15 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

You know, in Lore, the Clans were supposed to be fielding superior Mechwarriors due to their eugenics and training programs.

Not once have I ever...EVER...read anything along the lines of "Star Captain Ezekiel Snuka stopped his Kodiak dead in it's tracks and dialed up the magnification in his HUD to it's maximum. Bracing the 100 ton death machine, he let loose with a volley of 80 long range missiles at close to it's maximum range, only to see them all pile into the side of a mountain." I can't think of a single instance where they've described some of the antics of the "Knight Errants" or "Survivors" I've seen in FW. (Hell, what rank is that, anyway? I'm pretty familiar with most of the Clan hierarchy, but admit I'm not up on naval ranks).

So, here's the absurd thought...I'm wondering why we can't use that ridiculous Tier level thing to differentiate between a "Sibko trainee" and a frontline Mechwarrior. I'm sure that the IS has something similar, "Cadet" being the most obvious.

If nothing else, one would think that PGI could set a simple matchmaker to determine a specific percentage of "Cadet/Sibko" vs "Mechwarrior." Doesn't have to get any more complicated than that.

[justcallme A S H]

Cause Tier means nothing? So many that are T1, should not be there. Similarly for the others. Loads of T2 players about that should be T4.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

Just wait till you see the elo for the 8v8. If theyre still based off the same system you either get the same potatos you got now in high tiers or a very lonely few with huge wait times at the top if they truly change it.

[Willard Phule]

justcallme A S H, on 12 April 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

Cause Tier means nothing? So many that are T1, should not be there. Similarly for the others. Loads of T2 players about that should be T4.

Look, you and I both know that the whole Tier thing is basically based on games played. No more, no less.

Thing is, although it may seem minimal, there are differences between T1 and T5..at least, in general. The T1 knows how to move forward, has a reasonable idea of what each weapon system does, has shut down a few times....you get my drift. Hell, odds are good a T1 might own a mech or two.

Not truly significant differences, but noticeable when your team consists of more than 6 guys in trial LRM mechs.

[naterist]

Ya, this makes sense. Matchmaker is clearly needed, yet, theres difficulties...

With comp its easier, cause they can just increase the time between comp match kickoffs and the pool for mm increases almost by default (more time=more teams in que) with a mm in faction play, theyll need to wait till a fw update draws back enough new and old players to fw, the way 4.1 did originally, then itd need to be a good enough matchmaker to keep everyone coming back.

But if we get some group of idiots throwing a hissy fit like evil did for 4.1, then newbs are all gonna ditch and boom back to square one. In many ways, the people who play fw are more of a problem.

I forget who said it, but i remember a guy on here said once "its pgis responsibility to fix fw, but its the players' fault its all f***ed up."

[Weepy Wanebow]

However, as long as someone has even a semi-decent skill level and a bit of luck they can still boost their KDR. That is regardless of potato playing on occasions or randomly in spots during a match. You could literally be the real life MWO version of Kai Allard-Liao and still potato from time to time and come out on top.

[Willard Phule]

Wendigo Waltz, on 12 April 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

However, as long as someone has even a semi-decent skill level and a bit of luck they can still boost their KDR. That is regardless of potato playing on occasions or randomly in spots during a match. You could literally be the real life MWO version of Kai Allard-Liao and still potato from time to time and come out on top.

Has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I have no idea how PGI comes up with their Tier levels, other than whatever means they're using puts you to T1 fairly quickly.

My whole point is that instead of ending up in a PUG match with 10 new guys in trial mechs, perhaps they could simply limit it to a percentage and bump them to the bottom on the priority list for putting matches together. You know, instead of the "first come, first stomped" thing they've got going.

[Appogee]

I recently leveled up an alt account from Tier 4 to Tier 2.

I was surprised to find that Tier 4 PUG matches are almost as bad as Tier 1. Instead of having a grand old time mopping up skittles as I had expected, I found I was losing just as many matches, in just as frustrating a manner, as I was in Tier 1.

It all comes down to the distribution of the skittles...

In Tier 4 I was usually getting 700+ damage and 3 or more kills. But only rarely could I carry the huge number of (I'm sorry to be impolite) massively inept players on my side. And then, every few matches, I'd see a bunch of familiar high performance Tier 1 players - all on the opposite side - stomping me and the skittles on my side in under 3 minutes.

I concluded there is effectively no matchmaker. (At least, not at the times I'm playing.) Also, that the matchmaker - if it even exists - is making zero effort to equally distribute good players and skittles across teams.

Edited by Appogee, 13 April 2017 - 06:22 AM.

[The Jerol]

Appogee, on 13 April 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

I recently leveled up an alt account from Tier 4 to Tier 2.

I was surprised to find that Tier 4 PUG matches are almost as bad as Tier 1. Instead of having a grand old time mopping up skittles as I had expected, I found I was losing just as many matches, in just as frustrating a manner, as I was in Tier 1.

It all comes down to the distribution of the skittles...

In Tier 4 I was usually getting 700+ damage and 3 or more kills. But only rarely could I carry the huge number of (I'm sorry to be impolite) massively inept players on my side. And then, every few matches, I'd see a bunch of familiar high performance Tier 1 players - all on the opposite side - stomping me and the skittles on my side in under 3 minutes.

