and has a turret firing at the first target it seas. Basicly combining AI Atlas with a turret....else use the Atlas and let it fire. Haveing an additional Atlas that storms the enemy could be fun.

2) Respawn. I know not the most liked topic but it would fix some problems with this mode.
When people rush, they have to take into account that people respawn. Keeping up a constant presure would be very importend. Also the defenders could try to flank and go on the offensive themself. Makeing a good scout or someone supporting the towers with energie a good idea.
Camping wouldn't be a viable tactic as you don't gain anything anymore, you can't just sit there and wait, hopeing that the enemy would stop comming at you and skirmishers would face the same problem as just killing stuff wouldnt matter anymore, there will allways be someone else to kill you.

The big problem with respawns is how to count points. Without a change to the system there is little that would stop people from abuseing the system to just fight forever (till the timer runs out) to just make moeny.
First thing that comes to my mind is haveing a CAP if income. Make it around the average income of the playerbase or something like that.

3) Asymetrical warfare
Have one attacker and one defender. Turn energie points into the Radar, Jammer, Airtower. Defenders would have to come out of their base to get these advantages, attackers need these to have a tactical advantage.

4) Create (a) new map for this mode
Take a look at Battlefield, the gameplay is ismilar to what they try to do here but the scales are different. Compared ot the "units" the maps is hugh. Except for Polar, I don't think that two bases so close to each other works very well.
It also prevents from haveing some more meaningfull targets to capture as you allways have to aspect someone allready waiting to snipe you.
Haveing multiple attack and defending routes would also help with the design. The current maps work well with skirmish, beeing quickplay maps but this is a type of gamemode that kinda yells "Longplay" at me.
FW does this allready kinda well with the 4 drops. Frankly take the FW maps, if you don't want to develop new maps and make them Inccursion maps.
For all the people who have never played FW there would be some new maps and they are overall more fitting ot the mode.

There is more but I am allready at the TL:DR rate...so I will just stop it here.
I think that this gamemode is something I would like to see but it feels not thought through enough and halfbacked...please send it back to the drawingboard.