85 replies to this topic

[Atlas3060]

CaveMan, on 20 December 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

I love the idea that was suggested upthread for "smart minis" with RFID embedded in the base, or better yet, detachable bases that have small flash chips in them that can be uploaded with stats and so on, and have the game do all the number-crunching electronically. That'd be the golden goose: you have the speed and ease of MegaMek with the full tabletop experience.

Who gets the permissions to upload info into the chips? Will the player get the ability? If not how is this any different than the plastic clix stuff we already dealt with?

[CaveMan]

That's the point, yeah. The chip just stores a record sheet in electronic format, which you can upload from any PC. Supports any unit you want to upload to it, including customs. There could even be a validation routine built into whatever it is that's reading the chips to prevent people using illegal designs.

The bases can be fitted to any official miniature using a snap connector, so you'd sell the bases in "blister packs" of 4 which would be universal.

[Drogo-MA]

WotC started as a small business and worked from the ground up. They got out there to the small gaming communities and built on a fantastic idea. Then the cash started rolling in and voila the snowball grew into an avalanche. CGL still continues to make mistakes. Explain why they didn't have enough box sets to continue on after the release earlier this year. Why not find companies in the US that could have worked just as well but decided to go overseas. With the market the way it is companies would have bent over backwards to have those contracts. As for the minatures what the hell do you think Battletech is. It is based on miniatures and the game is around it. Why do you think they have 3 levels of rules.....all for ease of gameplay with the miniatures. Seriously, why do you think there is a Ironwind metals link on the Battletech website? They are all owned or related to each other. Why does Ironwind have release dates that coordinate with releases of the latest TRO? WHY do they have to have over 25 dollars in charges for orders to Canada when they could set one up in Winnipeg (its the central distribution point for all of Canada) Also, why do they have a Battle Corps page set up on the Battletech website? Because they are all under one umbrella.

As for if I know how to market, yes and a million times yes i do. Marketing is marketing. Regardless of where and what you sell. If you took marketing or sold any form of advertising you would know this. If marketing wasn't marketing why is Dungeons and Dragons what is today? it was a small paper and pencil idea that with the right marketing to the right target flew off the shelves. What is needed now to grow Battletech is to build a set up and send off members to those stores to market the game and advertise it with free promo days at those stores. I have had friends who worked for GW and before those stores came to Canada, how did the game grow? Proper marketing and game days at local hobby stores. How did MtG grow? They set up a plan and people in various cities going to where the gamers go to then demo the crap with product to sell at a cheap price. It's basic supply and demand. Once you get the person addicted you make sure you have the supply to keep them happy. Once you have a serious large market you then start raising prices until the market cannot hold those prices. It is simple supply and demand that if you ever took any form of business you would understand....heck, watch an episode of Celebrity apprentice and you learn that.

Listen, a successful business (regardless of how small or large they are) must have a good solid plan to bring and grow customers and keep them without alienating them. So far CGL has done well but they need to start making it more viable for people to get involved. Why not set up a chain of command in every city and region in North America. First as volunteers ( I am up for being a contact here in Kingston Ontario) and go from there. You see I have given some ideas that are basic successful ideas....what did you give this forum......so far nothing. Now I challenge you, what do you think should be done?

[Drogo-MA]

Caveman, nice idea you have there. as for my post before that was directed at roundtop.

[Draelren]

CaveMan, on 20 December 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

Or better yet, move away from paper manuals entirely and push everything as e-books at a low price. Easier to update the rules, easier to distribute, no printing costs, and people pirate the paper ones anyway, so you're not losing anything there.

Nooooooo... at least not be forced to use e-copies. Don't get me wrong, I am EXTREMELY tech oriented, I have multiple computers each with multiple monitors, android smartphone, and tablets as well... but I can NOT read a book on a screen. I am old fashioned, I need to purchase a physical copy, or I won't read it. I got it from my mother, our whole family is this way.

Sure, have an OPTION to download a pdf doc, but you should always be able to get a physical copy as well. It drives me crazy I can't get "A Bonfire of Worlds" on paperback.

[Atlas3060]

There's always the option to buy it and print it out.

