41 replies to this topic

[Cichol Balor]

Why would you ever use an is lbx? For the most part critical chance is meaningless with these as once armor is gone in most situations you can just destroy the component with the pinpoint of a standard ac in just a few shots.

Clan I understand since the lbx only fire once per click and the ac2 have a lower dps than lbx2s but why us IS LBX?

[Tier5ForLife]

I love them, they are like a giant shotgun. For instance, they are better to use against fast moving lights.

And I would not discount the Crits. I will sometimes pair an LBX 5 with a UAC 5. I'm maybe the only person who likes the plain old AC 5. I never have to even think of it jamming.

[Alexander of Macedon]

It has an elevated critical hit chance and crits per-pellet. IIRC each pellet has ~66% chance to deal some level of critical damage (ranging from a single crit to a triple crit). Each crit does double damage.

So let's average things out in an unrealistic way and assume that all ten pellets do a single crit-no non-crits, but also no double or triple crits. That means that your LB10-X, which occupies less space and generates less heat than the AC10, also does roughly double damage to open components. The typical mixed splat build, LB X and SRMs, does tend to spread damage. But it also tends to frontload damage well enough to crack 'mechs open quickly, and anyone that is already cored is pretty much guaranteed to lose that component and everything in it.

In a certain sense the spread is also advantageous if you're trying to shred a damaged component or nail a light--there's no guarantee that the AC shell will land exactly where you want it, but with an LB10-X you're probably going to get at least some of the pellets on target.

And hey, they're space-shotguns that do a ton of cockpit shake. Lots of fun to use.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 10 April 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

the IS LB10X AC is lighter, takes less slots and is much longer range compaired to the AC10, as well as the crit chance, and being much more likely to hit a light vs an AC10 (due to the spread)

[Koniving]

The crits have a bit more meaning than you might think. Yes they damage internal components... but 15% of that damage also goes toward structure.
So a single LBX 10 could deliver up to 14.5 damage (maximum; also fairly unlikely) to the structure if you nail all 10 pellets into place. (Also true of an AC/10, but extremely unlikely). Typically an AC/10 will do ten to 11.5 damage to structure with a very slim chance of more. An LB-10X can do anywhere from 10 to 14.5 and typically averages out to about 12.7.

This said.. the simplistic interpretation of the LBX as a shotgun...kinda ruined the weapon for MWO and many past MW games.

As it currently is, the main reason to use it is to help in hitting enemies that are too fast and difficult to nail with traditional ACs.

Rogue Jedi, on 10 April 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

the IS LB10X AC is lighter, takes less slots and is much longer range compaired to the AC10, as well as the crit chance, and being much more likely to hit a light vs an AC10 (due to the spread)

Less heat, too.

Edited by Koniving, 10 April 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[BigScwerl]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 10 April 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

I love them, they are like a giant shotgun. For instance, they are better to use against fast moving lights.

And I would not discount the Crits. I will sometimes pair an LBX 5 with a UAC 5. I'm maybe the only person who likes the plain old AC 5. I never have to even think of it jamming.

He is talking about Inner Sphere LBX, clann LBX are great, but IS only gets a LBX 10.

[MechaBattler]

I think they should up the pellet count on the LBX. So that when you get in real close, you actually get more damage than standard AC.

[Vanguard319]

Like Rogue Jedi said, it's 1 ton lighter, meaning one additional ton you can dedicate to either ammo or some other component.

[Vlad Striker]

Try CN9-D.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 10 April 2017 - 11:04 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Also what Vlad said. Some IS 'mechs get quirks which make the IS LBX absolutely nutso.

[Tier5ForLife]

One thing about LBX's is that even though it says they have longer range when they reach long distance they tend to spread out too much. I've been hit at long range with them and for a second I thought that I was hit with SRMs from somewhere. When we get MRMs and the Rockets, I think it will be more like that.

But I think they are awesome for brawling. And this is one reason I like the Clan LBX 5 and as I've said, I often mix with with UAC 5's. And the IS is getting these weapons. I love hitting an enemy mech and watching what I guess is ammo exploding. I know he is toast so I just move to another target.

I "believe" and I hope someone that clear this up, I think that for it to really work well and for Crits to really happen well, it is better if the target already has damage. Sort of like with MGs.

And when the new Civil War weapons come....Oh, my....It boggles the mind of the possibles. I had thought that the Clan was getting more new weapons but after watching my friend OldBob10025's video, I can see that I was wrong and I semi-managed not to embarrass myself again. (Thanks OldBob10025!)

(where was the thread made by the player that was mad about him being in a Direwolf playing Conquest and him being left by himself moved to? I wanted to link BlackhawkSC's interesting video called: 5 Obsolete Mechs of MechWarrior Online. One thing I that is cool to learn is the history of this game. I see now what a lot of the "older" and more experienced players here have been talking about. Wow, this game has changed a lot)

If anyone has missed or needs a refresh on these weapons, I'm linking his video. I can tell everyone this. When the Civil War weapons hit, I'm going back to my main account with all my disliked IS Mechs. I still have to Master a lot of them and I've saving C-Bills for the new weapons.




