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Is Pilots- Clan Op?


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#41 B0oN

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 01:51 PM

Ever seen those so called OP poptarts get torn apart by massed ERLL´s ... midair ?

Thats why I like IS mechs ... I dont need to fear any poptart at all ... they will be up long enough to get a whiff of ERLL vomit, and with the high mounts of the BLR that will be even funny .

Also, y u no countapoptart ?

#42 Pihoqahiak

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 02:37 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 22 April 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

Except even the lore made for **** gameplay, so bad that the original developers nuked the gameworld to functionally start over with 1 to 1 balance. The whole concept was a mistake that they walked back and changed. The idea that we need to repeat the same mistakes to get to the same logical conclusion they got to is a bad idea to begin with.


That was far more driven by the desire to make something new to sell than anything else. Just like almost every other game franchise that has ever done a similar "reboot" type gimmick.

#43 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:31 PM

Quote

C-xl comparable to lfe, standerd and clan standerd=comparable. Is xl is unbalanced because theres nothing comparable for it clanside

Care to explain why you consider cXL being comparable to LFE instead of isXL in a game where actual engine crits have no bearing/does not affect mechs until an entire ST is lost on the XL engines in MWO? And IS/Star League era components are also bulkier and heavier than most Clan tech components. For the cXL, Clans reduce the size from 12 slots to 10 slots, and it is in a game that used dice for probabilities and where each weapon was rolled for hit/miss and location.

CXL=ISXL=50% weight savings over STD
CXL≠ LFE -- 50% weight savings ≠ 25% weight savings

#44 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:34 PM

View PostTarl Cabot, on 23 April 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

Care to explain why you consider cXL being comparable to LFE instead of isXL in a game where actual engine crits have no bearing/does not affect mechs until an entire ST is lost on the XL engines in MWO? And IS/Star League era components are also bulkier and heavier than most Clan tech components. For the cXL, Clans reduce the size from 12 slots to 10 slots, and it is in a game that used dice for probabilities and where each weapon was rolled for hit/miss and location.

CXL=ISXL=50% weight savings over STD
CXL≠ LFE -- 50% weight savings ≠ 25% weight savings


Potato's dont have a real understanding Tarl.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 23 April 2017 - 03:34 PM.


#45 MischiefSC

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:59 PM

View PostPihoqahiak, on 23 April 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:


That was far more driven by the desire to make something new to sell than anything else. Just like almost every other game franchise that has ever done a similar "reboot" type gimmick.


Maybe, I can't say the original motivation dave that as the sort of nerd who went to gaming cons for BT at the time one of the panels had one of the developers apologize for how it was done (Clans) and that it created a ton of issues and that tournaments almost universally went to Clan v Clan or historic IS vs IS and that every other major game project since then has avoided that era lime the plague. The PC games were made for SP,which is perfect for Clans as the player being OP AF, mowing through hordes was right up the Clan release alley.

The community went incredibly toxic at Clans release and the contempt for Clans was over the top, even by my standards.

#46 nehebkau

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 04:26 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 19 April 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

I'll take a Clan mech over an IS mech of equal tonnage in a duel 9 times in 10. Clan mechs are heavily represented in comp play for a reason as well; best in class almost across the board.

In FW however Clans are superior if and only if the team in Clan mechs plays super aggressive, exploiting their mobility and burst damage advantage. Most Clan players fail in Clan mechs because Clan mechs walking backwards are not faster than IS mechs moving forward and if you're not hustling to get into position first then the mobility advantage is largely lost. If you're staring each other down, etc. then it's also no real advantage.


So much this. Clan mechs ARE better but if you play to their weakness then you are going to be a weak player. So many people try to take the QP mentality into FW and wonder why they get stomped.


View Postjustcallme A S H, on 23 April 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

Indeed. Many T1 people shouldn't be there.


This is so true. I know so many T1 players who appear to have gotten their rank because of the group-queue.... get them into solo play and you would swear they are T5.

Edited by nehebkau, 23 April 2017 - 04:29 PM.


#47 Catten Hart

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 04:31 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 22 April 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Mixed tech would mean everyone would take Clan XL, Clan Endo, Clan FF, Clan DHS, Clan SPLs, Clan Gauss, Clan ERPPCs, Clan Gauss, Clan BAP, Clan ECM, the free Clan CASE. In some instances Clan LBX and Clan UACs, Clan MGs and Clan Flamers.

They would take IS LPLs, in some instances IS ACs and in a couple of cases IS ERLLs maybe.

Yeah. That's it. Nobody would bother is IS MLs, IS LLs, IS MPLs, IS SLs or SPLs, IS LB10X, IS SRMs, is MGs, is Flamers. I can't say about LRMs because nobody who's making good decisions on mech design is taking LRMs anyway. I'm guessing the half-weight LRMs are still probably better but hard to say.

Nobody would take IS engines, IS Endo, is FF, is DHS, etc.

The only reason FW is reasonably balanced now is that Clans can bring less total tonnage. That's not balanced, it's ******* balance in order to try and create the illusion of balance.
You missed a critical part of what I said.

Only *weapons* would be able to be swapped. But on that note, maybe I'm the only person willing to accept the lower damage and higher weight of IS Weaponry in favor of lower heat.

It's not like I'm unaware of the consequences of what happens regardless, it's just that I accept them as something that would need to be addressed.

#48 Arkaiko

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:39 PM

clan weapons got better range and more damage, uses less slots and are lighter so yes, even PGI recognizes that clan hitboxes are much better that IS hitboxes, that will be fixed at civil war patch

#49 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:43 PM

View PostArkaiko, on 23 April 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

clan weapons got better range and more damage, uses less slots and are lighter so yes, even PGI recognizes that clan hitboxes are much better that IS hitboxes, that will be fixed at civil war patch


Say wut, the first part of your post is correct the second part makes no sense. All the civil war patch is giving IS is stuff the clans already have plus a couple of extra to even out the tech somewhat.