[RoundTop]

drogon reuak, on 20 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

WotC started as a small business and worked from the ground up. They got out there to the small gaming communities and built on a fantastic idea. Then the cash started rolling in and voila the snowball grew into an avalanche. CGL still continues to make mistakes. Explain why they didn't have enough box sets to continue on after the release earlier this year. Why not find companies in the US that could have worked just as well but decided to go overseas.

In the past 20 years the market has changed substantially with regards to the printing industry. Most outfits moved to China/Asia, making North American production expensive in comparison. So that is apples to oranges.

Also, WotC was small until MtG caught the beginning of the CCG craze. The amount of money they made was hideous. Even at battletech's heyday of tabletop FASA didn't have that level of cash.

drogon reuak, on 20 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

With the market the way it is companies would have bent over backwards to have those contracts.

Surprisingly, no they aren't. The problem is the big materials for doing the heavy stuff are getting more rare in the US. Reduced supply = more demand on the few that are left.

drogon reuak, on 20 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

As for the minatures what the hell do you think Battletech is. It is based on miniatures and the game is around it. Why do you think they have 3 levels of rules.....all for ease of gameplay with the miniatures. Seriously, why do you think there is a Ironwind metals link on the
Battletech website? They are all owned or related to each other.

IWM is a completely separate company run by a different crew. FASA gave out the mini rights to btech to IWM a LOOONG time ago. They work together in a number of way to help cross promotion. IWM is run out of basically a garage with some pewter wheels. These are much cheaper to setup initially, but cost a bit more per model produced. It is even smaller than CGL.

As for shipping to Canada. It is more expensive (I live in Canada too, so I know). and they don't ship enough to CAN to make opening something in Winterpeg financially sound.

drogon reuak, on 20 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

As for if I know how to market, yes and a million times yes i do. Marketing is marketing. Regardless of where and what you sell.

Snipped a lot out of that one. *sigh* I do understand marketing. However again the marketing models of 20+ years ago are not those of today. There are very few local game stores to run stuff at / market. So most is done online, which can be hit and miss. Also the number of games is increasing in the industry, with increased competition from electronic media and "quick" games.

A better study would be Pathfinder by Paizo. They market the crap out of it online and at cons. Not sure of their overall sales.

drogon reuak, on 20 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

Listen, a successful business (regardless of how small or large they are) must have a good solid plan to bring and grow customers and keep them without alienating them. So far CGL has done well but they need to start making it more viable for people to get involved. Why not set up a chain of command in every city and region in North America. First as volunteers ( I am up for being a contact here in Kingston Ontario) and go from there.

Commando program on the CGL site.


Sorry Drogon, I've seen the nuts and bolts side of the gaming industry, CGL, and FLGS stores. I also have studied business, including small business and international business.

On the battletech.com boards you would have been flamed in 2 seconds flat for the GW reference, however here people are not as aware of the realities of the small business / tabletop gaming markets. Oh, and GW is down in revenues in 2011 by 3.5 million dollars. http://investor.game...ull-25-July.pdf

[Drogo-MA]

Very cool. Nice debate here. Okay Roundtop now I have a point for you. As a fellow canuck how do we contact Catalyst and tell them they have a couple guys that can hit the ground running and promote the game in our areas. As a fellow student of business, marketing and promotion are key aspects in growing the game....that much I sense we agree on. I am also seeing that we are both sides of the same coin when it comes to making money....albeit just going about it differently. So since we both have a love of Battletech, what other ideas do you think that needs to be done here.

Myself, I would like to see the TRO change format from a landscape to a letter format with the one side being the write up and the other side being a popular model of that mech in a record sheet format. However, publish only the most popular mechs/vehciles in those new books.(leave the infantry and protomech stuff for the larger TRO that can still be left for sale)

As for the quote on the flaming for the GW reference, that is something that most gamers have to realize, GW maybe down in revenue, but ALL businesses are down in revenue. However, GW is one of the most profitable gaming companies, yes along with WotC, and if we both remember from business study, do you not look at the most successful marketing plans, adopt them to work for you and also then execute it? Business is Business and money is money. This is what I was trying to say before hand with how Catalyst needs to work on building and growing the Battletech universe again.

Start at bringing and utilizing volunteers in areas across North America who want to play Battletech. (I am one guy here who is trying to do so in Kingston but could use Catalyst' help) then bring out a solid and easy tournament format for which say could be called "Solaris Saturday|" However, unlike what is happening now (in that products are mostly online) have a base line of product that is readily and easily available to these new players (box sets would be awesome and plastic lance sets ready to go for sale). Finally, Catalyst needs to start making buddy/buddy with the gaming shops that do have space for gaming. With the internet they could easily announce that they are looking for stores to grow contacts and to grow the game.

