95 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Anjian, on 18 April 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

Bla bla bla Wall of text

My position is that as long as there's an option for quick play mode without respawns, I'm happy.

No option for that less happy

Have your mode, as long as I can have mine.

As I said earlier, Maybe having a solo and group que fo FW might fix some problems

[Anjian]

Livaria, on 18 April 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

And I have seen the exact opposite. Games can drag on as well, so need to accomodate both don't we?

How about for objective victory is 12 minutes. But if neither side gains an objective advantage over another. Then sudden death should occour. Someone has to either tip the objective scale in their favor, or clear all enemies off the map.

If we add in more than 1 respawn; Quick play is no longer quickplay. It is faction play without contested planets.

Why would you have the game drag on? You simply put a FIXED TIMER. 10 minutes and you're up, whatever you're doing, the game is done. There is no overtime. The game will simply be won on points. On a game using team depletion bars, red and blue, on the top of the screen, the chances of two teams having the very exact depletion rate is astronomically low. You never get a draw, period.

If you want to design the game mode with 10 minutes, fine. If you want to design the game mode at 12 minutes, fine. If you want to design a game mode for 15 minutes fine. If you want to design the game mode at 20 minutes, that's fine too.

The point is, when the time is up, its up. If neither team does not complete their full objectives, the one with the most points wins, even if its close, like 686 vs. 645.

There are so many PvP games out there that will finish in 10 to 20 minutes with respawns, and that for them is casual. In War Thunder, the "casual" arcade mode is the one with 3 to 5 respawns. The "middle core" Realistic Battle modes uses the more limited respawns by earning tickets, and the "hard core" Simulation mode that has no respawn.

[Anjian]

OZHomerOZ, on 19 April 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

My position is that as long as there's an option for quick play mode without respawns, I'm happy.

No option for that less happy

Have your mode, as long as I can have mine.

As I said earlier, Maybe having a solo and group que fo FW might fix some problems

Its possible to have different modes that have no respawns or work better with no respawns. We can keep the Skirmish, Assault and Escort as no respawns. But things like Incursion may work better with respawns. Conquest and Domination can work on either, depending on the TTK, but then again, the game's TTK has gone too low. Do note that when games have single spawns, like World of Warships, not only do they have high TTK, but they also have heals and repairs.

FW doesn't solve all the problems because of the Clan/IS imbalance, even if you have separate queues. FW/CW/FP is in my opinion, from decades of gaming, the worst I have ever seen for a game design. It is the most utterly incompentent game design ever

[General Solo]

Anjian, on 19 April 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

Its possible to have different modes that have no respawns or work better with no respawns.

That is all I'm asking

[Livaria]

Anjian, on 19 April 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

Why would you have the game drag on? You simply put a FIXED TIMER. 10 minutes and you're up, whatever you're doing, the game is done. There is no overtime. The game will simply be won on points. On a game using team depletion bars, red and blue, on the top of the screen, the chances of two teams having the very exact depletion rate is astronomically low. You never get a draw, period.

If you want to design the game mode with 10 minutes, fine. If you want to design the game mode at 12 minutes, fine. If you want to design a game mode for 15 minutes fine. If you want to design the game mode at 20 minutes, that's fine too.

The point is, when the time is up, its up. If neither team does not complete their full objectives, the one with the most points wins, even if its close, like 686 vs. 645.

There are so many PvP games out there that will finish in 10 to 20 minutes with respawns, and that for them is casual. In War Thunder, the "casual" arcade mode is the one with 3 to 5 respawns. The "middle core" Realistic Battle modes uses the more limited respawns by earning tickets, and the "hard core" Simulation mode that has no respawn.

Okay, I still have my doubts on having that many respawns for every game mode.

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2017 - 04:47 AM.

[Anjian]

Livaria, on 19 April 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

Okay, I still have my doubts on having that many respawns for every game mode.

I am sensing that you don't play much on other games.

When a game's timer ends, game ends. Doesn't matter what you are doing, doesn't matter how many spawns you consume, doesn't matter even if you never consumed a single spawn and your original mech or vehicle is still surviving at the very end. Since the game is objective based, you will win or lose on points earned, and you may still lose even if your team has scored more kills.

Edited by Anjian, 19 April 2017 - 05:10 AM.

[Livaria]

I thought the game already does this, all that I'm getting from the is that death and kills don't matter at all instead. Which sounds, a little boring.

How are you going to apply an objective scoring system to game modes like assault, incursion, skirmish and escort?

EDIT: You know what? I've decided I don't really care about this topic anymore. Respawn or not, all we really need is enable the ability for players to win through objectives faster than they can win through annihilation. We can do this by either shortening the length it takes to win by objective, Or by adding a slow respawn rate to the game. That is all, I'm done here.

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2017 - 07:40 AM.

[Anjian]

Livaria, on 19 April 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

I thought the game already does this, all that I'm getting from the is that death and kills don't matter at all instead. Which sounds, a little boring.

How are you going to apply an objective scoring system to game modes like assault, incursion, skirmish and escort?

Bah. Its that simple. Its already in the game. Do you see the match points each player obtains at the end of the match? Match points is an accumulation of kills, damage, spotting, capture, etc,. Each team has a bar on top, and as people accumulate match points, these match points are added to the team total that is displayed on top of the bar. The team with the most match points wins.

