32 replies to this topic

[Doktorbike]

So again Streak & LRM players can't get locks?? Same as escort mode, no locks & I really mean, NO locks(even with BAP & ECM on counter). When enemy's or in this case structures are within the bubble of 'ECM'(maybe it's Uber ECM??) this not only affects the players that boat but also the players who use them amongst other weapon systems & it sucks!! Surely if a team can get a scout into enemy territory, keep him hidden & lock targets they deserve to be able to fire as that scout has more than likely worked very hard to get that lock & to hold it. The Team should be responsible for providing ECM etc, not the map

[Jman5]

InnerSphereNews, on 31 March 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Rewards and Match Score
• Performing Mission Objective actions will provide greater amounts of C-Bills and Experience.
• Performing Mission Objective actions will now contribute significantly to your Match Score.



Incursion Mission Objectives include:[indent]• Retrieving a Fuel Cell

• Installing a Fuel Cell
• Destroying an Enemy Base Element (MFB or Tower)
• Destroying an Enemy 'Mech while they're carrying a Fuel Cell[/indent]

Really happy to hear this.

One small suggestion. You may want to consider lumping the Fuel Cell retrieval reward into the installation reward. If the reward is significant enough, you might wind up with people collecting the fuel cells for the points, with no intention of actually turning them in. Might be a non-issue, but it's something to consider.

[Cy Mitchell]

Happy to see all the changes that are being made based on tester feedback. I like the looks of everything except I still feel that the duration of the fuel cells powering the towers should have been increased or that Mechs should have been able to carry multiple fuel cells. We will see how the mode plays. I am guessing that if either of these changes need to be made in the future, they will be easy fixes to make.

I am really looking forward to trying this out on the LIVE server. Now, hopefully there will be a new map coming in our not too distant MWO future.

EDIT: Please apply the increased objective rewards to all the non-Skirmish modes such as Escort, Conquest, Domination and Assault.

Edited by Rampage, 31 March 2017 - 08:29 PM.

[Tesunie]

PraetorGix, on 31 March 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

April Patch update: We're about to give you MRMs and ATMs; but those along with lurms are going to be on our development blacklist, they'll be useless except on tier 7 and 6 and you will feel even dumber for using them than you do now.
Oh but the next mech pack will have the Longbow and Naga.

Sincerely, PGI.

Oh. LRMs are able to be played as they are right now. They probably could use some changes, but they certainly are not impossible either. And they can be played at any play level, given enough effort and skill.

However, I am concerned as to what the state of LRMs will become once MRMs are in the game. The only advantage LRMs are likely to maintain (unless something gets changed/buffed) is their ability for indirect fire. Otherwise, MRMs are very likely to replace LRMs...

CadoAzazel, on 31 March 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

So please ignore the LURMTATERS who dont understand buildings block lurms and keep modes that encourage them to learn other weapons.

So, you suggest a game mode that severely hinders several weapons in the game, because you want them to "lrn2aim"?

Maybe we should come to a game mode where the only effective weapon are LRMs. Lots of places you can't shoot direct weapons from, but only LRMs will be able to operate freely. Then we can just negate all the other weapons. Sounds just as fair, right?

I'm not asking for LRMs to be over powered, but I do believe ECM has been needing a change for a long time. Adding it into game modes as a mechanic just is starting to feel "unfair". (And no, I'm not actually suggesting a game mode that renders direct fire weapons useless. It's just an example.)

Rampage, on 31 March 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

EDIT: Please apply the increased objective rewards to all the non-Skirmish modes such as Escort, Conquest, Domination and Assault.

YES.
PLEASE!

(Although, Conquest actually does give your whole team an overall good reward for playing to the game mode. It just doesn't reflect on your in game stats as a match score. Sad to see a player cap so many points, and yet have a low match score despite giving their team the win.)

[Marius Evander]

Tesunie, on 31 March 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

Maybe we should come to a game mode where the only effective weapon are LRMs. Lots of places you can't shoot direct weapons from, but only LRMs will be able to operate freely. Then we can just negate all the other weapons. Sounds just as fair, right?

I'm not asking for LRMs to be over powered, but I do believe ECM has been needing a change for a long time. Adding it into game modes as a mechanic just is starting to feel "unfair". (And no, I'm not actually suggesting a game mode that renders direct fire weapons useless. It's just an example.)