Yes it sounds like a lot of hard work and also old school business talk, but that is what the economy and world is evolving (devolving if you ask some) to. Now back to the issue at hand, what ideas do you think should be done to grow Battletech?

[Joseph Mallan]

I'm sorry I read the title and my first thought was, they have a jihad and blow the game back to 3025!

ie hit reset!

[Ulric Kell]

Creativity and Innovation will always present new and intriguing ways to showcase something. At the end of the day however, there is a limit. Take comics for example. Several big superheroes have had reboots because their story lines have exhausted all things. The flip side is Star Wars. Where you had thought episode 4-6 boxed you in and then Bioware takes you 2000 years in the past to KOTOR and innovates while sustaining and trying to stay true to the mythos.

Catalyst is in a tough spot with the Jihad ending and canon saying nothing major happens until the Dark Ages. They can’t really “re-write” the dark ages because they already write to it.

The best direction they can take, from a business and innovation perspective, is to remake MW:DA/AoD. I realize the angst with MW:DA/AoD and its simplification striping all of the glory out of Battletech but it opened the door to many new eyes. CBT is tough to play for the majority of people. You don’t need MW:DA/AoD simplified but something in the middle would go a long way.

[1SgtChuckie]

I havent seen a table top setup in years, much less an organized league or anything in my area. Although I have to say I would love to find one.

[Atlas3060]

Have you tried looking for a Catalyst Demo Agent lately?

http://www.catalystdemos.com/

Or even become one? They're always willing to look at applicants.

[Pht]

Xhaleon, on 15 December 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

I'm just wondering what will happen when we reach that point.

I don't think it's possible to hit this point. There will always be things to be added - historical, future, added detail, information on things never given before ... you name it.

[FireNova]

Ulric Kell, on 03 January 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

The best direction they can take, from a business and innovation perspective, is to remake MW:DA/AoD. I realize the angst with MW:DA/AoD and its simplification striping all of the glory out of Battletech but it opened the door to many new eyes. CBT is tough to play for the majority of people.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. What Catalyst needs to do however, is to stop the faction killer routine and encourage new blood to participate in BattleTech. I loved MW DA and AoD because of its more simplistic gameplay style and MUCH easier to understand rules. Catalyst needs to expand on this (maybe with some post DA/AoD storyline and have the players direct the story) by:

1. STOP KILLING FACTIONS. Twilight of the Clans Jaguars set a precedent, a very bad precedent. I understand the vast majority of the writers may have a bias against the Clans, but to reject so many unique factions with so many positive thinking fanbases who want to enjoy the greatness of BattleTech, it is just seen as a rude message towards those who like the Clans so much. The Wars of Reaving has only made things worse by more rejection of fanbases and I think personally is the wrong way to grow a franchise that has been struggling for the mainstream spotlight since 1998. Bringing the Jaguars (and possibly other Clans back as survivors in a way) back would be a great start to bringing in new and old fans who may particularly like the Jaguars (or other clans) and want to participate in BT as said faction(s).

2. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Can't stress this enough. The quote that Urlic Kell stated ("CBT is tough to play for the majority of people.") is SO true in fact that it can easily explain why there hasn't been a MW/BT based video game in 10 years and the TT version being stagnant for so long and in the "Dark Ages" (no pun intended) all this time. DA/AoD was the way to bring in new players (like myself) who find CBT to be too complex and time demanding to get involved in. The saying "if it isn't fun why play it" rings too true here.

3. Keep the lore elitism to a minimum. Let's face it. Not EVERYONE is going to know (or acknowledge) for that matter that such and such event happened in such and such year and as a result such and such RULES and LORE REGULATIONS have to be followed in gameplay. Not every person playing the Clans will follow Zell or honor duels or even be good at remembering every last single rule to be followed in order to have fun playing CBT. And not every person will remember to RP or know how to RP a house loyalist or Clansmen or what have you. At the end of the day, "if it isn't fun why play it". And this brings me to.......

