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Atm And Stuff


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#1 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:25 AM

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ATM 3 / 6 / 9 / 12

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Advanced Tactical Missile. A missile whose damage will vary based on the distance it travelled. Higher damage up close, lower damage at long range.




Advanced Tactical Missile, in it's iteration with the original BT, is that it's a weapon able to make use of 3 different ammunition; Extended Range [ER], Standard, and High Explosive [HE].

As per the name suggests, ER has the farthest range of the ammnunition but it deals less damage. HE deals the most damage, but it's the shortest of range. And then Standard is basically the middle ground.

Each HE missile deals 3 damage over 3/6/9 range without minimum range ER deals 1 over 9/18/27, while Standard deals 2 over 5/10/15, both at a minimum range of 4. The ER and Standard ammunition is defined as multi-staged.

As with PGI's planned feature, all three function is instead combined into a single ammunition type, that deals damage based on the travelled distance. It's practically like PPCs and AC shots as it seems, as their damage is weakened over range above their effective range. I'm actually rather okay with that simplification.

How i envisioned it, based on the info PGI has said, is that it's like a burst-fire weapon, like that of the LRM and Clan ACs -- basically burst-fire autocannons but shoots missiles instead of shells. And being multi-staged, I presume that it might have a dynamically changing projectile speed. There is no indication that they are homing, so i assume that they are dumbfired.

SRMs are easy to land a hit despite of it's 400 projectile speed, because it's range is at 270 meters, and is usually even used closer. LRMs are hard to land, because their speed is only 160, and is used over greater distances and requires maintained lock that can be easily broken. SSRM works because it's fire-and-forget, no retained lock needed. Even at 360m it works.

But where does ATM fall here? Would they function as an even more hard-hitting AC? Would the missiles be even slower than AC shells? if that's the case then it's even harder to land over great distances, that i fail to see why would people even bother using it long range. What range would it be? Maybe 200m for 3 high damage? 450m for 2 damage, and then 1 damage beyond?

It's saving grace is that burst-fire maybe, but considering the meta, why would anyone use it for brawling range than SRMs that you can shoot once and done, than a longer face time due to the burst fire?

With it's "multi-staged missiles", how would it work? Would it start slow and pick up speed? or would it start fast, and loose speed? Would it fire at a shotgun-all-at-once missiles and then each missiles then sequentially?

I searched for ATMs in previous MW iteration, and i found this in MW LL which is actually pretty awesome BTW:



Maybe ATMs would be glorified Streak SRMs? But would burst-fire instead? But honestly, wouldn't it be game-breaking that it's basically an LRM that doesn't need retained lock? -- although it doesn't go over obstacles.

Right now, I don't see how ATM could fit within the game. Any thoughts?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 April 2017 - 02:38 AM.


#2 El Bandito

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:30 AM

I envision the damage fall off mechanic would be reverse of CLRM. And it will most likely stream-fire just like CLRM, and lock on mechanic just like it as well. More flexibility over CLRM but less ammo in return.

Streak mechanic was used on Improved ATM by lore, which is developed in 3070, not regular ATM.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 April 2017 - 02:42 AM.


#3 Shifty McSwift

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:33 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 12 April 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

Maybe ATMs would be glorified Streak SRMs?


That's pretty much what I had expected, somewhere between SSRM and LRM, but being able to dumbfire them would be interesting.

That is how I figured the rocket launcher would function though, dumbfire long range missiles, functioning more like ballistics in practice.

#4 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:37 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 12 April 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I envision the damage fall off mechanic would be reverse of CLRMs. And it will most likely stream-fire just like CLRMs.


Sure i guess. But how would they fall inside the game? Would it be like a cross-breed SSRMs and Clan burst-fired ACs?

Why would i pick LRM or SRM over ATM considering the current hypothesized iteration?

#5 Shifty McSwift

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:41 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 12 April 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:


Sure i guess. But how would they fall inside the game? Would it be like a cross-breed SSRMs and Clan burst-fired ACs?

Why would i pick LRM or SRM over ATM considering the current hypothesized iteration?


Well one would assume the SRM and LRM variants would be most efficient for their exact specific tasks, over the jack of all trades nature of ATM, though they if they deal more damage than SRMs, we have a serious issue.

#6 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:43 AM

View PostShifty McSwift, on 12 April 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:


Well one would assume the SRM and LRM variants would be most efficient for their exact specific tasks, over the jack of all trades nature of ATM, though they if they deal more damage than SRMs, we have a serious issue.

Sarna info says that HE missiles which is the close-range missile variant deals 3 damage, so 3 > 2.15. Of course it might change in the game.

Maybe ATM would compensate by having an even longer cooldown, resulting in inferior DPS, like Streaks over SRMs? Like ATM is Streak version of MRM that is IS.

http://wiki.mechlivi...ctical_Missiles
http://wiki.mechlivi..._Range_Missiles
http://wiki.mechlivi..._Range_Missiles
http://wiki.mechlivi..._Range_Missiles

Reading over MWLL, it was mentioned that ATMs fly faster -- or rather LRMs are slower. Maybe ATMs would fly really slow within 270m, but flies immensely faster beyond that? Still, if ATM flies immensely faster even that of SRMs, that would solve the long range hitting issue, unless if it's locked like that of SSRMs in MWO.

Also LRMs undergo ballistic trajectory, which aids in indirect fire support. But considering the current ettiquette of LRM boating -- where one is encouraged to get one's own lock, wouldn't it be obsoleted by uncoordinated potatoes in solo queue? Not that we should balance the game around solo queue, but now it falls under an incredibly niche role.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 April 2017 - 02:49 AM.


#7 El Bandito

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:44 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 12 April 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

Why would i pick LRM or SRM over ATM considering the current hypothesized iteration?


