39 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Or your favorite mech.

Since everyone will have it the technology thinking that it will make mech X all of a sudden meta is a pipe dream. The mechs with the best mobility, speed, hardpoints and hitboxes will still rule.

Sure you might get a week where you figure out somehow to get that Vindicator useful. But it will be quickly brought back to the pack once the min/max crowd figures out what works best (hint, hint- it won't be a Vindicator).

I for one am not expecting the new tech to make this game that much different.

However sized hard points and new tech....now weapon systems matter.

Someday.

[FupDup]

Yes and no.

Having certain things like the MRM40, Heavy PPC, and Heavy LL will certainly make mechs with a single energy or missile hardpoint have at least some kind of use for it.

Won't really change who the top dawgs are, but it should at least be a nice little boost for some.

[Y E O N N E]

Just because everybody technically has it doesn't mean it's equally transformative for them.

Like, if I can run 2x ERPPC + 2x Gauss, the Heavy PPC means nothing to me. It does, however, turn the BNC-3E and upcoming Mauler hero into 'Mechs much more comparable to the KDK (actually, the MAL might run 2x2 anyway, we'll see).

Similarly, Heavy Lasers would do a tremendous amount to improve the Mist Lynx and Shadow Cat, but don't do a whole hell of a lot for an Arctic Cheetah or Storm Crow.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 28 March 2017 - 06:17 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

FupDup, on 28 March 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yes and no.

Having certain things like the MRM40, Heavy PPC, and Heavy LL will certainly make mechs with a single energy or missile hardpoint have at least some kind of use for it.

Won't really change who the top dawgs are, but it should at least be a nice little boost for some.

I get the point, but once we get past theory craft and to reality if the Heavy PPC or LL proves overly effective then of course a mech with one hardpoint will mount it, but there will be some mechs with 3 or 4.

And I wonder how many mechs will die without firing an MRM 40 while waiting for that perfect shot.

[Kubernetes]

I dunno about that. More powerful weaponry can be leveraged for more effectively on smaller mechs with limited hardpoints. A BJ-1 or Enforcer 4R with a RAC5? IV-4 with two RAC5s? That is some scary stuff.

[Khobai]

Quote

Having certain things like the MRM40, Heavy PPC, and Heavy LL will certainly make mechs with a single energy or missile hardpoint have at least some kind of use for it.

I dont really see anyone using a single MRM40. Mixed loadouts are always inferior to boated loadouts. Id youre gonna use MRM40s you might as well use 2-3 of them.

80-120 MRMs will smack someone for 80-120 damage.

[Ted Wayz]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 March 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

Just because everybody technically has it doesn't mean it's equally transformative for them.

Like, if I can run 2x ERPPC + 2x Gauss, the Heavy PPC means nothing to me. It does, however, turn the BNC-3E and upcoming Mauler hero into 'Mechs much more comparable to the KDK (actually, the MAL might run 2x2 anyway, we'll see).

Similarly, Heavy Lasers would do a tremendous amount to improve the Mist Lynx and Shadow Cat, but don't do a whole hell of a lot for an Arctic Cheetah or Storm Crow.

Also good points. But the Cheetah and Crow have other benefits which will keep them the go to. Mainly the points raised above.

The new tech night make the Mist Lynx and Cat interesting to play or play again, but I doubt it will raise their position in meta mechs. Especially if the new tech proves more effective against them than it does for them. Capiche?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Ted Wayz, on 28 March 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

And I wonder how many mechs will die without firing an MRM 40 while waiting for that perfect shot.

Fewer than the SRM brawlers who never got within range at all...

New Tech will not really save any chassis, but it will be fun to use none the less.

[Ted Wayz]

Kubernetes, on 28 March 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

I dunno about that. More powerful weaponry can be leveraged for more effectively on smaller mechs with limited hardpoints. A BJ-1 or Enforcer 4R with a RAC5? IV-4 with two RAC5s? That is some scary stuff.

Windup and face time might not be a good combination for those mechs...

Prosperity Park, on 28 March 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

Fewer than the SRM brawlers who never got within range at all...

New Tech will not really save any chassis, but it will be fun to use none the less.

Absolutely. The first couple months people will be dusting off chassis and regretting the mechs they sold. But eventually the meta drum beat will start again.

[El Bandito]

New tech might make AC10 more useful, if snub-nose, or light PPC's cool down is similar to it. New mid-range PPFLD combo, if you will.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Ted Wayz, on 28 March 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

I get the point, but once we get past theory craft and to reality if the Heavy PPC or LL proves overly effective then of course a mech with one hardpoint will mount it, but there will be some mechs with 3 or 4.

