62 replies to this topic

[R Valentine]

Because all game modes are skirmish in disguise. Even the new one that you're once again "testing" during an event so no one will play it.

Edited by Kiran Yagami, 26 March 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

We'd need Lams and Quadvees first.

[Coolant]

Kiran Yagami, on 26 March 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Because all game modes are skirmish in disguise. Even the new one that you're once again "testing" during an event so no one will play it.

I'd have to disagree about Conquest...

[El Bandito]

Siege mode is different. Scouting is different. Conquest and Escort are different. Only Domination and Assault are played most like Skirmish.

Besides, the majority of the players are most comfortable when shooting at a mech. Anything more complex, and the pugs will lose their minds. Objective rewards being pitiful does not help, as well.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 March 2017 - 05:41 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Hey, I'm here to play Shooty Stompy Robots
That's exactly what I'm going to do


"You will enjoy standing in these Squares, NOT shooting robots"
-that guy

[Snazzy Dragon]

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Hey, I'm here to play Shooty Stompy Robots
That's exactly what I'm going to do


"You will enjoy standing in these Squares, NOT shooting robots"
-that guy

You don't even get rewarded for not shooting stompy robots

why do anything else

cap minigame can be finished after the stompy robots are dead most of the time

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 26 March 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[MattNovaCat]

Play Scouting, collect 7 intell points, reach dropship and escape the planet. 0 (zero) match score cause i never engaged a single enemy mech.

[The Basilisk]

Snazzy Dragon, on 26 March 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

You don't even get rewarded for not shooting stompy robots

why do anything else

cap minigame can be finished after the stompy robots are dead most of the time

Actually its a sick cycle carussell.
PPL like MCGral spaming such stuff over forums and actively boycotting gamemodes by not doing the objectives and jammering about not getting rewarded for doing uber dmg are the reason why each and every game mode can be played with emphasis on killing foes.
Gamemode gets introduced and ppl notice killing other mechs yields little reward but desperately whine and do it anyway and loose game after game (--> even less reward)
So ppl stop playing those game modes because you never know when such guys are in and if you got a chance when those buggers go Leeroy Jenkins screeming "pushpushpush" in the process.

[FalconerGray]

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Hey, I'm here to play Shooty Stompy Robots
That's exactly what I'm going to do


"You will enjoy standing in these Squares, NOT shooting robots"
-that guy

See sig.

[Mole]

The fact of the matter is that PGI is stuck between a rock and a hard place on game modes. Even in FP. When you have no respawns it is always going to be more efficient, easier, and rewarding to just kill the entire enemy team than it is to focus on objectives. I know some of you are going to say "B-but FP has respawns!" Yeah. Four of them. Until there are significantly more respawns than that it is still going to be more efficient to just kill everyone. Only way to make objectives more enticing than just killing everyone is to make objective completion more rewarding than getting all the kills. And if that happens we will start seeing Assault and Conquest games where the teams barely even fight and just rush around for the bases. I've been in games where this happens on a fluke and being in a game where you complete an objective but no fighting happens is seriously not fun. PGI needs respawns if they are going to come up with objective based gameplay that players will not treat as a simple deathmatch. But the community has made their opinion on respawns very clear as a firm "Not only no, but hell no." So what can PGI do, really? Even that nice new Incursion mode that is going to have intricate bases and such will have ultimately boil down to a deathmatch.

Edited by Mole, 26 March 2017 - 02:54 PM.

[R Valentine]

El Bandito, on 26 March 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Invasion is different. Scouting is different. Conquest and Escort are different. Only Domination and Assault are played most like Skirmish. Besides, the majority of the players are most comfortable when shooting at a mech. Anything more complex, and the pugs will lose their minds. Objective rewards being pitiful does not help, as well.

Invasion, skirmish only longer. Scouting, skirmish only longer. Oh boy, I get 4 deaths instead of 1. It's still skirmish. Although all games would be better if they had drop decks. They might play a little different.

[Tarl Cabot]

Grand Mecha Wizard Zelthar, on 26 March 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Adding Respawns to QP for the objective based game modes would fix the "every mode is just skirmish" problem. But, this is pretty much the reaction to the thought of adding repawning to MWO.


I mean I get it, the adding respawns to the game NOW would be really jarring to new and veteran players, but still... I Genuinely believe that it would make the objective modes like conquest, domination and the current assault mode would make the objectives actually matter.

