22 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Spoiler

[Fobhopper]

When people who actually play this game see that these mechs arent P2W, and are mostly just mediocre or sidegrades to the current available options and watch people's reaction when every time a new mech pack or hero wave gets announced.

it never ceases to amaze me how silly people are.

[Mcgral18]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

When people who actually play this game see that these mechs arent P2W, and are mostly just mediocre or sidegrades to the current available options and watch people's reaction when every time a new mech pack or hero wave gets announced.

it never ceases to amaze me how silly people are.

6 lasers is just a sidegrade to 4 lasers, guys

Stop worrying

[Deathlike]

Weapons given in sections that didn't originally have them (I'm look at you Mr. Gargles) tells you all you need to really know.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 April 2017 - 02:22 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Mcgral18, on 05 April 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

6 lasers is just a sidegrade to 4 lasers, guys

Stop worrying

A 2 missile side torso is just a side grade to a 1 missile side torso, guys.....

A pair of missile side torsos is just a side grade to zero hardpoint side torsos, guys.....

A pair of energy in a side torso is just a side grade to zero hardpoint side torsos, guys.....

[Fobhopper]

Pariah Devalis, on 05 April 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

A 2 missile side torso is just a side grade to a 1 missile side torso, guys.....

A pair of missile side torsos is just a side grade to zero hardpoint side torsos, guys.....

A pair of energy in a side torso is just a side grade to zero hardpoint side torsos, guys.....

And you still need heatsinks, ammo and all the other **** required to operate a mech. Those mechs dont allow you to post free tonnage weapons in them, it comes at a price just like all the other mechs. More heat, more weapons to manage, more time required to cool. Go ahead, boat the **** out of those lasers, you are just going to overheat faster. Go ahead and add missiles to your mech, gives me more of a chance to crit your ammo and blow your limbs out.

Its not free tonnage. You dont immediately get a superior option, you only get different options. You still die like all the other mechs. The hero mechs dont have more armor, better cooling or anything that makes them inherently superior stat wise. They just have different weapon loadouts. They still die to the same amount of fire that would kill their F2P family variants.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

And you still need heatsinks, ammo and all the other **** required to operate a mech.

So why is the meta Cheetah build 4 SPLs instead of 6 SPLs? Sorry but this argument is still as bad as it was in the other thread, because it isn't understanding of what makes a meta build just that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 05 April 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

And you still need heatsinks, ammo and all the other **** required to operate a mech. Those mechs dont allow you to post free tonnage weapons in them, it comes at a price just like all the other mechs. More heat, more weapons to manage, more time required to cool. Go ahead, boat the **** out of those lasers, you are just going to overheat faster. Go ahead and add missiles to your mech, gives me more of a chance to crit your ammo and blow your limbs out.

Its not free tonnage. You dont immediately get a superior option, you only get different options. You still die like all the other mechs. The hero mechs dont have more armor, better cooling or anything that makes them inherently superior stat wise. They just have different weapon loadouts. They still die to the same amount of fire that would kill their F2P family variants.

You are ignoring that hardpoints counts and locations are what makes mechs good in this game, first and foremost. A Hellbringer with an extra ER ML IS a better trader even if it runs hotter, because trading is what laser vomit does, and trading means you do as much damage as possible at once and then you hide, so you are maximizing your damage potential and minimizing exposure. That's why getting an extra RT energy hardpoint is an improvement for the Hellbringer. Just an example.

[Gas Guzzler]

Don't get me wrong, I have never been one to go on tirades about P2W or anything like that, I actually don't care that much because I don't think any of these mechs actually become the best of their weight class at a given role.

What I do care about is buying mechs that I can't even make use of in the comp mode or other comp leagues. It just really takes the allure away, I can farm C-bills in quick play with a 5 laser Hellbringer no problem, I already have the -F and it works just fine. Trading the TC1 for an ER ML isn't really worth $20 to me at this moment, its a net improvement, but since the only place I can use it is quick play/faction play, the motivation just isn't there.

