58 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

I am recently quite a big fan of LBX and experimenting and testing various builds around them on both Clan and IS mechs. So more power to LBXes.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

I would be for a pellet damage increase, if at the same time it received a cooldown and or spread increase. But by that same measure similar results could be achieved by simply making the lb variants weigh less and take up less space.

PGI never messes with space and weight. NEVER. It is due to some misguided devotion to lore stock builds. Nevermind that less weight and space doesn't affect stock builds at all.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 11:10 PM.

[Xetelian]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

How can a 300m or less build not be called situational? Don't want to get into an argument, but it seems to meet the definitions.

But to just boost the lbx damage seems very dangerous when you consider power creep is a real thing and damage rates are going into silly regions already.

I would be for a pellet damage increase, if at the same time it received a cooldown and or spread increase. But by that same measure similar results could be achieved by simply making the lb variants weigh less and take up less space.

A weapon that covers an ENTIRE Atlas, hits EVERY front component at more than 300m might be too strong if it received a minor boost to its per pellet damage?

Surely you jest.


The only mechs that fear the 4x LBX10 DWF are the cone nose mechs and only if at <300m and that is FOUR of them.

It shoots you from beyond that you can take a dozen hits and still have armor everywhere.

I've done 4xLBX10 DWFs, that is how my Prime is set up, I've done 1450 damage and contributed very little to the fighting. Scraping each mech 2x Arms 10 dmg 2x ST 10 damage CT 10 dmg is 50 damage and that isn't PER SHOT that is after 4x3 shots. I've played with it rather extensively and it just isn't strong even when you boat them. The poor IS LBX10 is so bad that it weighs one more ton and takes up one more crit for the same output as the cLBX10.



They also only get 20 shots per ton of ammo.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

270 meter weapon that can't be mounted on arms and only on Std engine? It should get 40 damage.

Maybe PGI can solve this with -1 slots and -1 ton from the normal ACs, like the LB10x.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 28 March 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

Maybe PGI can solve this with -1 slots and -1 ton from the normal ACs, like the LB10x.

So 13 tons and 10 slots, for 20 spread damage at 270 360 meters? That's a very bad deal. In comparison, Clan LB20X is 12 tons and 9 slots, for 360 meter optimum range--and that weapon is considered mediocre.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 March 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[Gattsus]

I'd be happy with a higher dps (lower cooldown) buff

he's been tweeted
https://twitter.com/...964417413681158

[Shifty McSwift]

Xetelian, on 28 March 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

A weapon that covers an ENTIRE Atlas, hits EVERY front component at more than 300m might be too strong if it received a minor boost to its per pellet damage?

Surely you jest.


The only mechs that fear the 4x LBX10 DWF are the cone nose mechs and only if at <300m and that is FOUR of them.

It shoots you from beyond that you can take a dozen hits and still have armor everywhere.

I've done 4xLBX10 DWFs, that is how my Prime is set up, I've done 1450 damage and contributed very little to the fighting. Scraping each mech 2x Arms 10 dmg 2x ST 10 damage CT 10 dmg is 50 damage and that isn't PER SHOT that is after 4x3 shots. I've played with it rather extensively and it just isn't strong even when you boat them. The poor IS LBX10 is so bad that it weighs one more ton and takes up one more crit for the same output as the cLBX10.



They also only get 20 shots per ton of ammo.

A "minor boost" per pellet adds up fast overall and only makes close range shots more valuable, plus how is a "minor boost" going to stop that damage ending up all over the place at long ranges like you suggest it does? Plus not everyone is an atlas, that spread is actually beneficial in some cases (less than PP damage situaltions, but nonetheless).

It seems like you want to ask for the spread to be tightened, but at the same time that they are somehow simultaneously more like a shotgun while dealing more damage.

And can someone verify the ranges for realsies here, last time I shot an lbx10 the spread was really quite low, it only widens out to "atlas size" at max range, did they change it up or is there some hyperbole floating around? Lbx20 is a different story of course but is the 10 that bad on spread now?

[Xetelian]

Shifty McSwift, on 29 March 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

A "minor boost" per pellet adds up fast overall and only makes close range shots more valuable, plus how is a "minor boost" going to stop that damage ending up all over the place at long ranges like you suggest it does? Plus not everyone is an atlas, that spread is actually beneficial in some cases (less than PP damage situaltions, but nonetheless).

It seems like you want to ask for the spread to be tightened, but at the same time that they are somehow simultaneously more like a shotgun while dealing more damage.

And can someone verify the ranges for realsies here, last time I shot an lbx10 the spread was really quite low, it only widens out to "atlas size" at max range, did they change it up or is there some hyperbole floating around? Lbx20 is a different story of course but is the 10 that bad on spread now?

Never suggested that the raising of damage per pellet would lessen the spread.

It doesn't take very much distance for the spread to widen to the size of the entire front of an assault mech,


If they're so great why don't more people run 4xLBX10 DWFs? Why don't more people run them in general?

Why aren't there 4xLBX10 KDK 3s everywhere?

You're overestimating its damage potential if I'm under estimating it and using hyperbole.

