270 replies to this topic

[CDaemon04]

Eternal Rage, on 30 March 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

I wish PGI would show some respect to EU customers, since u already post 3 different timezones PGI could also post a CET time maybe? or is that too much work?

may i assist with that request.
favorite and set as homepage ==> https://mwomercs.com/clock

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TercieI, on 30 March 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

The best players are the best players. The meta has changed several times, a couple times very significantly. It hasn't suddenly made others players replace the best players. One of the things that makes the best players the best is the ability to adapt to whatever they're given, both in matches and in the mechlab (a part of this game whether you like it or not).

This fact is lost on too many potatoes. All of them seem to think that they rely on a style of play as a crutch rather than accept the fact that these players are good because they understand how to play regardless of what mech they are playing or what weapons they are using.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 30 March 2017 - 09:26 AM.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 March 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

This fact is lost on too many potatoes. All of them seem to think that they rely on a style of play as a crutch rather than accept the fact that these players are good because they understand how to play regardless of what mech they are playing or what weapons they are using.

Let's be fair.. some people do that strictly that way. However, I think the majority (of the minority that is comp) actually tries to work at their craft.

It's just that people really don't understand the basics before they complain about the complexities.

[TercieI]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 March 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

This fact is lost on too many potatoes. All of them seem to think that they rely on a style of play as a crutch rather than accept the fact that these players are good because they understand how to play regardless of what mech they are playing or what weapons they are using.

It's hard for some people to admit others are just better at some things and it's not because of exploits, cheats or loopholes. And it's too bad, because believing it is actually the first step to getting better yourself.

[0111101]

MookieDog, on 30 March 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

The best thing that could ever happen to comp play: Give all of the players stock IS mechs, all the same type and let them duke it out. Thats how you really measure skill. No ER PPC -Gauss meta BS. No UAC dakka spam. No poptarting.

I would love to hear the whining if that were to happen. All of the Tier I teams who cant play outside of clan mechs would pull from the tournament and would show their true skills or lack there of.

I encourage you to watch Proton's Twitch stream sometime in the near future. He plays in just about whatever build his viewers suggest to him and still pulls top scores, so, about that argument you're making...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

0111101, on 30 March 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

I encourage you to watch Proton's Twitch stream sometime in the near future. He plays in just about whatever build his viewers suggest to him and still pulls top scores, so, about that argument you're making...

Including an LRM80 Supernova XD

[DAYLEET]

Mcgral18, on 29 March 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Balance is integral to the comp scene
They kinda go hand in hand...like if you see the same 4 chassis' in every single match which is played...some others might need buffs


Same goes for weapons. All those isSLs we see in action...

It would make a lot more sense to nerf those 4 chassis rather than buff the remaining 400 hundreds. Same with weapons.

[Crockdaddy]

Edward Hazen, on 29 March 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

True, comp can only exist because the base MWO game exists. The main focus should be non-comp CW and QP, although I do believe that comp has it's place in bringing attention to MWO.

Not to quibble here but Comp play has well over 1000 active players. They are folks who generally pay for this game. Buy mechpacks, premium time, camos etc. Guys who organize units and largely the same group who used to lead factions before Faction Play became irrelevant.

At last count 73 Teams (just in MRBC)... which likely average 15 players per team.
Over

1000 Players (most likely whale like customers whom are active players not including their associated friends and non-comp unit mates whom often help out too)

Many of you act like Comp play is some marginal thing.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DAYLEET, on 30 March 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

It would make a lot more sense to nerf those 4 chassis rather than buff the remaining 400 hundreds. Same with weapons.

It depends on the desired power level. If TTK were fine when playing with only those 4 chassis, then it makes sense to buff those 400, especially if you are avoiding red quirks like PGI is (since a lot of the top Clan mechs have little to not quirks).

[Deathlike]

TercieI, on 30 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

It's hard for some people to admit others are just better at some things and it's not because of exploits, cheats or loopholes. And it's too bad, because believing it is actually the first step to getting better yourself.

For some people, the natural reaction is that "something is wrong, find the reason why (it isn't my fault)".

Others are more receptive and ask "why am I doing wrong, and how do I correct it?".

Some people at least need to learn everything they can before coming to a conclusion.

[TercieI]

Deathlike, on 30 March 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

For some people, the natural reaction is that "something is wrong, find the reason why (it isn't my fault)".

Others are more receptive and ask "why am I doing wrong, and how do I correct it?".