The difference between respawn and no respawn can be seen in the QP modes during FP. There is the need for positioning and re-positioning of assets, being attentive of where your base and spawn points are at since if one of those is overran you die when the dropship arrives. With Conquest the caps can not be ignored, even the dominant teams have lost a few games when they go into deathball, and more so with Dominion.

The question though is with normal quickplay you are locked into a game with a specific mech for a max of 15 minutes, provided the game lasts that long vs FP QP of 25 minutes w/4 mechs locked up. And if QP had 1 respawn vs 3 respawns, new players would likely be utilizing 2 trial mechs. Would there be a weight limit? Or would the single respawn use the same mech? How would that really be setup? How would that affect the quality of play, player frustration on a bad drop, etc? And I know I am not asking enough questions.

For QP w/x-amount of respawns, I do not believe people are asking enough questions on how it would be played out.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 March 2017 - 08:32 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 26 March 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Invasion is different.

Really? Are you telling me groups have stopped farming the enemy for kills and damage to maximize earnings?

[Gas Guzzler]

legatoblues, on 26 March 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

See sig.

Frankly, every MechWarrior game has consisted primarily of shooting other vehicles, mostly mechs. So I fail to see the lack of similarity with MechWarrior.

[Clownwarlord]

how do you get transformers? its not like my awesome can transform into a truck. Although if it could it would be ...

[Anjian]

Tarl Cabot, on 26 March 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

The difference between respawn and no respawn can be seen in the QP modes during FP. There is the need for positioning and re-positioning of assets, being attentive of where your base and spawn points are at since if one of those is overran you die when the dropship arrives. With Conquest the caps can not be ignored, even the dominant teams have lost a few games when they go into deathball, and more so with Dominion.

The question though is with normal quickplay you are locked into a game with a specific mech for a max of 15 minutes, provided the game lasts that long vs FP QP of 25 minutes w/4 mechs locked up. And if QP had 1 respawn vs 3 respawns, new players would likely be utilizing 2 trial mechs. Would there be a weight limit? Or would the single respawn use the same mech? How would that really be setup? How would that affect the quality of play, player frustration on a bad drop, etc? And I know I am not asking enough questions.

For QP w/x-amount of respawns, I do not believe people are asking enough questions on how it would be played out.

There are games out there that work very well, that are highly objective based, and uses a limited or rationed respawn system.

This is a proven system. There is no doubt about that.

The question is how to apply that on MWO. Quite frankly, despite that FW is heavily flawed, many of the best games and times I have had with this game is fought there.

Maybe you need to limit premades --- like some games do for casual play.

Doing the matchmaking is essential.

Allow for clans to make games and invite other clans for a premade vs. premade, like a true league match.

Do you limit to three mechs? Four mechs? Five mechs? Infinite spawns?

What about trial mechs? (I say if a player doesn't have at least three owned mechs, he doesn't get into this game mode.)

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 26 March 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

Really? Are you telling me groups have stopped farming the enemy for kills and damage to maximize earnings?

I am saying that there were plenty of times I had beaten the odds by leading the pugs to focus on the objective, instead of the opponents. And I have lost even more times when the enemy rushed objectives.

[R Valentine]

El Bandito, on 26 March 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

I am saying that there were plenty of times I had beaten the odds by leading the pugs to focus on the objective, instead of the opponents. And I have lost even more times when the enemy rushed objectives.

Matches where people rush the objectives always feel cheap and pointless because they are. You get a whopping 50k c-bills for your objective rushing madness. I make more than that on a loss where I do 400 damage, and 400 ain't much. On Alpine Peaks Domination, many teams literally let the enemy win when they get the sh*t spawn just because the game mode is so piss poor that playing it makes you want to slit your wrists. It lasts a whole 60 seconds and no one cares about the loss. The enemy team got like 25k c-bills. Whoopty doo.

[MechaBattler]

Kiran Yagami, on 26 March 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Because all game modes are skirmish in disguise. Even the new one that you're once again "testing" during an event so no one will play it.

[Redacted]

What changes do you recommend?

Edited by draiocht, 28 March 2017 - 02:47 PM.
insult

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MechaBattler, on 27 March 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

What changes do you recommend?

There aren't any changes he can recommend that don't cheapen gameplay in a no-respawn game mode. Sorry but I came here to play stompy robots, the only thing objectives should be doing in no-respawn is ensuring I have a way to win against a team that is camping off the beaten path.