69 replies to this topic

[cinco]

Wydell, on 21 July 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

It's awkward to have a war machine have such an obvious weakness as an open cockpit design, but you have to figure a balance of battlefield awareness with safety. Cameras can be blinded.

yeah huge problem for tanks...not really. the solution: sensor suites. cameras, periscopes, hatches. so many things more plausible than a huge glass cockpit.

but it's too late to change that now, obviously.

[aresfiend]

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Those are not features of a neurohelmet they read your mind or output they do not augment human beings.

Dude.... Some of the displays are projected onto the front glass (Depending on the design, I'm guess that it's this design being pre-3050). If all the neurohelmet accomplishes is just to read your mind then why were they FULL head.

cinco, on 21 July 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

yeah huge problem for tanks...not really. the solution: sensor suites. cameras, periscopes, hatches. so many things more plausible than a huge glass cockpit.

You have to remember with tanks is that they have a crew of 4 or more, one dedicated to driving, one to sight, one to gunning, and one to loading the weapon. In a mech you have ONE pilot, period. He also has a LOT more to manage than just sight, driving, and gunning (although he doesn't have to worry about reloading).

Edited by aresfiend, 21 July 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Volomon]

grimzod, on 21 July 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

It was a tactic in ww2 to blind tank optics by igniting flames / jellied gasoline or using flame throwers on tanks to gunk up their optics, well said.

Except these so called optics were like submarine tubes and open slits in a tank where you could literially reach in and touch someone. You really think they had high tech cameras in WW2? Your point is against using the human eye you just don't realize it.

[CCC Dober]

I'd welcome a bullet time sequence when you go down due to a headshot. Maybe we will be able to see smileys on missile warheads or AC shells, who knows

Always made my day when I saw those Flak Cannon shells incoming back in the good old Unreal Tournament days
But given the choice between that and this ...



... the personalized ammo wins hands down

Screw your gold ammo, Wargaming. This is miles better

[RAM]

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

If they used cameras then they would have DRASTICALLY worse views with a LOT more weight to implement it. There's no other way around it other than cameras which just don't compare to a window and the human eye

Except that they do use cameras: Mechs gave a 360° view compressed into the forward VIEW SCREEN.


RAM
ELH

[Volomon]

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Dude.... Some of the displays are projected onto the front glass (Depending on the design, I'm guess that it's this design being pre-3050). If all the neurohelmet accomplishes is just to read your mind then why were they FULL head.

Same reason pilots and tankers wear full helmets I assume so you won't bash your head against something and die. Also it provides a seal with the mechwarrior coolant suit and provides it's own atmosphere little hard to do if it was just some wires. One of the reasons you don't just cook and die in a mechwarrior fight.

Edited by Volomon, 21 July 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[aresfiend]

RAM, on 21 July 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Except that they do use cameras: Mechs gave a 360° view compressed into the forward VIEW SCREEN.


RAM
ELH

Not a 360 degree view, you are wrong there. You can see 360 degrees, yes, but only two or three views are actually done with cameras and that's down, rear and then POSSIBLY a third wherever it might be.

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Same reason pilots and tankers wear full helmets I assume so you won't bash your head against something and die. Also it provides a seal with the mechwarrior coolant suit and provides it's own atmosphere. One of the reasons you don't just cook and die in a mechwarrior fight.

They don't wear full helmets. They wear helmets that cover the top, back, and sides of their heads, but not a true full helmet. Also, it's not the coolant suit that keeps a Mechwarrior alive in their mech, it just helps to make it more livable.

Edited by aresfiend, 21 July 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[Jukebox1986]

Remember: We so not talk about simple glass (or bulletproof glass).
It´s Ferro-Glass or something like that. (Do not know the right name.)
In fact the Armour is similar - just the amount of armour changes.

[grimzod]

cinco, on 21 July 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

yeah huge problem for tanks...not really. the solution: sensor suites. cameras, periscopes, hatches. so many things more plausible than a huge glass cockpit.

but it's too late to change that now, obviously.

All of which are still weakspots, just like the nbc filter in an Abrams.

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

All of those features are built into the neurohelmet..... Why would you need to replace ferroglass (I forgot the name originally) with cameras to accomplish what the neurohelmet can do anyway?

Thats not the primary function of a neuro helmot - its balance.

[aresfiend]

grimzod, on 21 July 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Thats not the primary function of a neuro helmot - its balance.

I never said it was the primary function, but it's there.

"Hey, my new car has working A/C!"
"That's not the primary function therefore it cannot have it."
"Okay...."

