16 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Pay to Win - a situation where cash is needed to get the best available gear within an equipment bracket/bucket/category.

Fact - The Clan Hero Collection exhibits many flatly superior omnipods... it's just a flat fact. It's not a sidegrade to swap your free omnipods with many of these Hero omnipods. Simply adding hardpoints = adding power. It's not that way in all examples of Clan Hero omnipods (many are empty pods, or equal to another) but many of these Heros are comprised of omnipods that 100% outright functionally obsolete their free counterparts.

Consider this, though.
Thinking these superior pods are examples of P2W means you're operating under the assumption that it is impossible to get enough free MC from Events to buy a Clan Hero (let's conveniently ignore the early-release to the hangars of cash pre-order customers for now, plz...). Now although it's not technically impossible, it is [in my opinion] quite unreasonable to expect someone to grind for multiple hero Mechs. Yeah, no.


It it not unreasonable, however, to grind enough MC from events to buy Hero Omnipods if they were sold for MC in game at a decent price. A consideration is the PGI would need to price the omnipods such that buying the entire Hero was still an enticing offer, so not just 50MC per Torso.

• If you could buy Hero Omnipods with MC, would the ability to get MC from events and would the volume of MC be sufficient to render them not P2W?
  
• And what would be a good Free-To-Play price of premium MC currency based on the frequency and volume of free MC giveaways?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 06 April 2017 - 04:33 PM.

[Tarogato]

I'd call it acceptable. Though I'd actually say 50MC is way too little. I'm thinking more like 10% the cost of the hero itself. (each omni has 8 components, each component is 12.5% of the mech, but so for the DWF-UV that would be 470MC per pod, which is a bit steep. At 10%, it's 375MC, which is easier to stomach.)


EDITTTT: on second thought... the DWF-UV actually has three good pods that you'd want to buy... maybe 10% is way too much, lol. That would be 450MC to get the MDD ballistic torsos for instance... hrmmm...

Maybe 5%, lol.

Edited by Tarogato, 06 April 2017 - 05:08 PM.

[BumbleBee]

~500-700MC for a heavy would be fair IMHO (scaled to chassis weight). 300MC is approximately US$1, so ~$2 per pod. That's 7 possible pods as CT doesn't count. With no C-Bill boost or special camo it's fair, and people can still grind MC for the pods. They will still be grinding events for a while, especially if they want more than 1 or 2, but its not unreasonable.

The price cant be too low. People will still need to be enticed into buying MC for real cash so it needs to be a bit high, but it still needs to be a grind for free players

Edited by BumbleBee, 06 April 2017 - 05:05 PM.

[ProfessorD]

I think Taro has the right idea on pricing.

Here's how you make paying cash for the hero enticing: Let players that purchase the hero get infinite free copies of the hero omnipods. The prices are high enough that something like this really needs to be thrown in anyway.

(Hint hint for PGI: I am not buying any of the stand-alone heroes at the current price, no matter how P2W. Throw in infinite free hero omnipods, and I'll probably get one.)

Edited by ProfessorD, 06 April 2017 - 05:07 PM.

[Marius Romanis]

I Think 450mc per pod 3 - 4 months after its in game.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 06 April 2017 - 06:14 PM.

[InspectorG]

MC is still pay to win. How many MC events do we get per year?

Hero Pods should sell for Cbill at x2 value of other pods.

That way, people buying Hero mechs are really buying Camo and Cbill Bonus

[The6thMessenger]

Yes, thank you. Omnipods for MC!

Tarogato, on 06 April 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

I'd call it acceptable. Though I'd actually say 50MC is way too little. I'm thinking more like 10% the cost of the hero itself. (each omni has 8 components, each component is 12.5% of the mech, but so for the DWF-UV that would be 470MC per pod, which is a bit steep. At 10%, it's 375MC, which is easier to stomach.)


EDITTTT: on second thought... the DWF-UV actually has three good pods that you'd want to buy... maybe 10% is way too much, lol. That would be 450MC to get the MDD ballistic torsos for instance... hrmmm...

Maybe 5%, lol.

I really like to get them for cheap. However, it's just that, maybe it's too good or something.

It could be something like, 5 x tonnage MC worth.

20t - 100
25t - 125
30t - 150
35t - 175
40t - 200
45t - 225
50t - 250
55t - 275
60t - 300
65t - 325
70t - 350
75t - 375
80t - 400
85t - 425
90t - 450
95t - 475
100t - 500

To put that into perspective, locust 1E costs, 1,491,242 CBill or 600 MC, so the rate is 2485.403333333333 CBill / MC, or 4.023491827617516e-4 MC/ Cbill. Each Dire Wolf Omnipod costs 438,120 CBills, and direct to MC conversion would be at 176.2772239515786 MC, or just 177 MC. Likewise the Mist Lynx pod at 150,885 CBills would be only at 60.70845644100689 MC or just 61 MC.

The rate i gave is around 2x - 3x that. So theoretically, it's still cheaper to buy Heroes as a whole, than individual omnipods.

