123 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Rampage, on 08 April 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

I do not as a rule play Lights. I have the Kit Fox because it was the first Clan Mech I bought and it more like a Medium than a Light. Having said that, I know that both the Locust and ACH are overall better Mechs than the Purifer. I do not know if there is another Light that can poke as well as the Purifier. So I will conceed that point due to ignorance on the subject. I do wonder though, if the Purifier is really that good, why do I not see many of them in game? Maybe because they are cash only but that has not stopped other Mechs from dominating QP and GQ drops in the past. I would think the word would have got out but I still see more Locust, ACH, RVN and even Spiders in game when I watch all the Tier 1 streamers. I can assure you that no Assault or Heavy pilot cringes in fear when they see a Purifier coming like they tend to do with LCT and ACH. I do not see the Purifier as a game changer. If you think that is short sighted then that is fine with me.

I would point out that even the Purifier is not Forever Paywalled. Not even for someone like you that has said you will never spend money on the game. You said yourself that you that you are considering using MC that you get free from events and tourneys to buy a Purifier when it is available for MC.

You also ignore that I have said many times that I have no issue with making these pods available for C-Bills. My concern is for the financial well-being of the game. Giving away everything for free means the game will not survive. Broadly labeling a game "pay to win" discourages newcomers from getting involved. I am also concerned that these constant accusations will stifle PGIs willingness to introduce anything new to the game. Both of these also do harm to the game.

It's PGI's decision for the Pod availability
If MWO becomes P2W (to any degree), no money from me, or others
If They sell the pods for MC, Heroes then become Early Access and Cbill Bosters (which should be their intended use)
They may sell fewer. Will, but community relations will improve and long term income may be superior


I'll get it for 50% off
5100 MC, it'll be ~1410
MCMk2 will be ~4230 at half

So, with events, I should be able get both, given enough time
But, events rarely give you more than a couple hundred, and rarely happen more than a couple times a year.
I only got 140 from the last one, but also only 60 redemptions
If we assume same ratio (a bad assumption), that's 232 MC
If there's 4 a year ( honestly haven't counted), we can round that up to 1000 MC per year
It would take six of those events to get a 30 ton Clam Hero mech, at half off

[Tarogato]

Rampage, on 08 April 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Point taken but not all competitive players are calling it P2W. Also it is not allowed in the current competitive environment so it is not having any effect or your competitiveness. If you are condidering solo or group Q competitve then I have to ask what is competitive about potato mashing?

Heroes are still allowed in 1v1s (such as PGI's master challenge, CWX tournament, and MWA), plus chassis leaderboards. They were only recently banned in MRBC, and it took quite an effort to instate that change. RHoD hasn't banned heroes.

To me, for pug queue (solo, group, or CW) it's more about being obsoleted. Why would I ever bother playing Ice Ferrets again if I don't have the ECM pod? I would only be playing 80% of an optimum Ice Ferret. For me, as a competitive-minded player, I must always be in the optimum setup, so that I know that my performance is reflective of me, and I can't blame my equipment. The real kick in the nads would be pulling off this dastardly flank, knowing I'm about to catch somebody unawares, and suddenly I have three heavies in my face that turned around and marched toward me because they spotted me on radar briefly. I get nuked. Would not have happened if I had the ECM torso. gg i guess. Should have paid $15 to put an ECM on my mech.

Quote

You run both the Arctic Cheetah and the Purifier and said you would choose the Purifier for most situations. You posted the stats of your Purifier vs a Jenner IIC. I would be curious to see your stats of the Arctic Cheetah vs the Purifier. You could pull those from your Stat page.

Chassis Mech-ID	Matches	Wins	Losses	Win Ratio	Kills	Deaths	K-D Ratio	Damage Done	XP Earned	Time Played	XP Avg.	Kill Avg.	Death Avg.	Dmg. Avg.
PURIFIER	85	57	28	2.04	140	36	3.89	43,000	98,375	10:24:14	1157	1.65	0.42	505
JENNER IIC JR7-IIC-A	112	67	44	1.52	143	61	2.34	49,130	162,639	13:27:14	1452	1.28	0.54	438
ARCTIC CHEETAH ACH-PRIME	266	166	99	1.68	343	97	3.54	105,641	461,579	32:29:55	1735	1.29	0.36	397
ARCTIC CHEETAH ACH-C	135	76	58	1.31	167	72	2.32	45,084	182,986	14:16:38	1355	1.24	0.53	333

Quote

Your wants? I think you defined that at the beginning of your post when you described the difference between me and you. You do not want anything that might be superior to what you can get for free introduced on any chassis. If it makes that chassis better than the free variants of that chassis then it must be given out free even if that chassis still in not viable or permitted in competitive play. That cover it?

