51 replies to this topic

[Marius Evander]

Why are people trying to work out builds with no details and at least 12 months to wait ?

[Widowmaker1981]

Cadoazreal, on 27 March 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

Why are people trying to work out builds with no details and at least 12 months to wait ?

Because

1) We know crit slots and tonnage, and can make educated guesses about damage and range values, from the source material.

and

2) July is quite a bit closer than 12 months away

[QuantumButler]

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

Seeing as almost all the PPCs are identical...no


Snub Nose being slightly different, Lighter for larger (6 tons 2 Crits VS the PPC 7 tons 3 Crits)
3 LPPCs=HPPC (9 tons 6 Crits VS 10 tons 4 Crits)

LPPC+HPPC=2PPC (13 tons 6 Crits VS 14 tons 6 Crits)
So that last one is all benefit



So, it saves a few tons at best.

A few tons "at best" on a light mech is a huge deal dude.

[Mcgral18]

QuantumButler, on 27 March 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

A few tons "at best" on a light mech is a huge deal dude.

An extra heatsink is far from their issue

Edited by Mcgral18, 27 March 2017 - 02:50 AM.

[Tarogato]

Clanner Scum, on 27 March 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

Yeah there's gonna be alot of mechs that are considered bad currently that'll have a little more pep in their step come july.

Lights can't afford the tonnage to take LFE, so that won't help them. And new weapons won't help them either, because they're still overscaled and forced to run XL engines.

[Bud Crue]

I was actually looking at replacing the 2PPC Panther build with a 2 Snubnosed build just to avoid the min range issue. Then I realized that what others have mentioned: that would be kinda pointless. I don't play my Panthers now, I won't play them just because there is new tech. If I want to run 2 PPCs (of any kind) I'm better off in a Phonenix Hawk which gives me a faster build, better post skills tree (I'm assuming this still comes in) velocity quirks (PHX-B lost 20%, Panther K lost 30%), and ECM with a nearly identical profile. And honestly, I'd still rather just run a Black Jack in any case.

For a group that keeps saying they want to increase mech and build diversity, PGI sure has odd ways of going about it. There are mechs of similar profile at only +/- 5-15 tons difference that can do EVERYTHING these 35 toners can do, but better. Extra armor does not give enough incentive to play the 35 ton lights (and why leave the Firestarter out of this boon?). Cutting their offensive quirks does nothing to incentivize players to take a 35 ton light. Etc.

Hey Paul, remember when you said every mech down to the variant level was to have a role? Revisit that. Look at the 35 toners and tell us what their roles are and how they are supposedly unique. Educate me. Cuz I am just not seeing it. What does a max engine Wolfhound do that a Locust can't do better...other than get hit? Help me understand what the role of the Firestarter is other than to make the other 35 toners look good. Etc.

I bought and played all the Ravens, Jenners, Wolfhounds and Panthers as soon as I was able after starting to play this game. I spent the summer of 2015 learning this game in those mech. I used to play the hell out of these mechs and now they are just not worth it. Now they just sit there and PGI doesn't seem to care. Increasing diversity is your goal? Sorry but I'm just not seeing that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 26 March 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

It's not really fat shaming, but the reality of the rescaling made small mechs the equivalent of "mediums" is why the light queue is what it is. When your optimal choices are ACH or LCT, that means someone effed up and are not willing to admit to it.

Except it's tall, not fat?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'm running an ERPPC on my Panther as it is. I don't think that will change with the new weapons. I think with the Panther's slightly larger size (tall) and slower speed, I would prefer to keep it as a ranged fire support sort of mech.

I suppose it sort of depends on whether the skill tree is in place by then, which could dramatically effect the way the PPC/ERPPC works in the Panther. But as it stands now, I would like to keep the ERPPC in the mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 March 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

I'm running an ERPPC on my Panther as it is. I don't think that will change with the new weapons. I think with the Panther's slightly larger size (tall) and slower speed, I would prefer to keep it as a ranged fire support sort of mech.

I suppose it sort of depends on whether the skill tree is in place by then, which could dramatically effect the way the PPC/ERPPC works in the Panther. But as it stands now, I would like to keep the ERPPC in the mech.

Yeah, largely agree. I do see the SNPPC helping a few builds, but none of them are remotely competitive to begin with. It's simply going to be people who want to add a little flavor to a pet chassis, nothing that's really going to move the meta scale.

My Urbie does look forward to SNPPCs and HMGs though.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I could see the snub nose PPC being useful in a fast hit-fade sort of mech.