Direwolf arms would cost 1000 MC a pair, that's literally just 7$ worth of MC, - 250 of excess MC. Compare that to the whole hero that costs 30$.

InspectorG, on 06 April 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

MC is still pay to win. How many MC events do we get per year?

Hero Pods should sell for Cbill at x2 value of other pods.

That way, people buying Hero mechs are really buying Camo and Cbill Bonus

Well, you also need to play long enough to earn CBills, just as you need to play long enough to catch those events, and win free MC. Is that not enough? That's practically just the same, just harder. Hell, you can also buy C-Bills via MC. Why are you not outraged by that?

You still gotta acknowledge, PGI is still a company, and MWO is a business. They gotta make money somehow. This idea at least make it so that it's not that expensive to win.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 06 April 2017 - 07:28 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

InspectorG, on 06 April 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

MC is still pay to win. How many MC events do we get per year?

I think if it's at least once every two months, then that should be enough as long as the max reward per event is both attainable, and enough to buy an Assault Left Torso.

[El Bandito]

MC based pod is more acceptable than buying the entire mech.

[Felicitatem Parco]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

MC based pod is more acceptable than buying the entire mech.

That's the problem...

If MC omnipods were a thing, they would have to cost enough to still make people want to buy the entire Hero. That's the big snag - how to make pods "affordable" via Event-based MC but still make the entire Mech worth it.. because, face it - I really only want those select Clan Heroes for their pods. That's just me talking... but I assume many others as well feel this way.

[Khobai]

we need negative quirks added back to the game. that way stronger omnipods can be balanced using negative quirks.

if the hellbringer hero's side torso was 2E and -25% acceleration/deceleration and -5% turning speed for example, would it still be pay2win?

Itd be more of a pay2sidegrade than pay2win. I see no problem with pay2sidegrade.

[Jackal Noble]

Stahp

[Felicitatem Parco]

JackalBeast, on 06 April 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

Stahp

You know that this is probably the only thread on the topic that lacks petty off-topic arguments and bickering...
Ah, crap. I just blew it.

Well, anyways, negative quirks are a way to balance hardpoint-consumption pods. The drawback is determining how much of a negative quirk would be needed. How do you calculate the nerf needed to balance the addition of 2 energy hardpoints to a mech that normally has only 1 or 2 available? What if they already have 7-8 available, like the Hellbringer?

[Natred]

Flat omnipod fact that they are better then normal omni pods? Really? Where is these "facts" you speak off? Your speaking in absolutes(sith) which 9 times out of 10 means your bullshitting. Most onnimechs standard omnipods are solid and offer diversity and optimization.. for example that hellbringer left torso and omnipod head! Yet there is also draw backs to that chassis like locked endo armor i believe and no jump jets. No need to cry about how clan hero onnipods are better when none of then have more then 3 hardpoints in each component.. atleast in wave 2 hero mechs unless things change.

Edited by Natred, 07 April 2017 - 08:49 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Natred, on 07 April 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Flat omnipod fact that they are better then normal omni pods? Really? Where is these "facts" you speak off? Your speaking in absolutes(sith) which 9 times out of 10 means your bullshitting. Most onnimechs standard omnipods are solid and offer diversity and optimization..

Did you read this part of my post?

Prosperity Park, on 06 April 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's not that way in all examples of Clan Hero omnipods (many are empty pods, or equal to another) but many of these Heros are comprised of omnipods that 100% outright functionally obsolete their free counterparts.

Because, it seems like you didn't read my whole post. You dropped the Sith bomb, accusing me of speaking in absolutes when I clearly stated the diversity of pod value.

Here is a plain fact that not even a dope can argue against. If a Hero Omnipod has 2 energy hardpoints, and the standard pods do not have any or only have 1, then the Hero pod is superior and obsoletes the standard offerings.

(Wow, I was going to say something mean... But I won't because the better Jedi doesn't insult people just for a laugh)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 07 April 2017 - 01:54 PM.

[WarHippy]

Prosperity Park, on 06 April 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

That's the problem...

If MC omnipods were a thing, they would have to cost enough to still make people want to buy the entire Hero. That's the big snag - how to make pods "affordable" via Event-based MC but still make the entire Mech worth it.. because, face it - I really only want those select Clan Heroes for their pods. That's just me talking... but I assume many others as well feel this way.

Eh, I'm not sure I see a need for the pods to cost MC at all. Personally, I think the pods should all be available for c-bills. The c-bill bonuses and unique paints schemes should be the reason to buy hero mechs not the pods etc.. A lot of f2p games get their money from skins and other cosmetic uniqueness options rather than actual game impacting items. Perhaps in addition to the unique look and c-bill bonus of hero mechs they could add exclusive decals that can be used on other mechs or something along those lines.

[Baulven]

Omni-pods available 4-6 months post release, let people who buy the hero buy additional pods for 1/4 the price no buying people pay (so if it is 100 for a non purchase person it is 25 for anone that bought the hero.)