Exactly - or more simply put, you must be able to achieve the absolute maximum potential for free, if you work hard for it*. Paying to skip grind is fine with me. Paying to get exclusive mechs with exclusive hardpoints is fine too, so long as they are not superior. But paying to get better equipment, no matter how minute a difference, is not fair in my opinion.

And yeah, the Ember, Oxide, and Dragon Slayer were prime examples during their respective times in the spotlight, of how cash-only mechs shouldn't be superior to C-bill earned ones.


*yes, I understand you can work hard to earn MC and purchase heroes that way. I've done that, I'm completely F2P and four of my 90+ mechs are heroes now - I can afford about one a year. But with how hard it is to earn MC for free, it's prohibitive to chase the meta when the meta is expensive heroes.

Edited by Tarogato, 08 April 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Mcgral18, on 08 April 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

I only got 140 from the last one, but also only 60 redemptions

Rotten luck. I got 390MC from 75. Still it is doable

It would probably be better if they just made the pods available for MC. That would cut the time down to get them substantially.

I may be fatalistic here but I expect them to re-work the heroes instead and the end result is that no one gets them. That would be the most efficient solution but sure would not be satisfying.

Mcgral18, on 08 April 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

They may sell fewer. Will, but community relations will improve and long term income may be superior

I honestly wish I could believe that but I do not.

[Deathlike]

Rampage, on 08 April 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Point taken but not all competitive p[layers are calling it P2W. Also it is not allowed in the current competitive environment so it is not having any effect or your competitiveness. If you are condidering solo or group Q competitve then I have to ask what is competitive about potato mashing?

At the very minimum, any comp player worth their salt know some of those omnipods provide an advantage if they were made available to the masses. Considering that this advantage requires real money, it's hard to dispute that even if not all of them are calling it P2W.

[Cy Mitchell]

Mcgral18, on 08 April 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Tarogato, on 08 April 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

The longer this discussion goes on the more I am convinced that your definition of P2W is more self-serving than it is accurate.

One of you has stated that you got the Purifier, which has been the shining example of P2W in this thread, for free. The other one stated that you could get the Purifier for free but might want to spend your, event won, MC on the MKII instead. (Why? That will only save you a month in getting it free with C-Bills.)

You both stated that you do not spend money on this game.


You both have shown that the Purifier is, in fact, not paywalled and can be had for free. Apparently now the argument is that it is not free enough. You do not just want it free, you want it to be free enough and easy enough to grind that you can keep up with the meta changes that comps live and die by. How many times did the core meta shift in 2016? 3? And then a bunch of smaller shifts with Mechs rising and falling from favor. So now, to avoid you defining them as P2W, even the Heroes must be free to you on the same cycle as regular Mech packs?

Your "simple" P2W definition is getting more complicated and shakier all the time.


Anyway, I felt it important to provide a counter point to the P2W allegations. Thanks for the debate gentlemen. Although I am sure we will continue to disagree, I hope we are all somehow satisfied with whatever PGI decides to do concerning this issue and that they do what is best for the game overall.

[Tarogato]

Rampage, on 09 April 2017 - 01:59 AM, said:

Apparently now the argument is that it is not free enough. You do not just want it free, you want it to be free enough and easy enough to grind that you can keep up with the meta changes that comps live and die by. How many times did the core meta shift in 2016? 3? And then a bunch of smaller shifts with Mechs rising and falling from favor. So now, to avoid you defining them as P2W, even the Heroes must be free to you on the same cycle as regular Mech packs?

What if I told you that I bought the Huginn when it was massively quirked and possibly the best light brawler in the game? And then it was quirked pretty much out of existence. And then when the TDR-5S-T was uberquirked for durability and laser range, I picked that up with intent to run it in MRBC, since it was probably going to be the best ERLL mech in the game, and still incredibly useful for CW because TDRs were just good in general. And then it got nerfed right before the MRBC season started, and now it's not even a top pick for CW either.

That's ignoring that I opted to not pick up the Grid Iron, when it was possibly the best medium in the game, and I never did pick up the Oxide, which was easily the best light for a long time, not to mention the Black Widow which had a heyday before the Jade Kit came along. The meta shifts have been a bit more common and subtle than you might think. Keeping up to date with the nerfs and buffs that determine the best mechs in the game... can be expensive. Some players can afford to shell out the money to always stay on the tippy top... while some of us have to make do with second best.

