76 replies to this topic

[That Token Canadian Guy]

Your Match Maker is broken , so tired of getting cowardly teams . Would be nice to get a team that can fire back at the enemy . You have a tier system , maybe use it!!! Tier 3-5 should not be put into matches with tier 1-2. Not only is it unfair for the lower tiers , but it ruins any confidence upper tier individuals may have for other players! Maybe some tier 1-2 player may enjoy noob stomping , I find it exhausting knowing I am being hung out to dry due to lack of skill or courage from other team mates. Am i complaining? Hell yes I am!!! Do i care what the trolls think , hell no!!! Fix your game PGI and do not use the excuse that there is not enough players. It is simple stuff like this is why you are lacking players . Your tactic to embrace new with vets chase away new players and piss off the vets . It is bad enough you FORCE people to play maps/mode they do not want to play with a crap vote system . At least make the match worth while and put tiers together.

[Dee Eight]

The problem has nothing to do with the tiers. It has to do with the available total player pool. Even if they reset the tiers and re-formulated the math strictly along W/L & K/D ratios for sorting players... there simply are NOT enough players to form matches without mixing them.

Edited by Dee Eight, 15 April 2017 - 10:20 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Just Some Guy, on 15 April 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

Your Match Maker is broken , so tired of getting cowardly teams . Would be nice to get a team that can fire back at the enemy . You have a tier system , maybe use it!!! Tier 3-5 should not be put into matches with tier 1-2. Not only is it unfair for the lower tiers , but it ruins any confidence upper tier individuals may have for other players! Maybe some tier 1-2 player may enjoy noob stomping , I find it exhausting knowing I am being hung out to dry due to lack of skill or courage from other team mates. Am i complaining? Hell yes I am!!! Do i care what the trolls think , hell no!!! Fix your game PGI and do not use the excuse that there is not enough players. It is simple stuff like this is why you are lacking players . Your tactic to embrace new with vets chase away new players and piss off the vets . It is bad enough you FORCE people to play maps/mode they do not want to play with a crap vote system . At least make the match worth while and put tiers together.

Just so you know, it is not a match maker. It is an experience bar.

The population isn't big enough at many times during a 24hr period to not put T3 in with T1 for a start.

Plus plenty that are in T1/T2 etc, should not be there. Some T3 players are better than T1 players, they just haven't "levelled" the bar, ie grind, enough.

[Marius Romanis]

Dee Eight, on 15 April 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:

The problem has nothing to do with the tiers. It has to do with the available total player pool. Even if they reset the tiers and re-formulated the math strictly along W/L & K/D ratios for sorting players... there simply are NOT enough players to form matches without mixing them.

But if they actually programmed that **** more people would play knowing they were less likely to get **** skill matching than we get now and population might increase (needs to be launched in time with a big game change that brings people back to the game.... i dunno, something like new weapons being added?)

[El Bandito]

Just Some Guy, on 15 April 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

Fix your game PGI and do not use the excuse that there is not enough players.

But not enough players is perfectly valid reason. MWO needs at least 10x more players to have acceptable level of MM.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 April 2017 - 12:18 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

there simply are NOT enough players to form matches without mixing them.

I disagree. the problem is they have solos and groups seperated into two queues.

what they need to do is have only one queue for quickplay. and max group size should be 2-3.

if you wanna play in a large group thats what faction play is for. or the new 8v8 ranked ladder gamemode thats coming. quickplay should only be for solo players and small groups of 2-3.

Edited by Khobai, 16 April 2017 - 12:13 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

so any mathematicians here that deal with algorithms?

The MM can not always find X guy with X tier, with X specific stats to specifically match the MM. Just not probably, but its not impossible. We already know that they "relax" the MM, and given that the MM is matching hundreds of players if not thousands at any given time its more than likely you have an uneven match. the MM in a matter of milliseconds may change the structure if necessary, as long as that what was programmed to do. Only a few people might ever experience optimal match sets. Its not the MM, its just the logic in the Math.

If the MM actually built MMs the way we wanted them. For every guy with a W/L of 3.0 on one team the MM will try to find within the available pool somebody who matches that. Although like I said given that they "relax" it withing a extremely small window. I doubt that ever finding an even match is possible in this game.

it's not so much population as it is finding people within the population to match.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 April 2017 - 12:17 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The MM can not always find X guy with X tier

it doesnt need to. if you pick 24 random people and put 12 on each team the average skill level is probably pretty close anyway.

where matchmaker fails atrociously is in matching TONNAGE. Itll put like 4 kodiaks and 1 light on one team. And like 1 atlas and 4 lights on the other team.

I personally liked matchmaker better when it was 3/3/3/3 for both teams and max group size was 4. thats when quickplay felt the most balanced to me. although I think max group size should be 2-3 not 4.

the issue with that was the wait time though because no one wanted to play lights/mediums. but I think with the upcoming changes like engine decoupling playing lights/mediums will be more appealing

Edited by Khobai, 16 April 2017 - 12:22 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Khobai, on 16 April 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

it doesnt need to. if you pick 24 random people and put 12 on each team the average skill level is probably pretty close anyway.

where matchmaker fails atrociously is in matching TONNAGE. Itll put like 4 kodiaks and 1 light on one team. And like 1 atlas and 4 lights on the other team.