I concluded there is effectively no matchmaker. (At least, not at the times I'm playing.) Also, that the matchmaker - if it even exists - is making zero effort to equally distribute good players and skittles across teams.

I have found this to be very true.

I have less than 550 games played. I started in Tier 5 and have risen steadily to where I am now close to Tier 2. I have never noticed any change in the quality of game play as I have risen in Tier. In point of fact, I routinely got into matches with Tier 1 players when I was Tier 4 & 5. It became apparent very quickly to me that Tier had nothing to do with actual skill and only reflected games played as you always get a PSR increase for a win and often get a "no change" or even a PSR increase if you lose (and play reasonably well). Truthfully, I believe Avg Match Score would be a far better metric for stratifying player skill. But of course, that is coming from an inexperienced player who doesn't play lights.

I have yet to try FP. I have heeded the advice here and am pushing to have a stable of Mastered mechs before I dive into it. Truthfully, I wouldn't even know how to begin FP. I see from following the forums that PUG drops for FP are an exercise in frustration. I take it I need at least four copies of certain critical modules for an effective drop deck (i.e. Radar Deprivation), so that's yet another barrier. It's a bit intimidating, because I'd like to join a unit, but have no idea which one would suit me -- though I'm leaning Merc. Also, I don't feel like I'd contribute much because I have zero experience in FP (it's not well explained in the current game tutorials). Circular logic FTW.

I still enjoy QP quite a bit, though I do get runs where my team just won't communicate -- or worse, are abusive after they go full potato (my favorite -- game advice from the surly dead LRM Spirit Bear player who wouldn't say one word when he was still alive).

It seems that if they have so few players playing FP that they have to mix pre-mades with PUGs, then that may be an unsolvable issue barring some dramatic increase in player population.


TJ

[Kubernetes]

I dunno about that; when I started an alt the tier 4/5 games looked nothing like tier 1 games. You think people don't group up in tier 1? T4/5 is way worse. They can't aim or torso twist, and are rarely aware when they're getting backshot. A good T1 in a Locust or Cheetah is nearly unkillable in a T4/5 match.

[Electroflameageddon]

I thought the whole idea of the tier system was to put players with similar skills into groups so that romps don't happen.

From what I've seen, it isn't working.

I've had many solo matches where the other team is part of a well known group of high tier players and my team is random people mostly in trial mechs.

3 minutes later, game over.

According to what we've been told, that shouldn't happen.

I've also dropped with high level players and been on the giving side of the 3 minute romp.

I think that their code is a little wonky.

[The Basilisk]

How did this thread derail so fast from a "what could be done to easylie use the tiersystem to get a basic chance for not getting only stomps or be stomped in FW" to a whinethred about the simple fact that the matchmaker does not do what ppl think and never will do.

I realy do not know how ppl could, can and insist of going on to ignore the simple fact that even the idea of what is fun differs so much that no tier or player system in the world will sort out the problem to get a well balanced, intresting match within PuGroups.

As long as there is a mechlab and no kind of battlevalue system to evaluate the mech builds the ppl take into battle there never can be constantly balanced matches.

Next thing is the random nature of maps you get. Sometimes you simply will get a set of well suited builds for that map on the one side and an other set of good but ill suited builds for this map on the other side.

And an other thing are more subtle synergy effects like all ecm on one and no ecm on the other side.
Polar highlands and one side got two NARC ravens who know their job and an a medium LRM lance while the other team has a mixed bunch of all kinds.

As long as there is no REAL premade Scenario Lobby system where you can plan and talk tactics and stuff the ammount of RNG in the wrong places in this game makes balance a totaly and utter illusion.

Edited by The Basilisk, 15 April 2017 - 08:49 AM.

[naterist]

i have an idea. get the people who habitually call in fw, then ASK THEM what the most useful scoregiving actions they want to see from their teams. give those actions highest amount of match score and more cbills and xp. then make your "teir" ranking be your average for the last 15-20 games only. throw in a cutoff for matches considered.

[Bloodwitch]

justcallme A S H, on 12 April 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

Cause Tier means nothing? So many that are T1, should not be there. Similarly for the others. Loads of T2 players about that should be T4.

Pretty much this.
I'm on an alt because i thought i'd drop hard, being as drunk as i am now. I am actually rising my PSR suprisingly. Will try more LBX and Flamer but i doubt even a bottle of gin can't beat PSR.

[Willard Phule]

The Basilisk, on 15 April 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

As long as there is a mechlab and no kind of battlevalue system to evaluate the mech builds the ppl take into battle there never can be constantly balanced matches.

Funny thing. It doesn't even have to go as far as a full blown BV system. Just simply taking each mech's minimum, maximum and "effective" range into consideration and using that to build a team with would get the job done. Tier doesn't even have to come into play. Just keep the light/medium, medium/heavy and heavy/assault divisions like you've already got.

Set it for X% short range, Y% mid range, Z% long range and let it go.

[Palfatreos]

Kubernetes, on 14 April 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

I dunno about that; when I started an alt the tier 4/5 games looked nothing like tier 1 games. You think people don't group up in tier 1? T4/5 is way worse. They can't aim or torso twist, and are rarely aware when they're getting backshot. A good T1 in a Locust or Cheetah is nearly unkillable in a T4/5 match.

how dare you run ecm cheetah in a lrm heavy tier