Quote

Anyway, I felt it important to provide a counter point to the P2W allegations. Thanks for the debate gentlemen. Although I am sure we will continue to disagree, I hope we are all somehow satisfied with whatever PGI decides to do concerning this issue and that they do what is best for the game overall.

Yeah, this has been a good forum disagreement for once. No shitslinging. =D

[Sunstruck]

The old hero mechs are PTW too nothing new about it, Oxide, IV-4, Legenkiller, Bounty Hunter II, Spirit Bear, Scortch, need I go on ect.

[Clownwarlord]

I have to disagree with the latest heros being pay to win, why because the original posters example is a kit fox.

[Lupis Volk]

Clownwarlord, on 09 April 2017 - 03:03 AM, said:

I have to disagree with the latest heros being pay to win, why because the original posters example is a kit fox.

Yeah i do find it funny that many of the heros these people have beef with are all for mediocre chassis. It's like mediocre mechs have to stay mediocre unless they get a blessing by the forumites.

[B0oN]

Lupis Volk, on 09 April 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:

Yeah i do find it funny that many of the heros these people have beef with are all for mediocre chassis. It's like mediocre mechs have to stay mediocre unless they get a blessing by the forumites.

Blessing granted .
Now go forth and play all thine mechs .

[Bud Crue]

Tarogato, on 09 April 2017 - 02:09 AM, said:

What if I told you that I bought the Huginn when it was massively quirked and possibly the best light brawler in the game? And then it was quirked pretty much out of existence. And then when the TDR-5S-T was uberquirked for durability and laser range, I picked that up with intent to run it in MRBC, since it was probably going to be the best ERLL mech in the game, and still incredibly useful for CW because TDRs were just good in general. And then it got nerfed right before the MRBC season started, and now it's not even a top pick for CW either.

That's ignoring that I opted to not pick up the Grid Iron, when it was possibly the best medium in the game, and I never did pick up the Oxide, which was easily the best light for a long time, not to mention the Black Widow which had a heyday before the Jade Kit came along. The meta shifts have been a bit more common and subtle than you might think. Keeping up to date with the nerfs and buffs that determine the best mechs in the game... can be expensive. Some players can afford to shell out the money to always stay on the tippy top... while some of us have to make do with second best.

And this is the calm cool perspective from a skilled player with a competitive mind set. I have encountered many people with this sort of view; who see this sort of conduct by PGI as merely balance...a shifting meta...a constant aspect of the competitive environment that one must overcome.

Bah.

From my lorenerd, casual player, I'll never be good but I still try to win, perspective; I find PGI's meta shifting (P2W or not) ever shifting balance/meta/whatever efforts frustrating to the point of nearly driving me out. This isn't some strategic problem to overcome, it is a fun sucking, mech-diversity killing path to driving me and many like me right out of the game.

I WANT to play ALL the mechs. Good and bad. Meta or not. Apparently though, based on PGI's track record over the last year: according to both the meta folks AND PGI (ya know, the people who you would think would want to encourage me to buy EVERYTHING) would rather make every sub-standard mech WORSE so as to drive what few players are left into a select few "meta" mechs (aka P2W, P2Optimize, or simply those mechs that are better for whatever reason than the rest.).

This has been their business model of late: P2W or not, they introduce new and better mechs and then rather than nerfing that new and better mech (and only it) to be closer to the base line of the lesser mechs, instead they nerf everything in a seeming effort to guarantee that the newer mechs stay the best but that the older mechs are simply not any fun at all.

As a casual player (and once upon a time: massive spender) this doesn't make me think "hmm...how does this change affect my meta builds and how should I tweek them to maintain my edge; how will this shift the overall meta". but rather it makes me think "well if they are going to keep doing this crap I am not buying ANYTHING more from these people, cuz they just keep trashing everything I do buy."

TLDR:
Comp folks may see PGI's half-assed balance efforts/new mech sales conduct as just one more thing to calculate into their analysis of what is the best and how to achieve it (P2W or not); as a casual I simply look at is as a whole lot of BS, that has already lost PGI my trust and thus my $. But for their exclusive license to this IP I would not put up with this sort of "crapification of content" ($ paid or not) in any other game, platform or product. I know that there are many others who feel the same -and most are gone and not coming back. IMHO, If PGI keeps this up, all that will be left are a few hundred comp players playing about half a dozen mechs. Won't that be fun.

[Tarogato]

Bud Crue, on 09 April 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

From my lorenerd, casual player, I'll never be good but I still try to win, perspective; I find PGI's meta shifting (P2W or not) ever shifting balance/meta/whatever efforts frustrating to the point of nearly driving me out. This isn't some strategic problem to overcome, it is a fun sucking, mech-diversity killing path to driving me and many like me right out of the game.

