44 replies to this topic

[Kargush]

I'm gonna boat heavy lasers, and I'm gonna love it.

I shall shine bright, a crazy diamond.

[Drezzt]

FLG 01, on 04 April 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

You have not yet been introduced to another drawback of the weapon: a delay in firing due to charge-up time.


TM, 226

You know what would be an interesting design? Give them the ramp up time but therefore lower their burn duration. So make it like a energy form of gauss. Example LHL: ramp up 0.5 , burn duration 0.5.
I just want them to work not the same way as pulse or normal lasers. Iam already afraid that they will be inferior pulse lasers

Edited by Drezzt, 04 April 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Baulven]

Honestly the large laser is pretty much DOA and depending on ghost heat linking the HML and HSL might be in the same category. They lack range and likely will have significant burn time, on top of high heat. There is pretty much no reason they will be used currently and adding additional issues is likely to make them all untenable.

[Mcgral18]

Baulven, on 04 April 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Honestly the large laser is pretty much DOA and depending on ghost heat linking the HML and HSL might be in the same category. They lack range and likely will have significant burn time, on top of high heat. There is pretty much no reason they will be used currently and adding additional issues is likely to make them all untenable.

Man, RACs are going to be worthless

They're gonna jam every other shot, and the 10 second wind up will make getting that one jam off impossible



(see what I did there?)

[Moonlight Grimoire]

If HL's have their slight delay before firing, let's say not gauss charge but a slight trigger delay, that would mess with most and make them rather hated due to the whole feeling of being non-responsive. That said, slight gauss charge like mechanic to them would be interesting and make them very different from normal lasers, have them only ghost heat with other HL's of the same class (so HLL's only with HLL's, HML with HML, HSL with HLS) and not with ER's or Pulse so it is viable to bring pulse or ER's as secondaries to back up your main battery of partying.

Now for the sensors being messed with, I had before thought of the idea that it could scramble your sensors like enemy ECM does for the duration + .5 seconds of firing the heavy lasers. The other thing is when you fire you lose the ability to target lock or see the enemy's paper doll. This to me makes it so they can't zero in on a component that is weak and focus it down.

[Baulven]

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Man, RACs are going to be worthless

They're gonna jam every other shot, and the 10 second wind up will make getting that one jam off impossible



(see what I did there?)

RACs are unlikely to have more than a 1:1 heat ratio, have same range, less face time, and less heat. Most likely their jam won't be as terrible as the UAC (god help it if it is).

Let's face it heavy large lasers have **** range, **** heat, ghost heat will be two at best, and quite frankly ERPPC is superior in all aspects since it is pinpoint. One less damage three less heat.

The ONLY reason people will mount these currently is hard point limitation, because you know they will tie them to ghost heat (because if they don't, again, God help us) where they are a worse alternative on any chassis that isn't hard point starved. This isn't a sky is falling statement, this is because objectively in table top the heavy laser is a shifty system saved by game limitations (barely and the whole one shot per turn.) The RAC will have the same range with better heat, better damage, better sustain, and better pinpoint than a laser people want a second and a half burn time on (which is a joke since no one uses the long burn time lasers now.)

Edited by Baulven, 04 April 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mcgral18, on 03 April 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

Goose Waffle does it (for the duration you hold it)

Damn it Waffles!

#DFA

[Hit the Deck]

Baulven, on 04 April 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

...
and quite frankly ERPPC is superior in all aspects since it is pinpoint. One less damage three less heat.
...

Can I have your pin point 15 damage ERPPC please?

[Baulven]

Hit the Deck, on 04 April 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Can I have your pin point 15 damage ERPPC please?

10 damage 5 splash vs 16 damage that will take a miracle to get into one component against any halfway awake pilot that twists? At half the range? With more heat? Pray tell what mechs you would run it on with baseline models that aren't hardpoint starved? I really want to know the reasoning behind sacrificing half your heat gauge for two of these short ranged weapons.

[Rhent]

Heavy Lasers will have an extended burn time past the regular lasers, which frankly will greatly cut into their effective DPS compared to pulse lasers. Only the Heavy Medium Laser which is a 1 ton PPC will get any use.

[Baulven]

Rhent, on 04 April 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

Heavy Lasers will have an extended burn time past the regular lasers, which frankly will greatly cut into their effective DPS compared to pulse lasers. Only the Heavy Medium Laser which is a 1 ton PPC will get any use.

That's still dependent on other factors as well. It needs to be on part with a medium pulse to warrant taking a slightly hotter, slightly more damaging option for the same range. If the duration is significantly worse I would prefer boating MPLs myself.

