8 replies to this topic

[Sevronis]

So I was just browsing about sarna.net recently when I came across something regarding the TDR-5SS stock loadout on there. It reads:


TDR-5SS The 5SS Thunderbolt is a Steiner variant introduced in 2930 that depends more on direct long-range fire instead of missiles. The 'Mech carries a Kreuss PPC as its primary weapon in its right arm, replaces the left torso LRM launcher for an SRM-6 and removes the SRM-2 to make room for two Zippo Mark IX Flamers in the left arm. To help with the 'Mech's added heat load, the 5SS variant has twenty one heat sinks.

I underlined and made bold the part that stood out to me. Then I realized the 5SS as it is in MWO does not have two energy hardpoints in the left arm, and only has ONE flamer which was put in the RT. All this time, I didn't realize that until now. I tried searching the forums to see if there was anything about the reason why this was done, but didn't seem to come up with anything. Having two energy hardpoints in the left arm would have made this variant even more unique as currently NONE of the T-Bolts available have any left arm energy points, so that would have been a first.

Anyone seriously know the reason why this was altered from the original TRO source, preferably someone from PGI? Was it because the Thunderbolt was originally one of the unseen? Or was maybe the TRO incorrect to begin with (thus causing what was put on Sarna to be incorrect as well)?

Edited by Sevronis, 20 April 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Sevronis, on 20 April 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

So I was just browsing about sarna.net recently when I came across something regarding the TDR-5SS stock loadout on there. It reads:


TDR-5SS The 5SS Thunderbolt is a Steiner variant introduced in 2930 that depends more on direct long-range fire instead of missiles. The 'Mech carries a Kreuss PPC as its primary weapon in its right arm, replaces the left torso LRM launcher for an SRM-6 and removes the SRM-2 to make room for two Zippo Mark IX Flamers in the left arm. To help with the 'Mech's added heat load, the 5SS variant has twenty one heat sinks.

I underlined and made bold the part that stood out to me. Then I realized the 5SS as it is in MWO does not have two energy hardpoints in the left arm, and only has ONE flamer which was put in the RT. All this time, I didn't realize that until now. I tried searching the forums to see if there was anything about the reason why this was done, but didn't seem to come up with anything. Having two energy hardpoints in the left arm would have made this variant even more unique as currently NONE of the T-Bolts available have any left arm energy points, so that would have been a first.

Anyone seriously know the reason why this was altered from the original TRO source, preferably someone from PGI? Was it because the Thunderbolt was originally one of the unseen? Or was maybe the TRO incorrect to begin with (thus causing what was put on Sarna to be incorrect as well)?

Oddly MekTek Lab has it as MWO has it, which generally they have it correct as they pull right from the official record sheets. So this is rather odd I must say, more odd is that for some reason MekTek Lab is saying the sheet the Thunderbolt 5SS is on is from the introductory box which means pre-harmony gold hissyfit era, sadly my friend who had a copy of that record sheet book lost it in Michigan. So if someone has it, please do look it up, other places it might be is the original printing of the TRO/Record Sheets for 3025 before Unseen stuff was pulled.

[Luscious Dan]

Sarna isn't always right, and some record sheets did get changed over the years. Not sure what the deal is with the 5SS.

For what it's worth, the website I use for CBT record sheets has nothing in the left arm, and one flamer in the RT.

Google is revealing some similar discussions in 2013 on the BT forums, people trying to figure out if/when the record sheets and other sources may have been changed to cause this confusion. You're not the first to notice it.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 20 April 2017 - 01:13 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Might have been an error where they thought it had an extra ton, some early builds were a lil wonky sometimes. Why arm->torso? No idea.

[SpiralFace]

Sarna =/= TRO's.
Sarna =/= Battletech Canon.

It is a fan made Wiki and is not infallible.

The official Unabridged Record sheets for Battletech proper (The things used for official Battletech Tornmament for legal canon builds / BV value,) has the TDR-5SS as having only a single Flamer equipped in the Right torso.

Sarna is wrong in this case.

[Escef]

SpiralFace, on 20 April 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

It is a fan made Wiki and is not infallible.

Usually very accurate, as Battletech fans tend to be a bit on the fanatical side, but not infallible. (Especially as some fans are using out of date material, and others have so much difficulty making themselves understood in English that their descriptive text is worthless.)

[Alan Davion]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 20 April 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Oddly MekTek Lab has it as MWO has it, which generally they have it correct as they pull right from the official record sheets. So this is rather odd I must say, more odd is that for some reason MekTek Lab is saying the sheet the Thunderbolt 5SS is on is from the introductory box which means pre-harmony gold hissyfit era, sadly my friend who had a copy of that record sheet book lost it in Michigan. So if someone has it, please do look it up, other places it might be is the original printing of the TRO/Record Sheets for 3025 before Unseen stuff was pulled.

I actually bought a previously owned 3rd edition intro box off Ebay sometime last year, just pulled it out to try and answer this.

Thing is though, the record sheet book as far as I can tell doesn't list the 5SS.

The mechs listed are the Locust 1V, Stinger 3R, Wasp 1A, Phoenix Hawk 1, Griffin 1N, Shadow Hawk 2H, Wolverine 6R, Rifleman 3N, Crusader 3R, Thunderbolt 5S, Archer 2R, Warhammer 6R, Marauder 3R and Battlemaster 1G.

SpiralFace, on 20 April 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Sarna =/= TRO's.
Sarna =/= Battletech Canon.

It is a fan made Wiki and is not infallible.

The official Unabridged Record sheets for Battletech proper (The things used for official Battletech Tornmament for legal canon builds / BV value,) has the TDR-5SS as having only a single Flamer equipped in the Right torso.

Sarna is wrong in this case.

The 3025 TRO PDF I have though does mirror what Sevronis says that Sarna lists the 5SS having. Only to a point though, as according to the TRO the two flamers replace the previous SRM2 rack in the right torso.

So it seems reasonable to assume that somewhere along the line the stats were altered, and one of the flamers was dropped.

[The Lost Boy]

Check out the books here, its pretty much everything.

https://ttop.rem.uz/...leTech%20.PDFs/

[CycKath]

Escef, on 20 April 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

Usually very accurate, as Battletech fans tend to be a bit on the fanatical side, but not infallible. (Especially as some fans are using out of date material, and others have so much difficulty making themselves understood in English that their descriptive text is worthless.)

Hey! i resemble that remark (the current issues of British English vs. American English are largely my fault )

Looking at my copy of original TRO:3025 it just mentions two flamers replacing SRM-2 rack, but there were soooo many corrected versions of that book its very likely one may have said they were in the arms. As for number flamers in Record Sheet: 3039 Unabridged with the newest record sheet book for that variant its one flamer, but again unsure when that change was made.

At any rate Sarna now lists one flamer in right torso.