I WANT to play ALL the mechs. Good and bad. Meta or not. Apparently though, based on PGI's track record over the last year: according to both the meta folks AND PGI (ya know, the people who you would think would want to encourage me to buy EVERYTHING) would rather make every sub-standard mech WORSE so as to drive what few players are left into a select few "meta" mechs (aka P2W, P2Optimize, or simply those mechs that are better for whatever reason than the rest.).

This has been their business model of late: P2W or not, they introduce new and better mechs and then rather than nerfing that new and better mech (and only it) to be closer to the base line of the lesser mechs, instead they nerf everything in a seeming effort to guarantee that the newer mechs stay the best but that the older mechs are simply not any fun at all.

As a casual player (and once upon a time: massive spender) this doesn't make me think "hmm...how does this change affect my meta builds and how should I tweek them to maintain my edge; how will this shift the overall meta". but rather it makes me think "well if they are going to keep doing this crap I am not buying ANYTHING more from these people, cuz they just keep trashing everything I do buy."

TLDR:
Comp folks may see PGI's half-assed balance efforts/new mech sales conduct as just one more thing to calculate into their analysis of what is the best and how to achieve it (P2W or not); as a casual I simply look at is as a whole lot of BS, that has already lost PGI my trust and thus my $. But for their exclusive license to this IP I would not put up with this sort of "crapification of content" ($ paid or not) in any other game, platform or product. I know that there are many others who feel the same -and most are gone and not coming back. IMHO, If PGI keeps this up, all that will be left are a few hundred comp players playing about half a dozen mechs. Won't that be fun.

It's not really PGI's fault though, that so many newly released mechs are better than old ones. PGI is slave to Battletech as you're well aware, and they've stuck to releasing mechs roughly in the order of timeline (3rd then 4th succession wars, then Clan invasion, and now Fedcom civil war. I wonder if they'll actually make it to Jihad before shutting the game down... ), and also in order of popularity and iconic status.

But have PGI themselves actually goofed at times? Yeah, for sure. For one thing, the HBK-IIC-A didn't have to have four energy hardpoints mounted practically to the roof of its high-mounted cockpit, also with the best geometry of any of the variants. The Kodiak 3 didn't have to have four ballistics (though I admit, I did make the same mistake back in my old thread.) The Cataphract didn't have to be as wide as a bus. The Locust didn't need to be made the size of a protomech.

You could look at it cynically, and suppose that PGI is just trying to push people to buy the new best mech by either releasing new better mechs (again, more the fault of the source material and not PGI)... and/or that they are buffing and nerfing mechs to force people into constantly investing to keep up. But I don't think that's it either, I chalk it more up to incompetence. PGI don't actually play their game at a level requisite to make balancing decisions, and they misinterpret metrics. They actually don't know what they're doing, and that's why some mechs remain on the top for so long, and when they are finally nerfed, they are nuked out of existence instead of stepped down to proper balance. Now I have high hopes for the new guy, Chris... he talks like he's knows what he's doing, and he's actually playing the game. But do I hope we start seeing the fruits of his efforts soon, because he's been here quite a few months and we haven't seen much in the way of good, needed changes.

[Bud Crue]

Tarogato, on 09 April 2017 - 04:37 AM, said:

It's not really PGI's fault though...

You could look at it cynically, and suppose that PGI is just trying to push people to buy the new best mech by either releasing new better mechs (again, more the fault of the source material and not PGI)... and/or that they are buffing and nerfing mechs to force people into constantly investing to keep up. But I don't think that's it either, I chalk it more up to incompetence. PGI don't actually play their game at a level requisite to make balancing decisions, and they misinterpret metrics. They actually don't know what they're doing, and that's why some mechs remain on the top for so long, and when they are finally nerfed, they are nuked out of existence instead of stepped down to proper balance. Now I have high hopes for the new guy, Chris... he talks like he's knows what he's doing, and he's actually playing the game. But do I hope we start seeing the fruits of his efforts soon, because he's been here quite a few months and we haven't seen much in the way of good, needed changes.

Cynical marketing ploy or incompetence/ignorannce of their own product, makes no difference to me (I for one agree...its incompetence), their conduct has cost them my $. As such I don't much care if the new mechs are P2W or merely good, bad or somewhere in between. Their conduct...regardless of its origin...has cost them a lot of good will, a lot of "benefit of the doubt" to the extent that I for one no longer am willing to give them my money. I, and I think many others wanted a game where all mechs were competitive and had a role (that was still a stated goal of Paul's within the last year) and be it out of incompetence or cynical marketing, they have utterly failed to deliver on that goal and I am done giving them money in hopes that they ever will.