[grimzod]

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Same reason pilots and tankers wear full helmets I assume so you won't bash your head against something and die. Also it provides a seal with the mechwarrior coolant suit and provides it's own atmosphere little hard to do if it was just some wires. One of the reasons you don't just cook and die in a mechwarrior fight.

While an aerospace jock wears a full suit mechjocks do not, unless its oen fo the exceedingly rare Star League era suits. But no mechjock wears a sealed environment suit - they'd cook. Basic uniform in a 3025 mech is shorts and a teeshirt, plus helmet thats it. Anything more and your asking for heatstroke.

[Joseph Mallan]

I will be putting cross hairs over the cockpit of my enemy when I fire. It is how I trained as a Marine, and it will be how I target my opponents. if the developers have done their job right, and spun the math, head shots will be difficult even for someone who can put 7 of 10 rounds in a paper target's head and shoulders at 1000m.

If I get shot out of my cockpit often then I guess I will need to change my combat strategy.

[grimzod]

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I never said it was the primary function, but it's there.

"Hey, my new car has working A/C!"
"That's not the primary function therefore it cannot have it."
"Okay...."

Apples and oranges only the most advanced helmets even offer anyhting more than the basic balance thing - SL era ones can also offer a sense of limb awareness. Some also have security features built in - thats pretty much it unless your a scion of some House.

Edited by grimzod, 21 July 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[aresfiend]

grimzod, on 21 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Apples and oranges only the most advanced helmets even offer anythign mroe than the basic balance thing - SL era ones can also offer a sense of limb awareness.

But it IS a basic feature until after the Clan invasion.

[Wydell]

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Eyes can't? I would imagine the human eye would be far more suscepetible. Don't we today enter the battlefield with visors and googles in an array of assortments? Imagine landing on a 4 sun world, you probably couldn't function with just your eyes. Same reason fighter pilots don't go flying without a mask.

The only reason it's there is because it's iconic, and that's really it, but really whos to say that "glass" isn't as strong as the rest of the mech?

I'm not arguing that. I wore big ugly BCGs in the air force, and even a pair of sunglasses. We had night vision, but that was a separate unit to our hummer. It wasn't part of a heads up display or anything like that.

Tom Clancy's video games lied about that too. NVGs suck.


No, there is definitely some kind of augmentation. HUD. It's not part of the neurohelmet, It's probably some sort of display on the inside of the "glass" cockpit. That way any form of augmented view is simply an overlay of what is already seen, And I seem to remember that the novels make a point of transparent FF armor being available (but insanely expensive), and not quite as good as the non-see-through stuff.

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

All of those features are built into the neurohelmet..... Why would you need to replace ferroglass (I forgot the name originally) with cameras to accomplish what the neurohelmet can do anyway?

The way I saw it described was that a neurohelmet only provided stability control, there was nothing else there to act specifically like that. In a way, it makes sense. Being augmented with heat vision for outside the mech means that you would be at a disadvantage looking at stuff inside the mech (say, your comm gear). If the view out was the only part that was augmented, then it would work better.

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

The only problem with this theory or remark is jets are not ment to take hits so seeing through glass is fine. There is no armor on a jet. If in the future there were armored jets, I doubt they would put some glass on it.



Those are not features of a neurohelmet they read your mind or output they do not augment human beings.

Jets actually do have armor. It's just not very much.

Except the A-10. That thing has a titanium tub for the pilot.

And I strongly back the last statement, if you can't already tell.

[Brenden]

People who claim Mechwarrior Online Should have headshots, I applaud you.
Those that don't for any reason...

[grimzod]

Go take a look at the technology in modern jet cockpits...its not car windowglass.

[aresfiend]

Wydell, on 21 July 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

The way I saw it described was that a neurohelmet only provided stability control, there was nothing else there to act specifically like that. In a way, it makes sense. Being augmented with heat vision for outside the mech means that you would be at a disadvantage looking at stuff inside the mech (say, your comm gear). If the view out was the only part that was augmented, then it would work better.

Erp, sorry. Mechs don't even have heat vision... Anyway, I was thinking that the HUD was projected onto it along with the light amplification. My bad.

[grimzod]

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Erp, sorry. Mechs don't even have heat vision... Anyway, I was thinking that the HUD was projected onto it along with the light amplification. My bad.

Thermal sensors, magnetic, seismic. THe mech does HAVE them just not in the helmet.

[Wydell]

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Erp, sorry. Mechs don't even have heat vision... Anyway, I was thinking that the HUD was projected onto it along with the light amplification. My bad.

I was specifically referencing the Frozen City map. If you watch the video, they have a classic thermal camera view for poor visibility situations.