Some people at least need to learn everything they can before coming to a conclusion.

2/3 approaches will help you.

And we're not just talking about MWO here.

[Lukoi Banacek]

MookieDog, on 30 March 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

The best thing that could ever happen to comp play: Give all of the players stock IS mechs, all the same type and let them duke it out. Thats how you really measure skill. No ER PPC -Gauss meta BS. No UAC dakka spam. No poptarting.

I would love to hear the whining if that were to happen. All of the Tier I teams who cant play outside of clan mechs would pull from the tournament and would show their true skills or lack there of.

Such a silly, myopic and uneducated thing to say really.

If this game or its comp scene were somehow reduced to stock chassis only, dont you think the competitive players would figure out the best mechs, in the best roles and learn to pilot them accordingly? When stock mech mondays and similatlr events first emerged, people swiftly identified which mechs worked best and SMM and similar crews further defined mechs by their tech levels to further control balance.

No matter the game, there will always be a competitive subset that tries to figure what works best in whatever role or situation, every time. That you equate stock build frankenmechs with skill, in spite of the precision aim, situational awareness and movement utillizing cover - all in conjunction with some sense of teamwork - that the "meta" requires ro be successful simply illustrates your woeful understanding of this game.

[Edward Hazen]

TercieI, on 30 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

It's hard for some people to admit others are just better at some things and it's not because of exploits, cheats or loopholes. And it's too bad, because believing it is actually the first step to getting better yourself.

This is true, but many of the "better" players strip down their graphics in the user.cfg to remove ground clutter, environmental effects, to flatten building textures etc so they can see targets from further and shoot through areas that would normally be visually blocked by effects. Again, as I said before, making your game look like MW2 is not necessarily against the TOS, but it is unsportsmanlike.


Don't tell me that this doesn't happen, there is a guide showing how to do it on NGNG.

Edited by Edward Hazen, 30 March 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Edward Hazen, on 30 March 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Again, as I said before, making your game look like MW2 is not necessarily against the TOS, but it is unsportsmanlike.

Don't tell me that this doesn't happen, there is a guide showing how to do it on NGNG.

It is interesting that you phrase your opinion like a fact.

Why is it unsportsmanlike in your opinion?

I ask because imo, that same slippery slope applies to macros that mimic what you can do manually, increasing the gamma, customizing your mech to something other than stock, using a better video card than me, splurging on high speed fiber optic cable and practicing more in game than I have time to do so.

[TercieI]

Edward Hazen, on 30 March 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

This is true, but many of the "better" players strip down their graphics in the user.cfg to remove ground clutter, environmental effects, to flatten building textures etc so they can see targets from further and shoot through areas that would normally be visually blocked by effects. Again, as I said before, making your game look like MW2 is not necessarily against the TOS, but it is unsportsmanlike.


Don't tell me that this doesn't happen, there is a guide showing how to do it on NGNG.

You say "unsportsmanlike," I say "competitive." I have no use for unwritten rules. When playing to win, I play to win and have no problem with my opponents doing the same. (The graphics stuff is not nearly as extreme as you make out FWIW) <shrug>

[MookieDog]

Lukoi Banacek, on 30 March 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

Such a silly, myopic and uneducated thing to say really.

If this game or its comp scene were somehow reduced to stock chassis only, dont you think the competitive players would figure out the best mechs, in the best roles and learn to pilot them accordingly? When stock mech mondays and similatlr events first emerged, people swiftly identified which mechs worked best and SMM and similar crews further defined mechs by their tech levels to further control balance.

No matter the game, there will always be a competitive subset that tries to figure what works best in whatever role or situation, every time. That you equate stock build frankenmechs with skill, in spite of the precision aim, situational awareness and movement utillizing cover - all in conjunction with some sense of teamwork - that the "meta" requires ro be successful simply illustrates your woeful understanding of this game.

Well, since the majority of the people who replied to my post are all carrying either clan or merc clan tags your arguments are pretty much invalid. And I doubt you will read past this point. Humor me and read my whole post...

Clan tech = easy button. Its not hard to put up good numbers in super tech against T5 players.

What I was getting at was, level the playing field. Dont even give the comp teams the ability to chose mechs. There are your eight griffins, bushwackers, or whatever, and PGI could even have a new previously unreleased mech for the final fight. Instead of: wow Kodiak-3's, Hunchbacks, Grasshoppers, and Arctic Cheeters.