[Fobhopper]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 April 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

You are ignoring that hardpoints counts and locations are what makes mechs good in this game, first and foremost. A Hellbringer with an extra ER ML IS a better trader even if it runs hotter, because trading is what laser vomit does, and trading means you do as much damage as possible at once and then you hide, so you are maximizing your damage potential and minimizing exposure. That's why getting an extra RT energy hardpoint is an improvement for the Hellbringer. Just an example.

I brawl a lot in this game. I prefer it over being fire support. If laser vomiters can hide and poke all game long (which for everyone's whining about it, thats how they all play) then yes, they are better at alpha striking. But you get those same laser vomit mechs into a brawl situation and they are going to overheat and die, or just die. Laser mechs cant do **** if they cant bleed off their heat. Brawling (if you can get into brawling range, something difficult with all the map reworks that have left massive open spaces in most of the maps) removes the great benefit and forces their hand. Yes they can put out more immediate damage, but have to hide longer or else risk death.

A mech with more lasers on it will only be a better trader if you let it out trade you.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

But you get those same laser vomit mechs into a brawl situation and they are going to overheat and die, or just die. Laser mechs cant do **** if they cant bleed off their heat.

You realize some brawlers are also laser vomit mechs right? Some of the most dangerous brawlers are cSPL boats keeping in mind cSPL have the SAME heat as an SRM4, are more accurate, and only at a loss of some range (which isn't really the case given the inherent inaccuracy of SRMs) and 2 damage potential.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 05 April 2017 - 03:05 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

I brawl a lot in this game. I prefer it over being fire support. If laser vomiters can hide and poke all game long (which for everyone's whining about it, thats how they all play) then yes, they are better at alpha striking. But you get those same laser vomit mechs into a brawl situation and they are going to overheat and die, or just die. Laser mechs cant do **** if they cant bleed off their heat. Brawling (if you can get into brawling range, something difficult with all the map reworks that have left massive open spaces in most of the maps) removes the great benefit and forces their hand. Yes they can put out more immediate damage, but have to hide longer or else risk death.

A mech with more lasers on it will only be a better trader if you let it out trade you.

Since its not a 1v1, often times you can't just brawl on your own terms. If you push a laser vomit mech by yourself and actually manage to get to him, if he is positioned properly, his buddies will all turn and drill you with 250 damage worth of laser vomit.

You don't need to present the dynamic balance between laser vomit and brawling, I know its there, but a team is setup to brawl or poke or snipe or whatever, and approaching a line of laser vomit mechs with brawlers isn't always trivial. Still, saying you can sneak up on a laser vomit mech and outbrawl it more easily because it traded a TC for an extra ER ML (actually, all the mech would have to do is not fire all of its lasers and it would run just as cool as the DHS didn't change, for the Hellbringer example) doesn't actually refute that the mech is a better trader because it has an extra high mounted energy hardpoint.

[El Bandito]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

And you still need heatsinks, ammo and all the other **** required to operate a mech. Those mechs dont allow you to post free tonnage weapons in them, it comes at a price just like all the other mechs. More heat, more weapons to manage, more time required to cool. Go ahead, boat the **** out of those lasers, you are just going to overheat faster. Go ahead and add missiles to your mech, gives me more of a chance to crit your ammo and blow your limbs out.

Its not free tonnage. You dont immediately get a superior option, you only get different options. You still die like all the other mechs. The hero mechs dont have more armor, better cooling or anything that makes them inherently superior stat wise. They just have different weapon loadouts. They still die to the same amount of fire that would kill their F2P family variants.

[Scout Derek]

Fobhopper, on 05 April 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

And you still need heatsinks, ammo and all the other **** required to operate a mech. Those mechs dont allow you to post free tonnage weapons in them, it comes at a price just like all the other mechs. More heat, more weapons to manage, more time required to cool. Go ahead, boat the **** out of those lasers, you are just going to overheat faster. Go ahead and add missiles to your mech, gives me more of a chance to crit your ammo and blow your limbs out.