So are some of the new mechs P2W? Maybe. Will Russ nerf them as he has promissed to on twitter? Of course he will, right along with a lot of obviously crappier mechs. Thus, ensuring that what is good gets nerfed ("we don't do P2W in MWO") but that what is good remains better than everything else...at least until the next "best" mech is released.

I don't care if that is the result oc cynical marketing or their incompetence. I simply know that I am done buying it.

[Zergling]

TercieI, on 07 April 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

He's not one of just a few, actually. He's right, the Purifier is just plain strong. 6ERML or 7SPL. Both rek.

Even with just 4x ER Medium Lasers and a heap of heatsinks for best possible sustained ridge humping DPS, it is still great.

[Clownwarlord]

OK can some one tell me which hero mechs are ptw? So I can dispute them each one at a time.

[Requiemking]

Clownwarlord, on 09 April 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

OK can some one tell me which hero mechs are ptw? So I can dispute them each one at a time.

Well, according to the meta-whiners, every single one of the most recent wave of Clan Heros, as well as Purifier.

[Mcgral18]

Rampage, on 09 April 2017 - 01:59 AM, said:

The longer this discussion goes on the more I am convinced that your definition of P2W is more self-serving than it is accurate.

One of you has stated that you got the Purifier, which has been the shining example of P2W in this thread, for free. The other one stated that you could get the Purifier for free but might want to spend your, event won, MC on the MKII instead. (Why? That will only save you a month in getting it free with C-Bills.)

You both stated that you do not spend money on this game.


You both have shown that the Purifier is, in fact, not paywalled and can be had for free. Apparently now the argument is that it is not free enough. You do not just want it free, you want it to be free enough and easy enough to grind that you can keep up with the meta changes that comps live and die by. How many times did the core meta shift in 2016? 3? And then a bunch of smaller shifts with Mechs rising and falling from favor. So now, to avoid you defining them as P2W, even the Heroes must be free to you on the same cycle as regular Mech packs?

Your "simple" P2W definition is getting more complicated and shakier all the time.


Anyway, I felt it important to provide a counter point to the P2W allegations. Thanks for the debate gentlemen. Although I am sure we will continue to disagree, I hope we are all somehow satisfied with whatever PGI decides to do concerning this issue and that they do what is best for the game overall.

I'd like to object, asking you how many can get into MC winning categories of WC and MRBC
That's where the bulk of my MC (non-Buying, I have gotten chunks in the past) have come from
1k most recently unlocked
~3k from a Tourneys (their payouts have dropped...)

And that's enough for Light mech Heroes not on sale, and almost a 50% off Assault
It's those Loot Bag events which are the more likely MC source for non-Payers
And CW, I guess. Don't you get 10k MC from one of the top (holy balls the GRIND FEST) ranks?
That could get you a full price 100 ton Hero
It would also take MANY DOZENs of hours of Grind...


If they increase the frequency of the events, or drop the price of the Heroes, you could have a point. But, the Assault Heroes are generally unfeasible unless you play a lot (Tourney/Comp events), or pay money.



Though, the only Loot Bag I've actually completed did net 610 MC
The original Stocking Stuffer, 2015 I think.

So, 2400 MC a year would allow for some Light 100% and Med 50%...assuming you want to sit through 25 Invasion matches...That was rough.
Someone who's completed others go and count them
Sample sizes of 1 is no good.



The definition of P2W
Or, more specifically, Pay to have an Advantage over Free Players is still true

[Elizander]

Well, based on how things turned out with the Dragon Slayer Victor, it's not really an issue unless it is a must-have mech for competitive play.

[Mcgral18]

Clownwarlord, on 09 April 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

OK can some one tell me which hero mechs are ptw? So I can dispute them each one at a time.

UltraViolent has the highest, long range DPS in the game
It's also a Whale, so not without its own disadvantages

Purifier is the best Poking Light, having 4 high mounted ERMLs, JJs, ECM, and can bring up to 6 ERMLs effectively. Adder caps at 5, no ECM, no JJs, more durable. One high mounted, three not too low
Cheetah has two high mounts, and insufficient cooling for more than 4 (hence SPLs)
It also doubles the amount of useful hardpoints the Cute Fox gets, ignoring the outright superior mounts. 7 SPLs is a viable loadout, FYI, with enough cooling. GH is less than an extra SPL


Myth Lynx going from 4->6 Lasers. Enough said

Ice Fridge getting ECM
Pure advantage over non ECM, already the most durable fast mover

Mr Gargles getting ST hardpoints, period.