I will ask the question of the players here that know a lot more than I do. Looking at the new weapons, it seems to me that IS mechs are going to rule or as I've learned the term here, be OP.

If nothing else, trying out the new weapons is going to be the thing for a while. For at least 2-3 weeks, I expect to see a much greater percentage of IS Mechs in Quick Play.

And a lot of people will be spending more time in their Mechlabs doing what I call "playing dress up". Which is a silly way of saying that we will be working with the new weapons seeing what can fit where etc. Last night I was in a game where the someone on the other team was running a PPC Locust. The addition of the Light PPC and the Snub Nose one will have me and other running some crazy new builds on our IS Mechs and really, my hated IS lights are going to get played again.

For the heck of it, I'm going to show my brawler Shadowcat..lol. It needs MORE FLAMERS. And I have to admit that it irks me a little that since B33F(who I like) put out a video about his flame Nova that a lot of people are running it and dang it, I have been using my version of it for a long time! I have an obsession with Flamers, lol. I have a Flame everything (I need an intervention)

I say that this build is only good for one kill but I have gotten 4 kills a couple of times. The key is something that is hard for me and that is to wait until everyone has damage and hopefully the enemy has spread out. If they are in a tight death ball, this build does not work at all, lol.





And here is MY Version of my FlameNova!

Edited by LikeUntoBuddha, 11 April 2017 - 06:53 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Cichol Balor, on 10 April 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

Why would you ever use an is lbx?

The real question is, why would you NOT want to use a tanksized, 11 ton heavy shotgun which throws 50kg worth of hot, melting projectiles every 2,5 seconds??? That is mechporn at its finest!

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 11 April 2017 - 07:06 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 11 April 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

I can tell everyone this. When the Civil War weapons hit, I'm going back to my main account with all my disliked IS Mechs. I still have to Master a lot of them and I've saving C-Bills for the new weapons.

I will ask the question of the players here that know a lot more than I do. Looking at the new weapons, it seems to me that IS mechs are going to rule or as I've learned the term here, be OP.

If nothing else, trying out the new weapons is going to be the thing for a while. For at least 2-3 weeks, I expect to see a much greater percentage of IS Mechs in Quick Play.

And a lot of people will be spending more time in their Mechlabs doing what I call "playing dress up". Which is a silly way of saying that we will be working with the new weapons seeing what can fit where etc. Last night I was in a game where the someone on the other team was running a PPC Locust. The addition of the Light PPC and the Snub Nose one will have me and other running some crazy new builds on our IS Mechs and really, my hated IS lights are going to get played again.

in my opinion the biggest game changer for IS will not be the new weapons it will be the Light Fusion Engine,
While it does not offer as much of a weight saving as an XL the fact that like a Clan XL it can suvive with just the one side means the Standard engine will be effectivly obsolite when that arrives, Lights will probably stick with XL engines but Mechs like the Hunchback, Griffin, Thunderbolt, Marauder, Stalker King Crab and Atlas where at current Standard engines make a lot of sense they will cease to do so, so those Mechs gain 5-12 tons without seriously sacrificing suvivability, and a lot of Mechs which at current almost have to use XLs to get sufficent tonage for a decent loadout will likely also switch for more suvivability, unfortunatly refitting the 20 or so IS Mechs I play with something resembeling regularity will be quite expensive.

Light Fero will also be rather useful, but as for the weapons I am most interested in the Light PPC, Snub Nose PPC, Light Gauss, IS LBX 2, 5, 20, and the LAMS

[Tier5ForLife]

Rogue Jedi, on 11 April 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

in my opinion the biggest game changer for IS will not be the new weapons it will be the Light Fusion Engine,
While it does not offer as much of a weight saving as an XL the fact that like a Clan XL it can suvive with just the one side means the Standard engine will be effectivly obsolite when that arrives, Lights will probably stick with XL engines but Mechs like the Hunchback, Griffin, Thunderbolt, Marauder, Stalker King Crab and Atlas where at current Standard engines make a lot of sense they will cease to do so, so those Mechs gain 5-12 tons without seriously sacrificing suvivability, and a lot of Mechs which at current almost have to use XLs to get sufficent tonage for a decent loadout will likely also switch for more suvivability, unfortunatly refitting the 20 or so IS Mechs I play with something resembeling regularity will be quite expensive.

Light Fero will also be rather useful, but as for the weapons I am most interested in the Light PPC, Snub Nose PPC, Light Gauss, IS LBX 2, 5, 20, and the LAMS

Great point. I had weapons on the brain and forgot about it. Which reminds me, I need to earn even more C-Bills, lol

[Jamico]

Does the LBX cause "cockpit shake", as I think it is called?

