46 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

If the DS had access to Clan ER PPC/Gauss it would be a solid 80 tonner. Very solid. If they ever get around to releasing the -9A, it should be able to do something like this (including a little something else in the left torso that happens to weigh 15 tons) which would be pretty solid.. dropping a JJ gets you to an XL320.

Oh I know, I was just illustrating a point, that on paper the Victor is a strong unit, in actual game play how ever, it suffers compared to newer mechs.... Perhaps I should've said a Highlander to make the point?

What I mean about the MK. II is that we out knowing how well it rolls damage, or how large the weapon arms are actually going to be, it is going to be hard to guesstimate just how good or bad of unit it will be. I'm inclined to go with middle of the pack for now, not Kodiak 3 strong, but not Victor (or Highlander) bad... maybe some where around Marauder IIC or Supernova for viability.

[Gas Guzzler]

Metus regem, on 07 April 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

Oh I know, I was just illustrating a point, that on paper the Victor is a strong unit, in actual game play how ever, it suffers compared to newer mechs.... Perhaps I should've said a Highlander to make the point?

What I mean about the MK. II is that we out knowing how well it rolls damage, or how large the weapon arms are actually going to be, it is going to be hard to guesstimate just how good or bad of unit it will be. I'm inclined to go with middle of the pack for now, not Kodiak 3 strong, but not Victor (or Highlander) bad... maybe some where around Marauder IIC or Supernova for viability.

Oh yeah.
But still, a year from now I see MRBC drop 5 consisting of two KDK-3s, a Mad Cat Mk. II, and a Marauder IIC-C all with dual gauss and dual ER PPCs. Glorious!

The other thing I like is that if the Mad Cat Mk. II loses one of its arms, it can still poke with 2 ER PPC- Gauss.. that's still pretty effective.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 07 April 2017 - 08:34 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

But still, a year from now I see MRBC drop 5 consisting of two KDK-3s, a Mad Cat Mk. II, and a Marauder IIC-C all with dual gauss and dual ER PPCs. Glorious!

well for starters they could reduce the range on erppcs back to their tabletop range of 690m. 810m is absurd.

[Metus regem]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

Oh yeah.
But still, a year from now I see MRBC drop 5 consisting of two KDK-3s, a Mad Cat Mk. II, and a Marauder IIC-C all with dual gauss and dual ER PPCs. Glorious!

Well now the IS just needs something viable on their side to counterbalance that kind of power... makes me really sad to see that IS is getting the Annihilator... I would've greatly preferred the Devistator, Nightstar, Cerberus, Thunderhawk, Pillager, Gunslinger, Black Watch, Emperor or Fafnir over the Annihilator....

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 07 April 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

well for starters they could reduce the range on erppcs back to their tabletop range of 690m. 810m is absurd.

That won't make that much of a difference.

Don't get me wrong, its only dominant in that drop because of how slow the teams are because they have to have 4 assaults. In lighter drops, brawl rushing can counter it on many maps.

Metus regem, on 07 April 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

Well now the IS just needs something viable on their side to counterbalance that kind of power... makes me really sad to see that IS is getting the Annihilator... I would've greatly preferred the Devistator, Nightstar, Cerberus, Thunderhawk, Pillager, Gunslinger, Black Watch, Emperor or Fafnir over the Annihilator....

The Annihilator [awkwardly] takes care of the dakka role. Fafnir/Sagittaire would probably be the only two that would come close to de-seating the Marauder-IIC-C in that drop, and even then its not a for-sure. Maybe the Nightstar would as well, depends on the speed and how wide it is.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeah, so a Fafnir should be able to do it with an LFE320 and ECM and 13DHS, maybe better if it can strip an arm some. That would be solid.

Sagittaire I would just go XL because it doesn't have the goose in the side.

[Khobai]

Quote

That won't make that much of a difference.

Don't get me wrong, its only dominant in that drop because of how slow the teams are because they have to have 4 assaults. In lighter drops, brawl rushing can counter it on many maps.

but the point is it still shouldnt have an 810m range. it should only be 690m.

[FLG 01]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

Sagittaire I would just go XL because it doesn't have the goose in the side.

Fafnir -6U has its ballistic hardpoints in the arms (UAC/20s), and energy hp in the torsos. So dual Gauss in the arms is no problem, if that's what you want.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FLG 01, on 07 April 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

Fafnir -6U has its ballistic hardpoints in the arms (UAC/20s), and energy hp in the torsos. So dual Gauss in the arms is no problem, if that's what you want.

The problem is the Fafnir is a wider design than the Sagittaire, which is why it is less acceptable.

Khobai, on 07 April 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

but the point is it still shouldnt have an 810m range. it should only be 690m.