Then there's almost every Wave 2 getting optimization, which some say is P2W, but not to the degree which makes me worry. Hellbringer with 6 high torso mounts (2RT), which results in +1 ton (from Shield LA) and the extra poke power

Elizander, on 09 April 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Well, based on how things turned out with the Dragon Slayer Victor, it's not really an issue unless it is a must-have mech for competitive play.

What do you mean by this?

A Mech can remain the best mech in the game for over a year, as long as it gets significant nerfs to multiple facets of its existence at the end of it, and then gets buried by Power Creep?

[Tarogato]

Clownwarlord, on 09 April 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

OK can some one tell me which hero mechs are ptw? So I can dispute them each one at a time.

lol, here we go. Might as well go down the list of my opinions.


Pirates Bane - nope, the LCT-1E and LCT-3M are better.

Death's Knell - nope, having 4 energy on huge arms is a liability - missile variants are better.

Anansi - nope, the SDR-5K is the best by far.

Ember - nope, as long as MGs are mediocre. Was P2W a long time ago.

Oxide - yes P2W. Energy Jenners aren't that great, and the Oxide will consistently outperform all of them.

Huginn - nope, not really anymore. Was P2W when it had much better quirks.

Purifer - yes P2W. Kitfoxes are held back by their poor geometry and lack of hardpoints. Purifer fixes this by giving it high hardpoints and allowing proper boating.

Cinder - nope, not really. More optimal for UAC2s, but they aren't particularly great on the Adder anyways.

Dark-Death - nope. Has probably the worst hardpoints of all the Assassins.

X-5 - nope. It's the best quirked Cicada for ERLL, but that's not a particularly suit for it.

Arrow - nope. It's the best quirked Blackjack for LPL and ERLL, but the low mount holds it back.

Kuroi Kiri - nope. The PXH-2 and PXH-1K are better.

Roc - nope. Hodge-podge of hardpoints is pretty worthless.

St. Ives Blues - nope. Not enough hardpoints to be good at what it does.

Yen-Lo-Wang - not really. It's probably the best zombie Cent, but zombie Cents aren't really a thing anymore.

Grid Iron - not anymore. Used to be one of the best comp mediums when it had 50% gauss cooldown, though, and that was P2W.

Loup de Guerre - not really. It could almost be the best brawling Treb, but it falls apart more readily than the -7M.

High Roller - nope. Doesn't really do anything the -P2 or -X2 can't.

Sparky - not really. The best loadouts rely on using the arms, and the arms fall off very easily.

Golden Boy - nope. KTO-18 does the same thing better.

Gray Death - nope. Mix of hardpoints that doesn't really work well for a 55-tonner.

Quarantine - nope. Jack of all trades syndrome.

Medusa - nope. VPR-C stock config is the best, and going beyond 6 energy doesn't work really well on this platform.

Pakhet - yes, P2W. Allows for the tightest convergence SRMs on the Huntsman, or allows you to stack more missiles than would otherwise be possible, and the Huntsman has the available tonnage to make it work.

Breaker - kinda but not really. Being harder to stick is definitely an advantage, but suffers from torso vs arm aiming issues. Personally, I would probably run my 12 cSPL with three of them in the torso, which allows me to take the pulse quirk arm, and still have weapons if I lose both arms. Sounds like an advantage, smells like an advantage, but I'm not thoroughly convinced.

Lacerator - nope, ballistics is something the SCR is not suited for. Might be a mild concern if gauss wasn't nerfed into the ground, because having a right-mounted gauss is usually better than left... but even then it's not actually discernibly better.

Fang - no, DRG-1N is better.

Flame - not really. Can't put gauss in it, because explodey torso, so your best option is kinda an AC20 or AC10, but it's still limited by the low slung arm hardpoints.

IV-Four - yes P2W. Easily the best brawling Quickdraw with the most DPS, most durability, and most mobility. Wouldn't really be a problem if QKD-4H were buffed up with brawling in mind.

Legend Killer - almost, but the stark contrast between this and the other Rifleman isn't as extreme as the IV-Four with the other Quickdraws. Also, it just doesn't have good geometry for brawling.

Jester - yes P2W. It basically does the same thing as a Grasshopper but for 5 tons less. It's really useful for tonnage based drops (CW decks), and really the only 65-tonner the IS has that can do the job well (5 LL, 5 ERLL)

Butterbee - nope. CPLT-A1 is superior.

Firebrand - not really. It just has poor geometry for its hardpoints, and the other Jagers work better.