For instance, a Cicada might be a good candidate for SNPPC or oddly enough, a Locust. If the Locust keeps the current level of maneuverability and speed, the SNPPC could be dangerous in the hands of a good pilot.

[Bud Crue]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 March 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

I could see the snub nose PPC being useful in a fast hit-fade sort of mech.

For instance, a Cicada might be a good candidate for SNPPC or oddly enough, a Locust. If the Locust keeps the current level of maneuverability and speed, the SNPPC could be dangerous in the hands of a good pilot.

What's the expected cooldown going to be for the SNPPC? The Locust 1V via skills tree nerfs drops its energy cool down to 30%. Assuming that is going to happen. Will the SN be a better choice than the LPL, and to my way of thinking that is all going to come down to cool down rate between the two weapons on that variant.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 27 March 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

What's the expected cooldown going to be for the SNPPC? The Locust 1V via skills tree nerfs drops its energy cool down to 30%. Assuming that is going to happen. Will the SN be a better choice than the LPL, and to my way of thinking that is all going to come down to cool down rate between the two weapons on that variant.

well, with the decel nerfs on the skill tree, one might have to rethink how they Locust to begin with, too. I realize the PTBs insist any change is impossible and will make them DoA.... but I've heard that before. I have faith in our Comp Overlords to distill new methods of cheeze as the need arises.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

Except it's tall, not fat?

Have you seen the Jenners?

The mech is like pure torsos AND PGI decides to make them bigger?

Are you wearing PGI "altered vision" glasses?

[ScrapIron Prime]

I'm really looking forward to pairing light PPCs with SRM.. On several chassis.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bud Crue, on 27 March 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

What's the expected cooldown going to be for the SNPPC? The Locust 1V via skills tree nerfs drops its energy cool down to 30%. Assuming that is going to happen. Will the SN be a better choice than the LPL, and to my way of thinking that is all going to come down to cool down rate between the two weapons on that variant.

The LPLaser does have a short burn time, but with the squirrely-ness of the Locust, a 10 damage FLD might be nice vs a beam. It is hard to say. It depends on heat of course too.

I think it would be worth a try running the SNPPC in anycase.

[Magnus Santini]

Regarding the Jenners, they got a special nail in their nerf-bat hit because, upon rescaling, their "movement profile" was put in a special category so they don't maneuver like a light mech either.

[Weeny Machine]

Clownwarlord, on 26 March 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

I would like to point out the amount of lights in game before the mech re-scale, was small as well. So ultimately no change.

The heydays
You are right, the light mech queue has never been really populate - not even in their heydays.

The whining
This begs the question: why did people make such a fuss about light mechs when being shot out of their mechs ... and still do?
I think the problem is that in the lower tiers people have problem to even hit a barn door. Wait...I see those people even in T3 and even T2.

Add to this the notion that "bigger = better" and you have the whining which led to the current state.

Current state
Speaking of the current state...the light mech class is in a very bad state. The class has suffered a series of direct and indirect nerfs. The worst one, which kicked most chassis in the gully, was the re-sizing. 35t mechs are now so easy to hit that it seems that even the barn-door faction has stopped crying because now even they can hit them.

Add to this scenario 2 more points:

1. huge pin point alphas flying around - one can rip a limp of a light mech. If you are in a Jenner or ACH this means that you lost 1/3-1/2 of your firepower just from one hit yaaaay!

2. Agility of most like mechs is ridiculous low (don't confuse speed with agility). Just compare accel/decl and turn values with most heavies...it is like peeing on the light mech class, e.g. some lights have 10% (if any!) accel/decel while some heavies sit at 40%! Oh, what a surprise that the heavy queue is top nearly always.

3. It is nearly impossible to stay for a meaningful time out of the firing arc of even heavies, heck even some assaults turn like fat ballerinas


Nevertheless the question remains: if light mechs were so OP why didn't their queue reach heavy limits? Well, my guess is that people who can actually hit mechs the size of an ACH had never problems and kept them in check plus people realized that you need to be able to play such a "OP" light mech after all

Edited by Bush Hopper, 27 March 2017 - 10:18 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Do Light PPCs have a min distance? Also what do you think the ghost heat cap will be? I would think at least 4.

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

Please shove as many PPC's on as you want. It'll just make you easier to kill in my Panther ( and I'll laugh while I'm doing it at your foolishness )

[JediPanther]

Any thing that can make a light mech better in this pos game is a good thing. There are a few crazy brave like me who DO like the light mechs(most of them any way, Don't get me started on the rescale of death to lights). I prefer my jenner and locust to the panthers but i'm planing on getting the hero one for my birthday despite not having internet or pc to play the game this year or most of next. Harah for public access wifi for forums.