If the truly best players are in fact the best, which I do not claim to be part of, then they should be able to perform levels above average pilots, like me, in the exact same chassis. Same chassis, same quirks, same modules: be it IS or clan.

Thats my point and I am sticking to it.

[BLOOD WOLF]

why are people still talking about balance?

InnerSphereNews, on 29 March 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Are you interested in the competitive scene, whether that be the official MechWarrior Online World Championship, or any of the great community-run leagues and tournaments?

Nowhere does this talk about game balance, not players,not mechs. This is just talking about the future of competitive mechwarrior online.

nobody cares about anyones opinion about the best mechs, or whats meta. Can we get back to talking about how to improve the competitive scene

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 30 March 2017 - 12:44 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

MookieDog, on 30 March 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Well, since the majority of the people who replied to my post are all carrying either clan or merc clan tags your arguments are pretty much invalid. And I doubt you will read past this point. Humor me and read my whole post...

Clan tech = easy button. Its not hard to put up good numbers in super tech against T5 players.

What I was getting at was, level the playing field. Dont even give the comp teams the ability to chose mechs. There are your eight griffins, bushwackers, or whatever, and PGI could even have a new previously unreleased mech for the final fight. Instead of: wow Kodiak-3's, Hunchbacks, Grasshoppers, and Arctic Cheeters.

If the truly best players are in fact the best, which I do not claim to be part of, then they should be able to perform levels above average pilots, like me, in the exact same chassis. Same chassis, same quirks, same modules: be it IS or clan.

Thats my point and I am sticking to it.

We use IS mechs as well as Clan fairly routinely and we have been tagged IS as well as Clan quite a bit. That I carry a Clan tag now seems to mean you can dismiss my statements out of hand, simply demonstrates the weakness of your arguments here, much like any other ad hominem attack would.


The playing field IS level, which is my point. Yoi have the opportunity to use all of the same tools that anyone else has. And specific to competitive play, the theme of this thread, you typically arent seeing T1 units in Clan monster mechs paired against T5's in stock IS mechs with a limp as your comments would imply. Competitive leagues use seeding, swiss pairings and other methods to try and marry up people of relatively similar skill levels to create a competitive experience. If it was all just seal clubbing the competitive scene would be dying off, not growing as it has been.

If ypu want to create an 8v8 bushwacker league to create your tunnel-vision view of fariness and skill, by all means do so. I wager if you can attract enough people for a tournament of such design you will see the same trends emerge. A meta will be ferreted out by the tryhards, the same faces will win the matches and those that refuse to adapt and learn will find some new reason to blame ithers for their failings.

[Edward Hazen]

Lukoi Banacek, on 30 March 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

It is interesting that you phrase your opinion like a fact.

Why is it unsportsmanlike in your opinion?

I ask because imo, that same slippery slope applies to macros that mimic what you can do manually, increasing the gamma, customizing your mech to something other than stock, using a better video card than me, splurging on high speed fiber optic cable and practicing more in game than I have time to do so.

To me it is unsportsmanlike because you are modifying the game in a way that it was not intended in order to ignore obstacles that are purposely put into the game to make it more challenging to maintain line of sight to your target. And yes, I feel the same way about using macros to push buttons for you or execute commands for you faster than you can physically do yourself. Macros compensate for a lack of skill or ability. Isn't the point of competing to find out who is the most skilled using their natural ability and not who uses the most crutches to compensate for a lack there of?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Edward Hazen, on 30 March 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

To me it is unsportsmanlike because you are modifying the game in a way that it was not intended in order to ignore obstacles that are purposely put into the game to make it more challenging to maintain line of sight to your target. And yes, I feel the same way about using macros to push buttons for you or execute commands for you faster than you can physically do yourself. Macros compensate for a lack of skill or ability. Isn't the point of competing to find out who is the most skilled using their natural ability and not who uses the most crutches to compensate for a lack there of?

Some might argue that the graphics tuning is to reduce the graphics clutter, as you dont maintain LOS for shooting. And macros dont necessarily compensate for a lack of ability, they merely automate the routine. If they accomplished something ypu cannot actually do, itd violate the TOS. So I guess opinions vary on this

I dont use either of your mentioned items but dont begrudge those who do. If its legal per PGI, and everyone can do it, its no different to me than customizing your mech.

edited to remove weird double posting.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 30 March 2017 - 03:22 PM.