A map where each team starts in a crater you cant walk out of, where jump jets and ecm dont work 600-1000 meters from each other and both teams have permanant Scanner Sweep sounds like what yall tater lurmers want. (and i'd enjoy doing that like .... 5 times... would b hilarious to see the sky blackened by 24 lurmers), but not very effective.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 31 March 2017 - 09:28 PM.

[Tesunie]

Cadoazreal, on 31 March 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

A map where each team starts in a crater you cant walk out of, where jump jets and ecm dont work 600-1000 meters from each other and both teams have permanant Scanner Sweep sounds like what yall tater lurmers want. (and i'd enjoy doing that like .... 5 times... would b hilarious to see the sky blackened by 24 lurmers), but not very effective.

I wouldn't enjoy it as actual game play, but it would certainly be humorous for a match or two. But... no challenge.

Oh, and you forgot. Somehow whatever is taking down ECM is also disabling your AMS systems.

I do hope that if you ever dropped with me (and I had LRMs), you'd reconsider if I was a Taterlurmer... I don't think you will consider me as one if you saw the way I used LRMs.

Edit: Fixed a word missing a letter.

Edited by Tesunie, 01 April 2017 - 05:02 AM.

[Marius Evander]

Tesunie, on 01 April 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

I do hope that if you ever dropped with me (and I had LRMs), you'd reconsider if I was a Taterlurmer... I don't think you will consider me as one if you saw the way I used LRMs.

I have a AWS-8R , had a ebon jag 4xLRM15 for a while, have a MDD 4xLRM15 and occasionally turn my hbk-IIC-(b?) into a Lurm boat.

I can appreciate their value on Polar, Alpine and Boreal defence WITH the +advanced target decay +3seconds lock time module and reduced cooldown module (the problem is 99% or lurmers dont use those 2 modules)

I consider them OP or Polar/boreal defence with 6+ lurmers and 2-1 VERY SKILLED narcers but that doesnt happen very often.

Every other map has too much cover.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 01 April 2017 - 03:57 PM.

[snipercam7]

I enjoy boating LRMs, more than pretty much any other weapon (though 6x UAC5 Dakka Wolf will always hold a special place in my heart). Why is there such open hostility to a weapon type? In one breath you imply that they take less or no skill, and then talk about maps having "too much cover". That simply means picking your targets, and picking your moments, and direct-firing alongside your team on a push.

[Marius Evander]

They take no skill where there decent (polar) and your whole team will be dead before you can do anything decent with them on the maps with cover. Canyon network. BNC-3M(c) vs a Lrm Stalker , lrm Catapult and lrm Trebuchet, they managed to take off the BNC's 2 Shield arms and most of its shoulder armor and some of its shoulder structure before all 3 are dead, their damage numbers would have been great for killing those 2 arms and that shoulder armor, but guess what. There all dead and the BNC which probably did less total damage but aimed is still firing all its guns.

[Tesunie]

Cadoazreal, on 01 April 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

Every other map has too much cover.

I find that... not true.

I've used them under the docks in Crimson. I've used them in the basement on HPG. Then again, with my LRM mechs, I'm also bold enough to join in the tunnel if I have to. One of the beauties of not packing just LRMs on my mechs. I'm not afraid to go anywhere.

Then again, I'm crazy and will LRM just about everywhere. It just takes more effort and skill to pull it off on other maps. It's also very possible to avoid LRMs on those maps you mentioned as well, you just have to know where the cover is from the angle of the LRM flight paths.

It's all in how you use them and knowing your missile arcs, enemy positions, lay of the terrain around yourself, your target and sometimes even above you along the arc of the path (Tourmaline).

snipercam7, on 03 April 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

I enjoy boating LRMs, more than pretty much any other weapon (though 6x UAC5 Dakka Wolf will always hold a special place in my heart). Why is there such open hostility to a weapon type? In one breath you imply that they take less or no skill, and then talk about maps having "too much cover". That simply means picking your targets, and picking your moments, and direct-firing alongside your team on a push.

LRMs are a utility weapon. They have great flexibility, but also do a lot of damage spread.

They are considered skill-less weapons by some people (in my opinion, those not in the know) because "anyone can hide out back and lob them at the little red square after getting a lock" (AKA: they are homing weapons and require little to no aiming skills). In some aspects, they are correct. One can do rather well with LRMs and be rather low on skills in this game.