Tallman - not really. The TDR-5SS is still better at MPL, the -5S is still better at LL, and 9 energy is just an awkward number for a 65-tonner.

Tempest - nope. It's really the only ECM laservomit heavy the IS has, but it just doesn't have the right hardpoints for the job. Poor geometry for brawling, and the ECM isn't really that useful for a lurmboat. It's not superior to the other Archers.

Ilya Muromets - kinda P2W. It's still the only IS heavy that can mount three large ballistics, and while it's held back by poor geometry and hardpoint locations, so are the other Cataphracts. It's actually kinda hard to judge, since Cataphracts are terrible and I'm not very familiar with them.

Black Widow - yes P2W. Has the best sustained firepower of any IS heavy, coupled with decent durability. Was used extensively in competitive play until replaced by the Night Gyr, but is still supreme on the IS side of things which is relevant for CW.

Bounty Hunter II - nope. Too slow to do most things other than gauss, and IS gauss is terribad. The other MADs are better.

Protector - not anymore. Was used in competitive play as gauss+ERLL before clan PPFLD took over the meta, but now it just can't compete with the meta, and the other Orions are more viable.

Redline - kinda P2W. Allows for 6 energy in the torsos which would otherwise be impossible, and is ideal for cMPL which is one of the best builds on the chassis. Also allows for better boating of cSPL, but tbh I'm not sure of the viability of that - I haven't tried it myself nor seen it in practice.

Pride - nope. Doesn't do anything that the SMN-D, SMN-F and SMN-M can't do better.

Jade Kite - yes P2W. Allows for proper UAC2 boating. You can sorta get away with 5x UAC2, but 6x UAC2 is superior and has been used in competitive play. I think this omnipod also allows for a few other ballistic builds to be better optimised, but I don't remember them off hand. Also, it has the best quirks for gauss+2PPC, which I believe has also been employed competitively (but don't quote me on that one, lol)

Warrant - nope. Doesn't really allow anything better than the Timber can already do. It does offer a RT-energy without the jumpjet tax, but that doesn't really have any solid applications that I know of.

Pretty Baby - nope. Almost universally regarded as the worst mech in the game.

Dragon Slayer - not anymore. Was the best mech in the game a very very long time ago, but it's not even necessarily the best Victor anymore.

Hellslinger - nope. It doesn't do anything terribly unique, and the other Battlemasters are just better.

Misery - not really. Used to be good with gauss ERLL, but that's just suicidal now. It's great at deadsiding with AC20, but if you wanna brawl you might as well go full splatdildo, it smashes faces much better.

Sleipnir - I'm not sure. I thought this would be better than the MAL at quad UAC5 because of the superior geometry, but people tell me that the MAL's quirks still make it better. Being the same tonnage and configuration as the MAL, as long as it's not better than the MAL, it's fine.

Heavy Metal - I don't think so. I have no idea what builds this runs and I've heard conflicting opinions on whether it's the best or worst Highlander, to the point where I'm just confused.

La Malinche - nope. Just has terrible hardpoint locations.

Boar's Head - nope. Has terrible hardpoint locations for running energy builds, and the AS7-S brawls better.

Scorch - yes P2W. Does 2gauss+2PPC better than the the other MAD-IICs, and the only 85-tonner that can, and also the only 85-tonner that can LB40+SRM24, which is one of the best assault brawling loadouts in the game, it absolutely smashes things and has fantastic hitboxes.

Nanuq - nope. Really best suited for 2x UAC10, but it's almost a liability to have both on the same arm. The other 3-energy arm also doesn't really have any good applications, and if it did, then the MAD-IIC would be better at them.

Boiler - almost P2W. Can do 2gauss+2PPC, or LB40+splat, but it's too slow, has mediocre hitboxes, and the MCII will overshadow it.

Ultraviolet - yes P2W. Allows for max UAC2 spam, which is actually superior to what the other DWFs allow, and also allows you to skip the jumpjet tax on side torso energy hardpoints, which allows optimisations on a number of builds.

Reaver - not sure yet. Could be really good with two LB10 and MPLs, but I suspect it will be mediocre and you'd be better stacking MPLs on the RGH-3A or mixing LB10+splat on the other variants.

Hi There! - nope. Inferior to the JVN-11A for energy, and inferior to the other Javlins for splat brawling.

Grinner - potentially P2W. The first real ECM light for the IS, and basically does the same as the FS9-S and other WLFs, but adds ECM on top of it, which makes it much more effective. Likely wouldn't be a problem if we had the FS9-S1 in the game.