If your mech has limited amount of missile slots, you can just pack ATMs, instead of mixing different launchers.
The nature of ATM means no matter the map, it will always be useful. Unlike SRMs on Alpine, or LRMs on Crimson.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 April 2017 - 02:47 AM.


#8 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:54 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 12 April 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:


If your mech has limited amount of missile slots, you can just pack ATMs, instead of mixing different launchers.
The nature of ATM means no matter the map, it will always be useful. Unlike SRMs on Alpine, or LRMs on Crimson.


I see, So it would be a generalist weapon? I love hybridizing.

But then considering the self-sustaining ettiquette for LRMs, wouldn't they be obsolete if there's a weapon that does LRMing better? Unless of course indirect fire support, but in my stay in MWO, i heard that to be completely potato playstyle on general circumstances -- unless something like reliable locks over polar highlands.

Would the ATM obsolete the LRM? or rather ATM would encourage LRM to be only useful for indirect support? After all ATM does direct-fire support better.

#9 Shifty McSwift

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:00 AM

Not if they do less damage than LRMs at that max range, which could go up past 750 etc.

Could also make ATMs travel slower than LRMs too.

#10 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:03 AM

View PostShifty McSwift, on 12 April 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

Not if they do less damage than LRMs at that max range, which could go up past 750 etc.

Could also make ATMs travel slower than LRMs too.


If ATMs travel slower than LRMs, then that would be a problem, since it's kind of long range, it would be problematic to land a shot. LRMs already has it hard, and it's homing.

On another note. Watching MW LL online, it looks far more badass than MWO. I mean look at this god damn melee between an Uziel and a Cougar. Each hit seems to be far more satisfying than that of MWO.


Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 April 2017 - 03:06 AM.


#11 Alan Davion

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:05 AM

View PostShifty McSwift, on 12 April 2017 - 02:33 AM, said:

That is how I figured the rocket launcher would function though, dumbfire long range missiles, functioning more like ballistics in practice.


Except the problem with rocket launchers being introduced here, with their TT range brackets of 1-5 short, 6-11 medium and 12-18 long, and with their "one and done" functionality, they would be next to impossible to use at long range unless they had absolutely BLISTERING velocity, like I'm talking Gauss level velocity, they'd be completely useless at anything but point blank brawling range.

#12 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:10 AM

View PostAlan Davion, on 12 April 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:


Except the problem with rocket launchers being introduced here, with their TT range brackets of 1-5 short, 6-11 medium and 12-18 long, and with their "one and done" functionality, they would be next to impossible to use at long range unless they had absolutely BLISTERING velocity, like I'm talking Gauss level velocity, they'd be completely useless at anything but point blank brawling range.


They could probably capitalize on splash damage if it would be slow.

#13 Shifty McSwift

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:10 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 12 April 2017 - 03:03 AM, said:




Well it seems JJs are pretty damn strong there.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 12 April 2017 - 03:15 AM.


#14 Shifty McSwift

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:19 AM

View PostAlan Davion, on 12 April 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:


Except the problem with rocket launchers being introduced here, with their TT range brackets of 1-5 short, 6-11 medium and 12-18 long, and with their "one and done" functionality, they would be next to impossible to use at long range unless they had absolutely BLISTERING velocity, like I'm talking Gauss level velocity, they'd be completely useless at anything but point blank brawling range.


Well rockets are pretty fast in reality, but in game terms they could pick up speed as they travel if such a thing were programmable, or have great velocity and a delay in firing, who knows. Hopefully the distinction will be something decent, while allowing for good combined fire synergies.

They also won't have the bullet drop trajectory of ballistics either come to think of it, just straight line then poof too, so it's likely there won't ever be "perfect" synergy, but close enough still works in practice, with practice.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 12 April 2017 - 03:21 AM.


#15 El Bandito

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:39 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 12 April 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

I see, So it would be a generalist weapon? I love hybridizing.

But then considering the self-sustaining ettiquette for LRMs, wouldn't they be obsolete if there's a weapon that does LRMing better? Unless of course indirect fire support, but in my stay in MWO, i heard that to be completely potato playstyle on general circumstances -- unless something like reliable locks over polar highlands.

Would the ATM obsolete the LRM? or rather ATM would encourage LRM to be only useful for indirect support? After all ATM does direct-fire support better.


ATM in lore has less ammo than CLRM. ATM is also heavier. So you must pay in tonnage.

#16 Jingseng

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:53 AM

atm solve everything!

But seriously, you already know how PGI does "different ammo type/swapping". I am certain no one wants to go there again.

#17 Hit the Deck

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:06 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 12 April 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:

...
The nature of ATM means no matter the map, it will always be useful. Unlike SRMs on Alpine, or LRMs on Crimson.

ATMs are short to medium range weapon due to the nature of their damage fall-off and ammo.

#18 El Bandito

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:23 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 12 April 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

ATMs are short to medium range weapon due to the nature of their damage fall-off and ammo.


As I said, always useful.

#19 Hit the Deck

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:40 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 12 April 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

As I said, always useful.

Well, your post seems to imply that ATMs are also useful at long range where LRMs are much more efficient.

This is actually the exact problem that I tried to deal with (how to make ATMs useful at long range) when making this earlier thread: https://mwomercs.com...tm-great-thread

#20 El Bandito

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:44 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 12 April 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well, your post seems to imply that ATMs are also useful at long range where LRMs are much more efficient.

This is actually the exact problem that I tried to deal with (how to make ATMs useful at long range) when making this earlier thread: https://mwomercs.com...tm-great-thread


That's because ATMs are useful at long range. Sure, CLRMs are more efficient and will deal more damage, but that doesn't mean a person with ATM shouldn't fire those missiles when someone has a lock.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 April 2017 - 04:44 AM.






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