96 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Lupis Volk, on 09 April 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

I think for MC would be good, but then we'd need to know roughly how much each Omni cost's MC wise.

before i calculated an OmniPod costs roughtly 6% of a mechs C-Bill Price,
so i think the same would be a good starting point for HeroPods,

SHC hero will cost 4220MC, 6% would be 255ish MC per HeroPod, i think thats good to Start,

[Lupis Volk]

Andi Nagasia, on 09 April 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

before i calculated an OmniPod costs roughtly 6% of a mechs C-Bill Price,
so i think the same would be a good starting point for HeroPods,

SHC hero will cost 4220MC, 6% would be 255ish MC per HeroPod, i think thats good to Start,

That'd be about fair for me i think.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 09 April 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Though, before we leave, we must make an important statement:

Don't balance by Potato



If he can't understand how the game is played, or what makes those builds good, he isn't a good choice in debating balance

Aside from the fact he can't make an argument, of course.

That was a low blow. <smh>

[Requiemking]

Mystere, on 09 April 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

That was a low blow. <smh>

It really is.

[Tarogato]

Khobai, on 09 April 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Thats like saying the Locust is the best 20 tonner in the game.

It still doesnt mean the mech is any good.

The hero gargoyle is hardly pay2win because gargoyles are quite frankly not very good assault mechs. Omnimechs that try to fit large engines without taking endosteel tend to be pretty bad when it comes to podspace. And assaults need podspace.

In most cases the Timberwolf is outright better. Or the Marauder IIC if you go 5 tons heavier.

I suspect you haven't been following what the competitive players have been doing. Gargoyle is incredibly common in Star League 6v6. You won't hardly see a mech like the Kodiak in that league because they are too heavy, and the Gargoyle is incredibly efficient. Having 87kph pinpoint 12 small pulse with hefty durability is a very attractive option, and teams are actually spending their double-up on Gargoyles because their speed and damage is just so incredibly critical for a brawl.

Also, Locusts are one of the best lights in the game right now, period. The top four really are ACH, LCT, SDR-5K, JR7-IIC, and they're used depending on which role is desired. If you don't believe that the Locust is one of the best lights, then you're living like 8 months in the past.

But really, I'm not that worried about the Gargoyle's hero pods. It doesn't really have the tonnage to take advantage of missile hardpoints, and 12 SPL will just be the better option, so it's not a P2W concern at all.

[Sjorpha]

P2W is any kilnd of paywalled gameplay advantage. Overpowered is whatever causes a the meta to narrow beyond whatever point you deem unacceptable for competitive diversity.

How much and what kind of p2w amd imbalance are ok to have in the game is a more interesting question imo, I actually don't think it has to be 0.

[Burning2nd]

listen... 43 mastered mechs and a bunch of hero's, some of what ive won and a couple Ive bought,

I can tell you i have no problem with people buying what ever they think is going to make them a better pilot,

There is nothing more satisfying then tearing apart a brand new purchased mech piece by piece limb by limb In a 19.8 ton mini pos,

At the end of the day you can buy what ever you want.... its not going to make you any better of a pilot...


personally if you stupid enough to buy something that you can get for free cause your impatient.... Then by all means continue.... as a mater of fact you take the lead.. Ill cover the rear flank lol

Edited by Burnin2nd, 10 April 2017 - 12:35 AM.

[Lupis Volk]

Sjorpha, on 10 April 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

How much and what kind of p2w amd imbalance are ok to have in the game is a more interesting question imo, I actually don't think it has to be 0.

Following this train of thought. Would it be P2W is a series of mediocre mechs with an assortment of issues that limit their usability had hero's that have pods that gave a wider diversity of build options, but the mech itself still suffers from the issues it chassis suffers from?

[Khobai]

Quote

I suspect you haven't been following what the competitive players have been doing. Gargoyle is incredibly common in Star League 6v6

Ok but thats because starleague 6v6 imposes a different set of rules that make the gargoyle more appealing.

I could just as easily run my own league called khobai 6v6 league with a 120 ton limit.

suddenly the locust would be the best mech in that league.

so I dont really see your point. because when we discuss how good or bad a mech is we arnt talking about custom leagues. were talking about quickplay.

[Vellron2005]

My opinion on this matter:

Pay 2 Win - If you can have something that makes you alot better in the game that non-paying players can't get.

Heroes with better pods than regular mechs.. weeeeell... depends.. are they really THAT better? OK, maybe you get one hard point here and there.. that's ok.. a Hero is supposed to be different and somewhat better overall?

Will said hero be able to outperform any other mech of its varian/class/in the game? Don't think so..

Same way people cry Kodiaks or locusts are OP.. they are powerfull, but they don't do something that no other mech in the game can do, or can fight against..

Personally..

I really don't care about the hero mechs, I wish PGI stopped making so many mechs and made more maps and immersion for the game..

I know, I know.. they need the money.. but there are MANY ways they could get that other than mechs..

[Moomtazz]

It seems pretty simple to me. Compare two things. If one gives a meaningful performance advantage over the other, and it can only be obtained by paying real money, it is Pay to Win.

When Hero mechs first came out, there was alot of talk about ensuring that they were not Pay2Win. People were willing to pay cash for the C-Bill boost and/or cosmetics. Most of the Heroes were not the best variants with regard to performance and hard points, so people didn't complain much. I always saw it as taking a penalty so that I could increase my C-bill earnings, since I have a life and don't have the time it takes to grind out enough C-bills to support my mech collecting habit.