#50 MischiefSC

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:57 PM

View PostCatten Hart, on 23 April 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

You missed a critical part of what I said.

Only *weapons* would be able to be swapped. But on that note, maybe I'm the only person willing to accept the lower damage and higher weight of IS Weaponry in favor of lower heat.

It's not like I'm unaware of the consequences of what happens regardless, it's just that I accept them as something that would need to be addressed.


You're still better off with Clan tech higher heat because of more DHS.

Clan mechs run hotter much of the time because you can build them to a higher alpha. Build a Clan mech to the same alpha as an IS equiv and you'll have better range and better heat but a longer burn time.


#51 Catten Hart

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:04 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 23 April 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

You're still better off with Clan tech higher heat because of more DHS.

Clan mechs run hotter much of the time because you can build them to a higher alpha. Build a Clan mech to the same alpha as an IS equiv and you'll have better range and better heat but a longer burn time.
It's a damage versus time firing thing for me. I prefer IS Medium Lasers to Clan ERMLs due to the drastically lower heat incomparison as well as shorter burn time, but I'd probably end up mixing C-MPLs and IS Mediums.

If I'm shut down or am overheating, I'm not doing as much damage because I'm trying to stay cooler; If I override to kill you, I'm likely going to die unless I kill you within a few seconds of hitting override. Which is why I love IS Weapons, because they let me keep from dying of overheat or overheating in the first place for longer, and they tend to deal damage in a shorter span of time when they are firing.

In the end, you do you. It's not going to happen anyways, so there's no use in getting into a pissing match over it.

Edited by Catten Hart, 23 April 2017 - 06:04 PM.


#52 slide

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:30 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 23 April 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:


The community went incredibly toxic at Clans release and the contempt for Clans was over the top, even by my standards.


Some of that toxicity was justified by the people who understood what would happen, particularly if the Clans were introduced as described in lore. It has taken nearly 3 years to bring the Clan tech some where close to being balanced.

IMO introducing Clans when they did was a mistake. From a financial POV it was a great boon, but the game wasn't ready for it. Perhaps it still isn't. They needed a functioning, robust CW with the existing 6 IS factions before they introduced 4 more. But that is another discussion I suppose.

My silent protest against this continues. I refuse to play or own Clan tech. If they introduce mixed tech (clan weapons on IS mech or Vice versa) then I will quit the game altogether. PGI can barely balance what they have now. Mixed tech is a can of worms that they have no chance of balancing.

It will be interesting, but most likely painful, to see how the new tech integrates into the game.

#53 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:39 PM

I think PGI is dead set against mixed tech so dont worry about that happening.

#54 slide

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:45 PM

View PostCarl Vickers, on 23 April 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

I think PGI is dead set against mixed tech so don't worry about that happening.


I am aware of this. It is probably PGI's best decision to date.

#55 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:48 PM

View Postslide, on 23 April 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:


I am aware of this. It is probably PGI's best decision to date.


Best or only ;p

Introducing Clans was due to IGP, PGI didnt want to do it but IGP saw the dollar signs, hence gold mechs, balance is getting closer, still a few outliers to bring into step, C-XL v IS-XL as an example.

#56 slide

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:39 PM

View PostCarl Vickers, on 23 April 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:


Best or only ;p

Introducing Clans was due to IGP, PGI didnt want to do it but IGP saw the dollar signs, hence gold mechs, balance is getting closer, still a few outliers to bring into step, C-XL v IS-XL as an example.


LOL. Gold mechs, I actually knew a few people who bought these. I don't actually think I have ever seen one on the field.

What is really sad though is the number of people, who actually bought them in good faith, who no longer play the game because they were shafted is some other way by PGI/IGP.

Whilst on the subject of good decisions. It was probably good that PGI got out from under IGP as they would likely have been dragged down along with IGP. Then nobody would even be here to complain about it. IGP and the people who ran it were nothing but a bunch of out right liars and criminals (fraudsters).

#57 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:51 PM

I know someone who brought every single gold mech variant, be good to have that much spare cash laying around, gold mechs would have been the last thing I would have spent that amount of cash on but to each his own.

It was a good thing when PGI brought IGP out and got rid of them.

#58 slide

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:21 PM

View PostCarl Vickers, on 23 April 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

I know someone who brought every single gold mech variant, be good to have that much spare cash laying around, gold mechs would have been the last thing I would have spent that amount of cash on but to each his own.

It was a good thing when PGI brought IGP out and got rid of them.


I hope they still play the game. Can't remember exactly is that 8 or 12 mechs.

Either way I if spent that much money on this game my wife would have my nuts in a sling. I would hear the word "Cruise" mentioned repeatedly until I sold some body parts to cover it. I have spent a lot on this game, but no where near that and over the life of the game too not the relatively short period they were available for.

#59 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:25 PM

View Postslide, on 23 April 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:


I hope they still play the game. Can't remember exactly is that 8 or 12 mechs.

Either way I if spent that much money on this game my wife would have my nuts in a sling. I would hear the word "Cruise" mentioned repeatedly until I sold some body parts to cover it. I have spent a lot on this game, but no where near that and over the life of the game too not the relatively short period they were available for.


I feel ya man, no way my wife would let me spend that kind of money on a game. Yes he does still play the game and has a drop deck for FP that is all gold lol. When I am on his side I find it hard to not shoot the gold mech, bad habit I have there.

#60 Grus

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 11:35 AM

View PostCarl Vickers, on 22 April 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:


Dunning Kruger speaking above.


You say this alot. There is another saying, if everyone around you is "wrong", make sure that it's not just you.





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