Quote

EDIT: You know what? I've decided I don't really care about this topic anymore. Respawn or not, all we really need is enable the ability for players to win through objectives faster than they can win through annihilation. We can do this by either shortening the length it takes to win by objective, Or by adding a slow respawn rate to the game. That is all, I'm done here.

Its really obvious your gaming experience with other games other than this is limited. There are many games out there with respawns, and yet the entire game is done is 10 to 20 minutes.

All you need to do is design the game so that the terrain objectives are reached and capped within the first two minutes of the game, then for the rest of the game, even for 10 minutes, its wave after wave where you either defend possession of the objective, or regain possession of the objective. Which by the way isn't my idea, its a common idea I have observed that exists already with PvP games.

[Livaria]

Anjan, you really do assume a lot from me. I have played a lot of games and have put a good amount of time in them. Just maybe not your kind of games. I know this idea exists, I just don't care much for it.

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2017 - 09:06 AM.

[Anjian]

Livaria, on 19 April 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Anjan, you really do assume a lot from me. I have played a lot of games and have put a good amount of time in them. Just maybe not your kind of games. I know this idea exists, I just don't care much for it.

Your responses defy common sense.

You want a short game? Put a freaking timer on it. Game ends in 15 minutes, period. Heck, just make it end in 10 minutes period.

If you said you play a lot of games, you don't show it. Most freaking PvP games I have been has a time limit.

Can't finish the objective in 10 minutes? Heck 10 minutes is far too long. Territorial objectives are often accomplished in the first three minutes of any game. Developers can easily design the game mode for it, by measuring the distance of the territorial objective to the spawn, along with the speed of the players. Players need to adapt finishing the objectives quick and learning how to retain it. Its called Team Focus. Its called Player Focus. Its something people learn how to develop if they are not playing a TDM.

[Livaria]

What you're saying, is that we adjust the time limit if the game gets too long from players constantly respawning.
Either you're saying that the entire game is tie-broken in this manner, or it is completely determined by the team score.

Is this correct?

My concern is that by adding this many respawns to the game, it will make the game; time-out more often. The final team score will may end up mattering more than the objectives or even deathmatch. That is, Unless if the objectives themselves somehow contribute more to the games victory.

The reason for overtime is just to make objective wins; to stay objective, and to quicken the rate at which a game will end. If we mix in team peformance with objectives, then way may end up having the same problems since killing the enemy team is still a significant overall factor towards winning. Objectives may be overlooked if they don't matter enough.

If we make objective wins more accessible, we may not even need respawns. But if we do, then sure, it'll do the job. But respawns isn't ideal for everyone's idea of gameplay. You may end up upsetting a lot of people that want to be conservative with their mechs. So I'd be careful with the idea of respawns.

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2017 - 10:14 PM.

[Anjian]

Livaria, on 19 April 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

What you're saying, is that we adjust the time limit if the game gets too long from players constantly respawning.
Either you're saying that the entire game is tie-broken in this manner, or it is completely determined by the team score.

Is this correct?

My concern is that by adding this many respawns to the game, it will make the game; time-out more often. The final team score will may end up mattering more than the objectives or even deathmatch. That is, Unless if the objectives themselves somehow contribute more to the games victory.

The reason for overtime is just to make objective wins; to stay objective, and to quicken the rate at which a game will end. If we mix in team peformance with objectives, then way may end up having the same problems since killing the enemy team is still a significant overall factor towards winning. Objectives may be overlooked if they don't matter enough.

If we make objective wins more accessible, we may not even need respawns. But if we do, then sure, it'll do the job. But respawns isn't ideal for everyone's idea of gameplay. You may end up upsetting a lot of people that want to be conservative with their mechs. So I'd be careful with the idea of respawns.

WTF is "adjusting the time limit"? The time limit is what the game developers designed the game with. It doesn't change regardless of the state of the game.

Every online game has and should have a preset time limit, unless it is some kind of a persistent, enduring mode like Planetside 2, which is intended to be perpetual warfare. War Thunder also has "enduring" modes recently, which anyone can hop in, and hop out.

There is no such thing as a "time out", going into overtime. If it happens to be a draw, very rare cases, then its a draw.

When the buzzer sounds, everything ends, period. If the game is close, winning team is determined by points which is determined, thought not only, by how long each time has possession of territorial objectives. In some game modes, kills are added to the score.

If a game (rare) has a preset time limit that is very long, lets say, like 40 minutes, it enters a stage before the time limit ends, where the spawns may stop or it opens direct routes to the enemy base.

Online games are often designed with an understanding that the optimal time for a game is around 20 minutes.

There can never be a game that is too long because the game is terminated right there after a specific set time.

BZZZ.

Its like a round in a boxing match. When the buzzer sounds, everyone stops.

Edited by Anjian, 19 April 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[Livaria]

I'll just give this some time...

[Anjian]

Let's make an example for a sample game, which would be typical of PvP games out there, in fact that of FPS games with unlimited respawns.

Maximum Time Limit = Average in the industry is 20 to 40 minutes. The developer and design of the game sets this limit. If a game is fought right to the end of the time limit, the game terminates no matter what, and the team that holds the controlling point or has more team points, wins the game.

Average game time = This is the average game time, to attain the final winning objective. On the industry average, this is about 15 to 20 minutes. Average game times tend to be lower than maximum time limits.

Stomp = Usually regarded as a game that ends too quickly, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, etc,.

[Livaria]

Pretty sure I know this stuff already.

What do you want from this dicussion?

Edited by Livaria, 19 April 2017 - 11:18 PM.