However there were always some exceptions, and as time went on more and more Heroes were Pay2Win at least for awhile until being nerfed. They were never nerfed until players were given ample time to buy each Pay2Win hero though.

Examples of early Pay2Win aka best variants: Yen Lo Wang, Ilya Muromets, Dragon Slayer (YLW was the only AC20 Cent for a year or more, then they gave a loyalty Cent with AC20. Not long after Cents were outclassed, same with Cataphracts and Victors.)

Later examples: Oxide, Huggin, Top Dawg

Current: Purifier

[Athom83]

Mcgral18, on 09 April 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

If he can't understand how the game is played, or what makes those builds good, he isn't a good choice in debating balance
Aside from the fact he can't make an argument, of course.

Mcgral18, on 09 April 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

That's objective
Sub 200 AMS

Mcgral18, on 09 April 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

If you had the ability to use Critical Thinking, you wouldn't be asking those question
Reported
Ignored

Your last 2 posts both fall under the "name & shame" rule. Your other post falls under "Abuse or MIsuse of Reporting System". Also, by doing this you're also breaking the "Harassment/Defamation/Insults/Toxicity" rule. Which finally breaks the "Spamming/Trolling/Unconstructive Behavior" rule. Breaking the codes of conduct to make your argument is not a good way of going about things.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I can't wait to see the SRM + SPL gargoyles changing peoples' minds about it being an ineffective mech. The scorch and spirit bear are advantaged in pure alpha, but the sustain and speed of mr gargs will be quite something in group queue, especially when it keeps pace with almost every other dangerous clan mech

It's about time we saw some more nova + gargs pushes, with ebon jags + hunchie IICs bringing up the second line fire support in group queue, where efficient tonnage usage is critical as a larger group, and all of those mechs can keep up with one another

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 10 April 2017 - 05:22 AM.

[R Valentine]

They could always try not adding new omnipods and just releasing heroes as a shiny paint job variant with a 30% c-bill boost. That'd work too. Heresy, I know. Who needs balance when you have "unique"?

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 09 April 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

That was a low blow. <smh>

What else do you do when someone is unreasonable?
Provide solid evidence against it


Let's go ahead and quote:

Lupis Volk, on 09 April 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

Why should i listen to cherry picking hypocritical man children? Please enlighten me oh great lord.

That's certainly not an argument

Athom83, on 10 April 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Your last 2 posts both fall under the "name & shame" rule. Your other post falls under "Abuse or MIsuse of Reporting System". Also, by doing this you're also breaking the "Harassment/Defamation/Insults/Toxicity" rule. Which finally breaks the "Spamming/Trolling/Unconstructive Behavior" rule. Breaking the codes of conduct to make your argument is not a good way of going about things.

Well hello Mr Moderator
Perhaps you should go and analyse his previous posts?

No?
Hm....

[Athom83]

Mcgral18, on 10 April 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

Well hello Mr Moderator
Perhaps you should go and analyse his previous posts?

No?
Hm....

Did I say that he was in the right? No? Oh look at that, someone seems to be cherry-picking information.

[Mcgral18]

Athom83, on 10 April 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

Did I say that he was in the right? No? Oh look at that, someone seems to be cherry-picking information.

You most certainly are
Good on your for admitting it

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 April 2017 - 06:50 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Just a simple question:

From a business standpoint, would you:

A) release a $ hero variant which is by all means ******** then their free2play counterpart.

or

release a $ hero variant which is just slightly better then their free2play counterpart.

Bonuspoints if you take into consideration that you probably need money at the end of the month.

[Mcgral18]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 10 April 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

Just a simple question:

From a business standpoint, would you:

A) release a $ hero variant which is by all means ******** then their free2play counterpart.

or

release a $ hero variant which is just slightly better then their free2play counterpart.

Bonuspoints if you take into consideration that you probably need money at the end of the month.

Ah, but counterpoint:

I will never again spend any money if they support Power Creep and Legacy Tech™

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 10 April 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

Just a simple question:

From a business standpoint, would you:

A) release a $ hero variant which is by all means ******** then their free2play counterpart.

or

release a $ hero variant which is just slightly better then their free2play counterpart.

Bonuspoints if you take into consideration that you probably need money at the end of the month.

This is the part of the whole discussion I can't get my head around. I.e..."why would PGI be motivated to change what they have been doing with heros at this point in time?"....just from a business standpoint.

While (as a player), I would love it if they made hero omnipods available for C-bills or a few hundred MC....it would save me some $ and eliminate P2W concerns...I can't see any way PGI would benefit from it. It might not cost them a high % of sales to do this, but it would certainly cost them some % to do it either of these ways. Also, for every person that might shut their wallet out of protest, there are probably as many or more that would cancel or reduce their number of orders if they could get the hero omnipods another way.. I plan to buy the Mist Lynx and Ferret hero for $, but would cancel if I could just buy the omnipods for MC. Not out of protest...just out of the desire to save some $. Just being real here...

I suppose PGI could go the MC route for the Omni's and just stop giving away MC in events. That way more people would just have to buy MC for $. I suspect however that might make players just as (or more) unhappy as they are about the current Hero mech system.

So, in principle I am for the change....just need to understand (from those advocating for change) how PGI makes up the lost revenue.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 10 April 2017 - 07:50 AM.