Its not free tonnage. You dont immediately get a superior option, you only get different options. You still die like all the other mechs. The hero mechs dont have more armor, better cooling or anything that makes them inherently superior stat wise. They just have different weapon loadouts. They still die to the same amount of fire that would kill their F2P family variants.

What the F****?

You're telling me that the Mist Lynx that now with the hero pods can mount 4E and Ecm is not superior to 2E and ECM? Or how about the Ice Ferret that can now mount ECM alongside it's 5E? Or how about the Executioner and Gargoyle that can now SRM brawl at fast speeds, better than the Cyclops-10Q can once they come out?

Seriously, stop. It's really obvious and it's really sad.

Edited by Scout Derek, 05 April 2017 - 06:52 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 April 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

You realize some brawlers are also laser vomit mechs right? Some of the most dangerous brawlers are cSPL boats keeping in mind cSPL have the SAME heat as an SRM4, are more accurate, and only at a loss of some range (which isn't really the case given the inherent inaccuracy of SRMs) and 2 damage potential.

Which one of those new Hero Mechs is going to take over the brawler meta with laser vomit when they are released in August?

[Jackal Noble]

Rampage, on 05 April 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Which one of those new Hero Mechs is going to take over the brawler meta with laser vomit when they are released in August?

The Battlemaster 2C

[Scout Derek]

JackalBeast, on 05 April 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

The Battlemaster 2C

lel

Edited by Scout Derek, 05 April 2017 - 10:14 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Rampage, on 05 April 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Which one of those new Hero Mechs is going to take over the brawler meta with laser vomit when they are released in August?

Congrats on taking that quote out of context?

[Cy Mitchell]

Rampage, on 05 April 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Which one of those new Hero Mechs is going to take over the brawler meta with laser vomit when they are released in August?

In fact, please tell me which one of those new Hero Mechs is going to be the best Mech in its weight class and better than any Mech that you can get for C-Bill in that class.

I would love to see an event where you had to score the highest possible match scores and the most KMDDs in 100 consecutive games held with big prizes to the winners. For that, everyone would want their best possible Mech and I would be willing to bet that not one of these "P2W" Clan Hero Mechs or their omni-pods would be chosen for the task if the user was serious about actually winning.

Pay to win, pfffft. It is a nice rally cry to get the mob mentality going so they will march on PGI with their pitchforks and torches. In my opinion the truth is, it is more about those that profess "their wallets are closed" still wanting all the new shiny stuff that PGI makes.

I have no problem with the omni pods be sold for C-Bills. But lets be honest here, none of these Mechs or pods are going to transform these Mech into "must have this to win". The only way that would be the case would be if you were only able to play that Mech in each particular class and none of the better ones that are available to everyone for free.

My fear, with all this hoopla, is that PGI will choose not to sell the omni-pods for C-Bills and instead rework all the Heroes so that they bring nothing new to the game or the chassis that need more variety. Russ has already stated on Twitter that the team is reviewing the Heroes and that they can and will offer refunds to those that want them if they are changed.

I, personally, have pre-ordered two of the Heroes. I will keep the Hellbringer no matter what they do to it because good or bad, I have to own all the Hellbringers. I will get a refund on the other one and will not consider buying any of the others unless they bring something new, unique and interesting to the chassis. But then, they cannot do that because then the mob will rise up and march again with chants of "P2W, P2W, P2W!"

It is no wonder that I have only played the PTS in 2017.

Edited by Rampage, 05 April 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 April 2017 - 08:34 PM, said:

Congrats on taking that quote out of context?

LOL, you guys were arguing that the HBR with the one extra energy hardpoint in the torso would allow for such better builds, I thought maybe you would say that it was going to allow the HBR to become a beastly brawler. You guys argue around in circles. Why can I not do the same?