[Mcgral18]

Baulven, on 04 April 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

That's still dependent on other factors as well. It needs to be on part with a medium pulse to warrant taking a slightly hotter, slightly more damaging option for the same range. If the duration is significantly worse I would prefer boating MPLs myself.

Clam Pulses (Small aside) are essentially Heavy Lasers in their implementation

Which will make it strange for PGI to implement



They can easily be very powerful, or too weak.
To say they're guaranteed to be weak isn't truth, however.

[Baulven]

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Clam Pulses (Small aside) are essentially Heavy Lasers in their implementation

Which will make it strange for PGI to implement



They can easily be very powerful, or too weak.
To say they're guaranteed to be weak isn't truth, however.

I agree they aren't guarenteed to be weak, however as table top values run they aren't useful with any sort of meaningful burn time, and people already started lobbying for burn time of the gods (1.5 seconds or higher.) Like most things the problem is balance - too weak and no one uses under any circumstances or in niche cases (looking at you cERLL) too strong it becomes ungodly and everyone uses it exclusively until the inevitable nerf.

Honestly to make it useful at the ranges of tabletop it would need a burn close to current pulses and offset by a high duration cool down. That's always the problem with lasers, duration is the fine line that is walked by many mechs in the search of something worthwhile.

[Rhent]

Baulven, on 04 April 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

That's still dependent on other factors as well. It needs to be on part with a medium pulse to warrant taking a slightly hotter, slightly more damaging option for the same range. If the duration is significantly worse I would prefer boating MPLs myself.

Nope:
Heavy Medium Laser: 1 ton 2 crit slots 10 damage 7 heat
Medium Pulse Laser: 2 ton 1 crit slot 8 damage 6 heat

You'll see clan mechs boating the HML a lot, the 1 ton alone will make them appealing, just boat 4 of them and you'll have the rest of the space for DHS and you'll have no ghost heat. A lot of clan mechs with tonnage limitations but with extra energy ports will get a boost with these. It will be probably one of the better weapons from the upgrades for the clan.

[Mole]

I think boating Heavy Lasers is going to be a bad idea but if you've got one of those odd 'mechs that has just a couple energy hardpoints and you've loaded up what you want and got a few extra tons, throw in a couple heavy lasers for some extra kick when you need it. Not sure we're going to be seeing many 'mechs that can realistically carry Heavy Lasers as a primary weapon. They WILL make great low tonnage backup weapons for LRM boats.

Edited by Mole, 04 April 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[Baulven]

Rhent, on 04 April 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Nope:
Heavy Medium Laser: 1 ton 2 crit slots 10 damage 7 heat
Medium Pulse Laser: 2 ton 1 crit slot 8 damage 6 heat

You'll see clan mechs boating the HML a lot, the 1 ton alone will make them appealing, just boat 4 of them and you'll have the rest of the space for DHS and you'll have no ghost heat. A lot of clan mechs with tonnage limitations but with extra energy ports will get a boost with these. It will be probably one of the better weapons from the upgrades for the clan.

If the HML has a burn time of 1.25 seconds or greater few people will boat it even with the reduced critical slots. Burn time has a lot to do with weapon viability, since you get more into a single component the lower the duration of the laser.

[Mcgral18]

Baulven, on 04 April 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

If the HML has a burn time of 1.25 seconds or greater few people will boat it even with the reduced critical slots. Burn time has a lot to do with weapon viability, since you get more into a single component the lower the duration of the laser.

At 1.25s duration, it still has 0.8 Dam/tick

Which is above most lasers (not the Large class, or Med Pulse lasers, same as the cSPL)
But, 1.25 would probably the highest before it's a poor choice of a weapon, straying dangerously close to the cERLL

[Death Proof]

LordNothing, on 03 April 2017 - 10:15 PM, said:

this is one of those things i think is missing in mwo. sensors are supposed to be a system that can fail. they should be disrupted by ppcs and other fun things like heavy lasers. the system should be critable.

I still think taking cockpit damage or heavy torso damage should have a chance to crit sensors, causing them to act on the fritz (intermittent radar failure, HUD failure on various readouts, inability to get a loadout read on targets, nightvision/thermal optics damaged, etc).

[Rhent]

Baulven, on 04 April 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

If the HML has a burn time of 1.25 seconds or greater few people will boat it even with the reduced critical slots. Burn time has a lot to do with weapon viability, since you get more into a single component the lower the duration of the laser.

It will have shorter range than than the CERML, I doubt it will have a longer duration than that, realistically it will be sitting at 1sec and probably with some variability in the pulse damage per tick to make up for the targeting inaccuracy.

Edited by Rhent, 04 April 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 April 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

Damn it Waffles!

#DFA

Did no one get the reference? So sad
https://www.youtube....cmlry8pKKLOdmlX
(although, start at season 1 instead)