4. LET THE PLAYERS INFLUENCE EVENTS IN THE STORY FOR ONCE. I can easily see this being done in the POST DA timeline. Where we have all the factions set up after the events in Dark Age and have the players from various factions influence territory/planetary control. It would add a whole new dimension to the game as well as bringing in new people who would otherwise not take an interest in a writer driven storyline where the player is merely "along for the ride". For example, the Smoke Jaguar survivors are finally freed of their service to The Republic of the Sphere after a several years long campaign and now the Jaguars are at a crossroads to decide where they will go next and reestablish the Smoke Jaguar Clan/faction. Or the Blood Spirits after being shattered to almost nothing in the Wars of Reaving and finding a place to call home in the very Deep Periphery. Or the Wolves deciding how to continue their drive towards Terra after taking many worlds along the Steiner/Marik border. Or the crossroads the Falcons will have to decide upon whether following the Mongol ways or rebelling to reestablish the true Falcon way (ways of the Clans). Or perhaps the Rasalhague Dominion (Ghost Bears) will decide to launch another war against the Combine/Cats and the players get to decide the fate of either faction.

It is ideas like this that could bring new life into BattleTech. Encouraging new people to join, participate, and determine the fate of the Inner Sphere is what Catalyst needs to allow if it ever hopes to make BattleTech into a true success and have BattleTech be in the mainstream spotlight once more.

[Fiachdubh]

What happens when Catalyst runs out of ideas for new things?

Maybe thats what happens on the 21st of December 2012?

[FireNova]

What happens when Catalyst runs out of ideas for new things?

This.



And this.

[Sychodemus]

From my experience dealing with TPTB of Battletech over the years I can say with confidence that they have a well-structured timeline; both in-game and for future products. Whether or not they can afford to follow their plans for any given year has been - and probably always will be - a crapshoot.

I wouldn't worry about developers running out of ideas; as long as there is innovation in the real world, gamers will find some way to introduce those ideas and concepts into the fictional world of their choice. New developers, likewise, can bring a new perspective to the setting and game(s) provided that they are allowed to do so.

The business model of Battletech is whole different issue. In my opinion, Battletech begins to falter when they open the floodgates of "in-game innovation" rather than "game system innovation." Even after the monumental task that was Total War, the core mechanics are still archaic and compared to other games it is terribly, terribly slow. Eventually, BattleTech will have to evolve, but it remains to be seen how painful that evolution will be. (It all depends on the developers.) But that is an argument that has been raging for almost as long as there has been a Battletech universe.

In the end, Battletech's greatest asset is that it is a very versatile and resilient IP.

[Pht]

Sychodemus, on 30 January 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

The business model of Battletech is whole different issue. In my opinion, Battletech begins to falter when they open the floodgates of "in-game innovation" rather than "game system innovation."

Did you listen to the three moves ahead podcast? This was specifically addressed; they're already making easier versions of the game that still give the feel of the original.

Quote

Even after the monumental task that was Total War, the core mechanics are still archaic and compared to other games it is terribly, terribly slow.

Age does not make something wrong or backwards; and it's slow to play ... so? Play battleforce, or one of the newer versions they're developing. Some of us enjoy a slower paced game that gives someone time to think and strategize.

Quote

Eventually, BattleTech will have to evolve, ...

Why?

[FireNova]

Pht, on 06 February 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Why?

Because sooner or later a new generation of BattleTech/MechWarrior enthusiasts/writers/players will have to replace the older, aging generation. Its just the way life works. People change, ideas change....hell....the entire world has changed. This is just something that BattleTech will have to face and adapt to.....or be left in the past forever. I for one would love to see BattleTech adapt and embrace a new storyline that is more in line with modern patterns/ideas. I mean if the Fourth Succession War in BT can be based off of the old 80s Davions (West) vs Liao (East) mentality back then that people were accustomed to, surely there can be future BT storyline events/novels that cover the POST Dark Age era and have a more modern feeling to them that people of TODAY can relate to as well in a way.

[Pht]

FireNova, on 07 February 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Because sooner or later a new generation of BattleTech/MechWarrior enthusiasts/writers/players will have to replace the older, aging generation. Its just the way life works. People change, ideas change....hell....the entire world has changed.

People don't change; human nature is the same now as it ever was; and the same old ideas continue to crop up in different garb time and again.

It is not necessary that BT change simply because it's not a mayfly.