Do you remember the reason WHY it was bumped to 810m? I do, it had to do with the iERPPC being worthless compared to the iPPC. The heat was just too damn high for a weapon that only got 150m extra range (and no min, but honestly the PPC having min range is stupid too). The iERLL should have less range than it does as well, (I think 570m or something like that) but was bumped up for the same reason (except they lowered the heat a lot as well).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 April 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

FLG 01, on 07 April 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

Fafnir -6U has its ballistic hardpoints in the arms (UAC/20s), and energy hp in the torsos. So dual Gauss in the arms is no problem, if that's what you want.

There are pluses and minuses to both. Fafnir is a mech that won't like an XL engine anyway with those ample chest cannons, so going KDK-3 style with an LFE and stripped off dead arm might be the better option. Still, its much slower. Width is also a factor.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 07 April 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Do you remember the reason WHY it was bumped to 810m? I do, it had to do with the iERPPC being worthless compared to the iPPC.

except ERPPC velocity used to be much lower then and heat was higher. its velocity has been raised significantly since then. the heat has also been lowered. so the range should go back to 690m.

ERPPC's range is totally out of whack with other long range weapons. It needs to be brought back into parity.

Especially with the new PPC types being introduced this summer.

Edited by Khobai, 07 April 2017 - 09:26 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Fafnir looking like:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a285756b8b6b359

But with ECM instead of BAP, LFE instead of XL, and MAYBE one more DHS, depends on where the LFE325 mass lands.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 07 April 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

except ERPPC velocity used to be much lower then.

No, it wasn't. It was actually faster, as it has had 810m range during the 2000m/s era. In fact I think they've had 810m range since the beginning of Open Beta.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 April 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 April 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

(and no min, but honestly the PPC having min range is stupid too

If PGI was consistant with mimum ranges it would be perfectlly accepitble... how ever, what PGI has done is this:

Gauss Rifle:
Minimum range 2 (60m)
TT effect: Harder to target hit at 2 hexes or less
MWO effect: Charge up

AC/2
Minimum range: 4 (120m)
TT effect: Harder to target hit at 4 hexes or less
MWO Effect: Ignored

AC/5:
Minimum range: 3 (90m, same as a PPC)
TT effect: Harder to target hit at 3 hexes or less
MWO Effect: Ignored

UAC/5:
Minimum range: 2 (60m, same as a Gauss)
TT effect: Harder to target hit at 2 hexes or less
MWO Effect: Ignored

IS-LRM/s:
Mimum range: 6 (180m)
Minimum range: 3 (90m, same as a PPC)
TT effect: Harder to target hit at 6 hexes or less
MWO Effect: No damage dealt below 180m

PPC:
Minimum range: 3 (90m, same as an AC/5)
TT effect: Harder to target hit at 3 hexes or less
MWO Effect: No damage dealt below 90m


So as we can see, that is 3 different ways that PGI has chosen to deal with minimum range in MWO, and it is only going to get worse with the tech advancement coming this summer... Are they going to screw over the HPPC and LPPC in the same way as the normal PPC? I ask that, as the HPPC and LPPC have the same range profile as the normal PPC.... What are they going to do to the IS UAC/2, LB-2/5 or the HGR?

[FLG 01]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

Fafnir is a mech that won't like an XL engine anyway with those ample chest cannons

Quite right. I was merely pointing out the Fafnir can mount the dual gauss in the arms, thus avoiding the problem of a potentially exploding GR in the ST.
What I would do with the Fafnir depends greatly on how (well) the new weapons work. But with the variants offered by the Fafnir, I am sure I won't be disappointed, even if it is 'just' the old dual PPC plus dual gauss.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 07 April 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

If PGI was consistant with mimum ranges it would be perfectlly accepitble...

No, it really wouldn't, because it is a stupid mechanic in an FPS game. It is meant to simulate inaccuracy, not mean it does no damage no matter how good you are.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 April 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 07 April 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

except ERPPC velocity used to be much lower then and heat was higher. its velocity has been raised significantly since then. the heat has also been lowered. so the range should go back to 690m.

ERPPC's range is totally out of whack with other long range weapons. It needs to be brought back into parity.

Especially with the new PPC types being introduced this summer.

Calling BS. There is nothing out of parity with ER PPC range. If it had shorter range it wouldn't be worth it. Certainly the Inner Sphere version anyway.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 April 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

No, it really wouldn't, because it is a stupid mechanic in an FPS game. It is meant to simulate inaccuracy, not mean it does no damage no matter how good you are.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if they made all weapons that had minimum range work like that, then it would be in line with that. I'd rather that the PPC had a charge mechanic like the Gauss Rilfe, how ever PGI has been very inconsistent with how it handles the minimum range issue... it should be ignored all together... thanks to how LRM's work their tracking ability is lack luster the closer the target is, so that's covered with out stripping them of their damage.

[Gas Guzzler]

Also... does anyone else think the non-MW4 art for the Fafnir looks a lot better? Specifically the torso/cockpit.

Also: This thread has been quite derailed. Sorry about that!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Also... does anyone else think the non-MW4 art for the Fafnir looks a lot better? Specifically the torso/cockpit.

Only the torso/cockpit look better, the legs are too fat and the arms are too nubby in the TRO.