[Alexander of Macedon]

Rogue Jedi, on 11 April 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

in my opinion the biggest game changer for IS will not be the new weapons it will be the Light Fusion Engine,
While it does not offer as much of a weight saving as an XL the fact that like a Clan XL it can suvive with just the one side means the Standard engine will be effectivly obsolite when that arrives.

Well, not entirely. I certainly intend to keep running standards on my Stalkers, half the point of using them is that the enemy has to burn through two or three 'mechs worth of armor to kill you. The side torsos pop eventually, but once they have you can live for a good while longer, and if you took a LPLas as your zombie tool you can do a decent chunk of damage before you go down.

Same deal with stuff like the loyalty CTF, I don't want to drop the AC/20 when I can already run it with everything I need on a standard. Would definitely be a nice change for my Ilya though.

Jamico, on 11 April 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

Does the LBX cause "cockpit shake", as I think it is called?

Yes. Substantially more than most other weapons, though unless you're doing something like the good ol' direwhale LB 2X spam you won't fire quickly enough to keep peoples' aim messed up consistently.

[Cichol Balor]

Alexander of Macedon, on 11 April 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Yes. Substantially more than most other weapons, though unless you're doing something like the good ol' direwhale LB 2X spam you won't fire quickly enough to keep peoples' aim messed up consistently.

You don't need to be quit that extreme I regularly pull that off with 4lbx2s on my huntsman and Timberwolve and tbh you can probably for fast enough with 3.

[PhoenixFire55]

Rogue Jedi, on 10 April 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

the IS LB10X AC is lighter, takes less slots and is much longer range compaired to the AC10, as well as the crit chance, and being much more likely to hit a light vs an AC10 (due to the spread)

^^ This.

[Satan n stuff]

Vanguard319, on 10 April 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Like Rogue Jedi said, it's 1 ton lighter, meaning one additional ton you can dedicate to either ammo or some other component.

You also plain can't fit multiple AC10s on some mechs that can fit multiple LB10s because the LB10 takes up only 6 slots.

[IraqiWalker]

I love the LB-10X, however, as much as I love it. It is absolutely terrible with crits.

People keep bringing up the "increased crit chance", without any consideration to what actually happens with crits:

Here's why every single shot weapon will always be better at crits than the LBX:

When a shot lands at an exposed location it rolls for its crit chance, and which component it will crit.

With an LBX you have a decent chance of dealing 2-3 damage to a few internal components (provided you landed multiple pellets at the same location), this also includes internal structure components that actually nullify any crit damage they receive.

When I shoot an AC 10 shot at an exposed location, it may have a lower chance to crit, but it still deals 10 damage to the location, and when it does crit it will do far superior damage than the LB10-X.

Let's do some math shall we?

Spoiler

(all calculations will be done against a stock Zeus-9S Right Torso that was just exposed of armor, and received no internal damage yet, all shots are done at optimal range)



You fire an LBX at the enemy ST. That's 10 pellets, let's say of those 8 hit the location (a near impossibility except at point blank range), of those 8, 5 will crit. 4 will deal double damage, and one will deal triple damage.

That is 8 + 3 + 3 = 14 damage (I am being VERY generous here).
Here's what will happen:
you'll have at least 1 crit go into empty space (I'm being generous here), and deal its damage to the internal structure, and not to any component.

The rest will randomly hit some of the other internal components resulting in you destroying none of them.

End result after one shot:
1 crit dealt extra 1-2 points of damage to internal structure
4 other crits dealt minimal damage to internal components
3 pellets did not crit and just damaged internal structure

Current ST HP = 20-26 (out of 34)
Internal components are all at 6-10 (out of 10 HP)

You will need 4-6 shots to destroy that ST.

Let's compare to an AC 10, or PPC

One shot, deals all 10 damage to a location, if it doesn't crit, the section is at 24 HP

if it does crit, and hits an internal component it will outright destroy it (internal components have an HP 10 or less for the most part), and drop the internal structure even further below.

After one shot:
Internal HP is at 24 (if no crit, if double crit hp is at 14, if triple crit hp is -6)
Internal components: 1 instantly destroyed if crit, none destroyed if not crit.

You will need 2-3 shots to destroy that ST.

In terms of removing an exposed section, and in terms of destroying internals, the single shot weapons outstrip the LBX. This is true across all range brackets, and even more so at longer ranges.

The downfall of the LBX comes from the fact that each pellet rolls its own crit damage, and location. It doesn't matter if they have higher crit chance, when your shot will virtually never land 10 internal damage onto one component. Making the single shot weapons far superior at crits, crit damage, and location/component removal.

So the weapon that is supposed to be superior at crit damage ends up being subpar at critting on its best day, and downright terrible on average, compared to ones not designed for crits.

I like the LBX for dealing with lights, because it can guarantee some damage against them, and they have a low enough HP pool that the crits are actually meaningful, even on small pellets.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 16 April 2017 - 12:13 PM.