However, the exact counter statement is also true at the same time, where LRMs can require immense skill to use well, effectively and in all the little ways that they can work. You have to just have a different set of skills for LRM use compared to other weapons. Timing, positioning, arcs, "fire for effect" (suppression fire), have to know travel speeds and distances (will it hit?), etc.


The same skill-less remark, for the record, has actually been tossed at the direct fire crowd as well before. "It's just point and click to deal damage, no skill needed". Hate to say it, but it can be correct as well depending upon perspective and how literally you take it. My opinion is that each are just as skill-less or as skillful as one self deems, depending upon how much they put into it and the desired results. Point and click vs lock and click. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and each has different skills needed to truly be effective.


A lot of people placed hate in LRMs because "they killed me and I couldn't see them to shoot them" mentality. Some, because they spread damage. Others, because they don't "require" aiming. Whatever their reason is, they tend to throw their hate at anyone who uses LRMs typically, just because they can. (You might enjoy another thread I co-made.)

Cadoazreal, on 03 April 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

They take no skill where there decent (polar) and your whole team will be dead before you can do anything decent with them on the maps with cover. Canyon network. BNC-3M(c) vs a Lrm Stalker , lrm Catapult and lrm Trebuchet, they managed to take off the BNC's 2 Shield arms and most of its shoulder armor and some of its shoulder structure before all 3 are dead, their damage numbers would have been great for killing those 2 arms and that shoulder armor, but guess what. There all dead and the BNC which probably did less total damage but aimed is still firing all its guns.

Sounds like those LRM mechs probably needed some alternative weapons, besides just LRMs on them. The Treb probably should have ran and did the LRM skirmisher tactics to be effective, and the Stalker could have easily fit 4 MLs or even 2 (ER)LLs to defend itself with. Same with the Cat.

As much as I love LRMs, I'm not going to be blind to their weaknesses. They have their vulnerabilities, and me being whom I am, I don't like having moments where I can be completely useless. So I never boat only LRMs, which may be the difference between myself and many other LRM users.


However, don't misread this. There are places for boats (of any kind) and specialized builds. Mixed/balanced builds have a strength as well as specialized/focused builds. It's a matter of playing each build type to their strengths, and not their weaknesses.

Focused builds (such as a pure LRM mech) want to always push to wherever their strengths are. They want to engage where they can be the most powerful.

A Balanced build however, is the opposite (and I tend to find takes more skill to use well). This style of build wants to engage the enemy where they happen to be weakest, permitting them to "gain the edge" over their opponent. Fighting an SRM brawler? Stay outside SRM ranges and use the longer ranged weapons on them. Find someone who is packing LRMs? Close into 180m, and take them apart with your close range weapons. Another strength of a balanced build (which is why this would help LRM focused builds) is the ability to "never be useless". You may be "less powerful", but never useless. And, even if you cause only five points of damage when in your weaker position, it's still five more points of damage that otherwise wouldn't have happened and may be the damage needed to drop or help drop a target (right then or even later down the match).


In your example, I'd say several failures happened.
1. People boated those LRMs, and tried to hide out back (my guess). The Banshee probably charged them, and no allies came to help.
2. Those LRM mechs probably "forgot" any backup weapons. So, instead of being able to deal some damage to more critical locations and/or take advantage of holes opened by their LRMs, they could only depend upon the scatter of the LRMs to hit the right spots, which it wont always do.
3. They probably just tried to back up, and did not spread out. The Treb alone should have been able to escape, as they are rather speedy mechs. If they had maintained 180+m spread on themselves, while one was charged the other two could have continued to bombard. Then, when the Banshee turned to deal with one of the last two, he would be exposing his back to the other one... Seems like position may have been an issue here.
4. I'm going to suspect that the LRMs were being used indirectly only, until the "wild" Banshee appeared. This, if it was done, is one of the most common, and least effective, ways of using LRMs. (But it can work, so it does have it's place.)

Choices where made, and so where mistakes. Part of playing the game.

[WolvesX]

No locks is terrible!

I hate it in Escort!

[Holy Jackson]

What do tag lasers do in this mode?

I can honestly say I've never tried to use tag lrms in escort. Perhaps I'll try that tonight. I just don't know what those towers do when you use a tag.

Anyway, If tag works, then put a damn tag on your damn missile boat, get your own locks, and do some work. If it doesn't then it needs to be fixed.

Edited by Holy Jackson, 04 April 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Xaat Xuun]

TAG works