Heat and mitigates that, though, as well as weight/size (for HPPC). Like, sure, you can boat HMLs on a Storm Crow...but you can also roast yourself in an oven at 395 degrees. It winds up such that the number of weapons you can bring and still cool effectively for their range brackets results in a 'Mech that is roughly on par with existing options, just different in flavor (i.e. 5x ERML vs. 4x HML or 2x cLPL+4x cERML vs. 2x cHLL+2xcERML).

Ted Wayz, on 28 March 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

Also good points. But the Cheetah and Crow have other benefits which will keep them the go to. Mainly the points raised above.

The new tech night make the Mist Lynx and Cat interesting to play or play again, but I doubt it will raise their position in meta mechs. Especially if the new tech proves more effective against them than it does for them. Capiche?

True, and we shall see. I think there's definitely a place for a Medium 'Mech that can sprint to 128 kph, jump good™, punch a target with 32-36 damage out to 450 meters, and still be pretty cold. It would be the mega-quirked BJ-1X on steroids.

For the MLX, though, yeah, that one is fairly hopeless unless it gets some more quirks or other direct (rather than emergent) assistance.

[Khobai]

Kitfox seems to benefit the most of the clan lights from the new tech

it can use 3 heavy medium lasers, 4 heavy machine guns, and 3 laser ams

its -15% heat generation quirk will help it with those heavy lasers too

Thats about the only use I see for the new clan tech.... raising the kitfox from completely awful to below average. for the most part the new clan tech is a huge disappointment.

Edited by Khobai, 28 March 2017 - 06:48 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

For me not sure if the l33t mechs will need the new tech. Benefiting becomes moot at that point.

The Crow will still have excellent mobility, excellent hitboxes, and streaks. ATMs, HML and HLL might be interesting but will they really need them? And with their ability to spread damage you better hope your MRM 120 does the job on the first try, otherwise you will be in a world of hurt.

Heavy gauss might even out things on the Assault level between Clan and IS, KDK3 will still probably be the top being able to keep HG mechs at arms length.

[LordNothing]

what it will save is my interest in the game.

[Ted Wayz]

Khobai, on 28 March 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Kitfox seems to benefit the most of the clan lights from the new tech

it gets heavy lasers, heavy machine guns, and laser ams

its -15% heat generation quirk will help it with those heavy lasers too

But less range is not a good look for the Kitfox. Especially with low mobility.

LordNothing, on 28 March 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

what it will save is my interest in the game.

I think what the ASN shows is you can have a fun mech without it being OP. I am hoping new tech brings the same flavor.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Khobai, on 28 March 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Kitfox seems to benefit the most of the clan lights from the new tech

it gets heavy lasers, heavy machine guns, and laser ams

its -15% heat generation quirk will help it with those heavy lasers too

I would only put laser AMS on an all-gauss or autocannon build... My 3 AMS kitfix is hot enough with just 3-4 tons of laser on it... Triple Laser AMS would be *really* hot when combined with lasers. Triple ammo-based AMS is cool as a cucumber.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 28 March 2017 - 06:53 PM.

[DaZur]

Eh... While not perfect parity.

The tech jump will actually allow PGI to approach balancing from a more common ground.

Granted Clan tech will maintain a slight edge but the disparity will be far less noticeable.

[Khobai]

Quote

Triple Laser AMS would be *really* when combined with lasers.

well you dont have to use triple laser ams. you can put on one laser ams and use two ammo ams.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 28 March 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

I dont really see anyone using a single MRM40. Mixed loadouts are always inferior to boated loadouts. Id youre gonna use MRM40s you might as well use 2-3 of them.

80-120 MRMs will smack someone for 80-120 damage.

SRM24 is 48 damage
MRM40 is 40 damage


It's not exactly a bad cost, as SRM24 (without A) is also 12 tons. Just 1 hardpoint instead of 4 (and more than likely, slower speed, more spread)


MRM40 also has the advantage in that it's the same Missiles/ton as the MRM10, both being 3(+1/3) missiles per ton

[Dirus Nigh]

Prosperity Park, on 28 March 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

I would only put laser AMS on an all-gauss or autocannon build... My 3 AMS kitfix is hot enough with just 3-4 tons of laser on it... Triple Laser AMS would be *really* when combined with lasers. Triple ammo-based AMS is cool as a cucumber.

Makes me wonder how PGI will do the heat on the LAMS. Will it just increase the base heat of the mech by a flat number, or will it be a continual build up like the flamer?