I personally liked matchmaker better when it was 3/3/3/3 for both teams.

yea, I get you, srry for simplicity sake I was leaving out important factors such as tonnage. Or even weight class. So we now have a MM that has to account for more than 5 variables I believe in a pool of players and match them in seconds or maybe milliseconds. Another problem is that there are an uneven number of weight classed mechs in the pool.

yea you are also right about the 4's, and like you said, the people in the middle are going to find mostly even matches. There will always be people on the ends though, who will then think something is wrong, and get teams full off over skilled and underskilled players.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 April 2017 - 12:26 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Well functioning skill based matchmaking with 12 per team requires 10000+ players at least, combining the queues wouldn't help much since the group queue is so small. They could be stricter on the tonnage but that would mean even worse skill matching. This is one of the few issues where it's hard to blame PGI.

[El Bandito]

Sjorpha, on 16 April 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

Well functioning skill based matchmaking with 12 per team requires 10000+ players at least, combining the queues wouldn't help much since the group queue is so small. They could be stricter on the tonnage but that would mean even worse skill matching. This is one of the few issues where it's hard to blame PGI.

Which is why I keep advocating 8v8 in QP. Aside from better MM and hit-reg that results from fewer players per team, a lot of people will be able to play MWO in the first place, without having dirt for fps. TTK will also increase, as a bonus.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 April 2017 - 01:07 AM.

[Sjorpha]

El Bandito, on 16 April 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

Which is why I keep advocating 8v8 in QP. Aside from better MM and hit-reg that results from fewer players per team, a lot of people will be able to play MWO in the first place, without having dirt for fps. TTK will also increase, as a bonus.

I think 8v8 is much better too for quickplay, faction play should be the only 12v12 mode imo.

I don't think 8v8 would enable good skill based mm though, the current averages in population are still far too low. Obviously it would be a little better than now.

[Shifty McSwift]

Just Some Guy, on 15 April 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

Your Match Maker is broken , so tired of getting cowardly teams.

The matchmaker can't help any of us there.

The solution to your issue seems to be; you aren't part of a gaming clan or functional unit/group.

I find it is safest to never go into a quickplay solo queue match expecting any kind of normality or standard, it's a madhouse jim. Get used to it.

You could reduce the numbers to 2v2 but theres a pretty good chance the guy you get paired with is going to have a slightly (to vastly) different idea of what to do, and that will impact your game play. It's just how team based multiplayer games work.

[KingCobra]

OP Sorry to tell you but MWO is just another FPS meat grinder game long gone are the days where players had a choice of who they played matches with and against in MechWarrior4 Mercenaries with lobby launcher systems where you had choices in league games with players that where close to your own skill levels.

[Moomtazz]

Tiers are most certainly an XP bar for all but the worst pilots, and enough time has passed that Tiers 1-3 have plenty of bad players in them. Additionally, NA solo QP matches are increasingly filled with more and more 200+ ping players who are not playing on their home servers for whatever reason.

[SmokedJag]

Since PSR is basically useless, what's MM supposed to do, if it had enough people to populate tier-balanced games in a reasonable period of time?

[Ukabix]

Khobai, on 16 April 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

I disagree. the problem is they have solos and groups seperated into two queues.

what they need to do is have only one queue for quickplay. and max group size should be 2-3.

if you wanna play in a large group thats what faction play is for. or the new 8v8 ranked ladder gamemode thats coming. quickplay should only be for solo players and small groups of 2-3.

For solo QP - I strongly disagree. Mixing solo and 2-3 player teams will only make the situation worse.
Dropping with 23 other players ,who I am not expecting to be better or worse than me, is more fair than dropping solo and not being sure how many wolf packs of veteran players are present.

But since the fact that with a few friends you are more likely not to be on the receiving side, I would really like to go cbill farming in a setup like this...

[Marius Romanis]

El Bandito, on 16 April 2017 - 12:07 AM, said:

But not enough players is perfectly valid reason. MWO needs at least 10x more players to have acceptable level of MM.

The population is so bad BECAUSE we dont have a good matchmaking system.

[El Bandito]

CadoAzazel, on 16 April 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

The population is so bad BECAUSE we dont have a good matchmaking system.

Even during the Elo system in the past we did not have the necessary amount of population. The population is low currently, but MM system is not the chief culprit of it.

[Tarl Cabot]

CadoAzazel, on 16 April 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

The population is so bad BECAUSE we dont have a good matchmaking system.

Come on, have stats to back that up? There are lots of variables of that affects the population.

• Niche IP
  
• High learning curve
  
• Lack of patience and the need for instant satisfaction. Many players are used to respawn games, but when their mech is destroyed in MWO they have to start a new game.
  
• Players brought in by friends are fed to the wolves (group game) instead of assisting them through the Academy courses, then running through some private matches while occasionally running thru solo queue.
  
• The above added to playing on a system where FPS is not at a satisfactory level, partially due to Cryengine and lack of optimization (big difference between testing grounds/academy and live games).
  
• Both PGI and players' piss poor attitudes, especially when lack or extreme delay of features or updates to fix issues.
  
• Loss of critical mass when losing segments of the population such unit leadership due to many of the about issues.
  
• Other and newer games that provide that more instant gratification in a GOD mode state that is aimed more at the single player and/or is missing many of the above issues.
  
• Non-existent advertisement.
  
• etc etc etc

There are games with one type of mecha or another included in it, and eventually there will be a battletech game that is more like the boardgame coming out but for many Mechwarrior Online is where it is at, with its flaws.