[Shifty McSwift]

I'm not saying they are "so great", more that I think that buffing damage is not the way to go, unless it is getting some kind of nerf distinction like an increased cooldown or spread, which does make it more shotgun like in nature.

But instead of that at all I would first just vote for either making it lighter/smaller, or decreasing spread rates, or increased velocity, or range, almost anything over boosting the damage.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 29 March 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

And can someone verify the ranges for realsies here, last time I shot an lbx10 the spread was really quite low, it only widens out to "atlas size" at max range, did they change it up or is there some hyperbole floating around? Lbx20 is a different story of course but is the 10 that bad on spread now?

If you are referring to individual torso hits, LB10X starts to hit separate components on an Atlas (which has one of the bigges hitboxes), at around 200 meters. On many other mechs, it will require even closer range.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 March 2017 - 12:49 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Like if they had a longer optimal range than ac10s, higher velocity, better spread than they do now, but the max range and damage dropoff rates rates were lessened, around the same distance where the spread goes wild.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 29 March 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

If you are referring to individual torso hits, LB10X starts to hit separate components on an Atlas (which has one of the bigges hitboxes), at around 200 meters. On many other mechs, it will require even closer range.

Hmm, maybe they should start patterning it on SRM spread?

[J0anna]

While more damage would work, so would reducing the cooldown. I remember using the cent with the 50% cooldown quirk and really liking it. A flat 40% buff for clans LBX family and a 50% buff for IS (both with corresponding reduction in heat) would enable the weapon to be effective without quirks.

[Shifty McSwift]

I mean I would be fine if the damage would get boosted, it isn't going to make me ragequit, I just fear powercreep for good reason, and slowly buffing damage rates is the most direct form of it.

Lower cooldown could be interesting, but it probably still wouldnt sync up enough with srms and it would make little difference to the min max crew (like how the heat difference is nothing to them) as it doesn't change that alpha potential any.

[Xetelian]

Shifty McSwift, on 29 March 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

Like if they had a longer optimal range than ac10s, higher velocity, better spread than they do now, but the max range and damage dropoff rates rates were lessened, around the same distance where the spread goes wild.

Spread 'goes wild' pretty damn fast. You can't get it all in one Atlas CT at 200m according to Bandito.

So the spread needs to be tightened up A LOT or they need to raise the damage. Cool-down might help but maximum range will not. At max range you're so far spread that you're usually hitting arms on both sides.

[Bud Crue]

What was it a year...before PGI gave the damn thing the same ammo count as an AC10. To them that was a buff. Making the weapons outright better than it is, I just can't see them doing. They are wedded to their "internally established target values" and if the weapon hasn't been changed since the ammo change, I don't expect that their "data" suggests a change is warranted.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

So 13 tons and 10 slots, for 20 spread damage at 270 meters? That's a very bad deal. In comparison, Clan LB20X is 12 tons and 9 slots, for 360 meter optimum range--and that weapon is considered mediocre.

Well, it follows the trend, and it's less mediocre than it's lore form. If anything, the LB20X should have 360m effective range, since LB10X has 540m when AC10 only has 450m.

Not to mention that King Crab 005 "upgraded" LB20Xs in 3062, so unless PGI is in to crit-splitting, they should shrink it so it fit the King Crab's arm -- or not put 005 in the game at all like the rest of the tech, not that i don't want 005.

Hows about we do those resizing, AND make it deal 1.2 damage/pellet and have it's effective range at 360m too? Also tighten the spread into SRM-Artemis pattern. Seems a pretty good deal, at least to me anyways.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 29 March 2017 - 04:53 AM.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 29 March 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

Well, it follows the trend, and it's less mediocre than it's lore form. If anything, the LB20X should have 360m effective range, since LB10X has 540m when AC10 only has 450m.

Not to mention that King Crab 005 "upgraded" LB20Xs in 3062, so unless PGI is in to crit-splitting, they should shrink it so it fit the King Crab's arm -- or not put 005 in the game at all like the rest of the tech, not that i don't want 005.

Hows about we do those resizing, AND make it deal 1.2 damage/pellet and have it's effective range at 360m too? Also tighten the spread into SRM-Artemis pattern. Seems a pretty good deal, at least to me anyways.

Actually, when I looked in Sarna, IS LB20X does reach 360 optimum range, so that part at least is the same as Clan one. As for damage buff to 1.2, well, any damage buff is needed for the LBX. I was thinking of buffing all Clan LBX pellets to 1.2 (Clan ones need love too), and all IS pellets to 1.5 to account for greater weight and slot requirements. And resizing is also needed.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 March 2017 - 05:02 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Well if they buff then they should probably shift the heat around to make them run hotter than AC, particularly if the CD goes up, in that case their stats could easily be played with a bit more.

[Coolant]

i love the lbx...ive started putting it on multiple builds. i think the main thing is that it is slightly cooler than the ac10. projectile speed is faster too. i wish on the clan side the Targeting Computer buffed lbx speed. But, I agree with OP, and I'm all for buffing it since I use it regularly already.

Oh how I wish it would knock mechs over like it did in MW4:Mercs!

Edited by Coolant, 29 March 2017 - 07:10 AM.