K-9 - yes potential P2W. The Urbie is severely limited by the number of energy hardpoints it has, and the K-9 gets an extra one. Now it can boat 5 MPL, or LPL + 4ML, which might make it fairly viable, and superior to the other Urbies.

Katana Kat - nope. Panther has enough trouble keeping one arm, and enjoys being able to strip the spare for tonnage. The hero will inferior.

Florentine - potential P2W. Might be able to run two UAC5 better than the ENF-5P, but it might get held back by a lack of quirks so it's probably not an issue.

Ghillie - potential P2W. Allows you to take two staple ENF-4R builds (4LL, AC10+MPL) and add ECM to them. Potentially a straight upgrade.

Mjölnir - probably not, but I'm not sure. Can't run AC20, so stuck at AC10 or gauss at most. I expect it to be inferior to laserboating Grasshoppers and therefore not a concern.

Partisan - potential P2W. Could be the best AC20 heavy in the game. But I'm not sure yet.

Skokomish - I'm not sure. I don't expect this to do anything better than the other Zeuses. (Zei?) Sure, it reaches that magical four missile hardpoint mark, but the convergence will be meh and I'm not sure it's quite powerful enough to be a really useful brawler at 80 tons, imo. But it can go up to 112 kph (more realistically 105), so... maybe it could be the best 80-ton IS brawler? I doubt it, but it's super hard for me to judge.

Knockout - I'm not sure. Might be able to run something like dual LB10 + SRM24a, or gaussPPC but I haven't built it out, and I'm not sure if it would be viable. Regardless, it's slow, so I doubt it will be the best Mauler or the best anything.

Kaiju - I don't expect this to do anything better than the other King Crabs. Explosive gauss is a bad idea, mounts are too low for rangey lasers, and brawly lasers just won't be as good as running other builds on other Krabs.

Belial - nope, won't do anything better than the other Uziels.

Mean Baby - nope, what are you gonna do with 4 missile and 6 arm energy at 52 kph?

Blood Adder - nope. Limited by crit slots in the torsos, so there's not really any room for optimisations.

Deathstrike - potential P2W, but probably not. Dual gauss or dual UACs with 6 lasers could be good, but not as good as just running 2gauss2ppc or running LB+splat. Though we might be surprised, if dualgauss+2LPL+4med turns out really good. Kinda like the alphavomit DWF, but less alpha and more speed. I dunno, could be really scary, and the only mech in the game that can do it. We'll have to see.

Shard - nope, doesn't do anything better than the other ACH's.

Mishipeshu - yes P2W. Allows the Shadow Cat to take four SRM6a, which makes it the only mech in the game with good splat alpha, ECM, and very high speed. Definitely superior to any other brawling Shadow Cat, elevating its status from "can almost brawl" to "can definitely brawl."

Esprit de Corps - not really. Dual high mounted ballistics looks good and sounds good, but when you start building them out, you realise it's not as optimised as going dual right-sided. I don't see this as a P2W issue, but others might.

Cherbi - yes P2W. Allows the EXE to take six SRM6a (and even a fist full of lasers), which could make it one of if not the scariest brawler in the game, for it has incredible speed, JJs, decent hitboxes, and the convergence won't be terrible.

Kin Wolf - nope. Unlike the hero EXE, the GAR does not have enough tonnage to really use SRMs. So running SPL will still be superior.

Ebon Dragoon - yes P2W. I believe this is the first Mist Lynx to ever have energy in a torso, which is a huge boon to the chassis, as it can not be dis-armed so easily. It can now add ECM to its previous build of 4SPL/med, and it can now run 6 smalls, which will actually make it a pretty good 25-ton mech. Also will be the superior configuration for ECM+6smalls when we get the MLX-F arms in the game.

Rainbow Crow - yes P2W. The IFR is one of the highest sustained DPS "light mechs" in the game, and also runs 5 meds pretty cool. It's biggest problem is that it can't use its speed to get to places without often being spotted, and when it draws attention to itself, it tends to lose its arms very quickly. ECM will fix this problem, it will now be able to flank properly, and it will be effective at trading with ERML - probably better than any other fast mech in the 35-50 ton range.

Virago - yes P2W. Removes the Hellbringer's weakness of always being left-side heavy. It can now be built symmetrically for 2LPL+3ERML, and this also opens up the possibility of LPL+5ERML all torso mounted, as well as mounting 4 ERLL favouring the right side. It's a straight upgrade for the chassis.

Bandit - potential P2W, but not really. Can do ballistic builds with much better optimisation than before, and also for 6 tons less than the EBJ. The problem is that gauss is too explosive, and UAC10s have been nerfed into the ground, so imo, it's not really a P2W issue.