42 replies to this topic

[DjPush]

Not gonna lie... I kind of like it. A little frustrating at first but.. Once you get the feel for it. It works pretty well. The nodes actually generate higher bonuses than they do in current game. you don't need every armor bonus or every cool down quirk to get good results. You can get 155 points of CT armor on an Atlas. However, it will cost you weapons, or sensor nodes that you will probably want too..

I'm not giving it the "all good" just yet. I have some more testing to do. However, I think they are on the right track.

[Bishop Steiner]

It's basics are not looking that different than the last one, in the actual Tree itself, though it is modified. I approve because that means Russ actually kept his word not to cave to the handful of whiners from teh last test as for the actual implementation. Seems like the Skill Point and Reimbursements are the big changes, and so far, I am so far in the good on skill points and MC, etc, it's just silly.

But mostly? I just need this game to start moving forward again, instead of being on a hamster wheel.

[Appogee]

The key issue - which remains unaddressed in the new version - is that the new skill tree will:

• increase the advantage of the best chassis over the worst chassis (because the best chassis get access to skill enhancements, while some of the worst chassis' quirks are removed); and
  
• increase the advantage of Clan tech over IS tech (for the same general reason).

It's just really disappointing that PGI continues to ignore (or perhaps be unaware of) the obvious problem about to occur.


Otherwise I am fine with the Skill Tree. (And I was fine with the previous version, too.)

Edited by Appogee, 25 April 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[NextGame]

DjPush, on 25 April 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

Not gonna lie... I kind of like it. A little frustrating at first but.. Once you get the feel for it. It works pretty well. The nodes actually generate higher bonuses than they do in current game. you don't need every armor bonus or every cool down quirk to get good results. You can get 155 points of CT armor on an Atlas. However, it will cost you weapons, or sensor nodes that you will probably want too..

I'm not giving it the "all good" just yet. I have some more testing to do. However, I think they are on the right track.

What's the grind looking like to remaster a mech over and above one that is mastered in the current system? If there's a lot of regrinding to do then i'm probably done with this game.

[Khobai]

Quote

What's the grind looking like to remaster a mech over and above one that is mastered in the current system? If there's a lot of regrinding to do then i'm probably done with this game.

there is no grind. a mastered mech in the old system is a mastered mech in the new system (a mastered mech in the old system automatically gets 91 skill points to spend in the new system)

they got that right at least.

what they completely failed at is fair compensation for modules.

Edited by Khobai, 25 April 2017 - 11:16 PM.

[Johnny Z]

This new skill tree has always looked good to me. The concept looks amazing and not some gimmick like other games do. Expect cheer leaders for other games to do a lot of trolling though. That is always something to keep in mind.

MechWarrior Online competitors are here. For sure.

I am sure MechWarrior Online looks to see what other games are doing also. I doubt they are in any way destructive though. But some competitors do resort to that sort of thing.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 April 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

It's basics are not looking that different than the last one, in the actual Tree itself, though it is modified. I approve because that means Russ actually kept his word not to cave to the handful of whiners from teh last test as for the actual implementation. Seems like the Skill Point and Reimbursements are the big changes, and so far, I am so far in the good on skill points and MC, etc, it's just silly.

But mostly? I just need this game to start moving forward again, instead of being on a hamster wheel.

But, but hamster wheels are the pinnacle of exercising equipment!

[lazytopaz]

Sneaky way to nerf the f#$k out of many IS mechs that were average/good (right in the sweet spot, not op, but not terribad - it strictly depends on skill of a pilot) because they had quirks... now most of 'em will be just mediocre/meh and quite similiar to one another. Nothing to make 'em unique. No fun allowed.

N1 piggy.

[Xetelian]

Appogee, on 25 April 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

The key issue - which remains unaddressed in the new version - is that the new skill tree will:

• increase the advantage of the best chassis over the worst chassis (because the best chassis get access to skill enhancements, while some of the worst chassis' quirks are removed); and
  
• increase the advantage of Clan tech over IS tech (for the same general reason).

It's just really disappointing that PGI continues to ignore (or perhaps be unaware of) the obvious problem about to occur.



Otherwise I am fine with the Skill Tree. (And I was fine with the previous version, too.)

Completely ignoring the fact that all my clan mechs have 12% cool down from modules and 5% cool down from fast fire. Also range and Radar Dep, Seismic.


At least the IS mechs get to keep most of their buffs.

[Jingseng]

Edit: magically posted to wrong thread =p

Edited by Jingseng, 26 April 2017 - 01:56 AM.

[El Bandito]

Xetelian, on 26 April 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Completely ignoring the fact that all my clan mechs have 12% cool down from modules and 5% cool down from fast fire. Also range and Radar Dep, Seismic.

At least the IS mechs get to keep most of their buffs.

El Bandito, on 26 April 2017 - 02:13 AM, said:

Except IS mechs are having those old skills removed as well, AND THEIR OFFENSIVE QUIRKS. Why is it so hard to see that?

Clan mechs getting one step backward and two step forward in the new tree. IS mechs getting two step backward and two step forward in the new tree. Which means Clan superiority is getting wider.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

It's basics are not looking that different than the last one, in the actual Tree itself, though it is modified. I approve because that means Russ actually kept his word not to cave to the handful of whiners from teh last test as for the actual implementation. Seems like the Skill Point and Reimbursements are the big changes, and so far, I am so far in the good on skill points and MC, etc, it's just silly.

But mostly? I just need this game to start moving forward again, instead of being on a hamster wheel.

russ did say that the skill tree was the last old vestige

[The Lighthouse]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

It's basics are not looking that different than the last one, in the actual Tree itself, though it is modified. I approve because that means Russ actually kept his word not to cave to the handful of whiners from teh last test as for the actual implementation. Seems like the Skill Point and Reimbursements are the big changes, and so far, I am so far in the good on skill points and MC, etc, it's just silly.

But mostly? I just need this game to start moving forward again, instead of being on a hamster wheel.

So, this "moving forward again" meant previously.....

1) Screwed scale of the mechs to make sure no one actually plays light mechs anymore (frequently I see 0% on Light mech queue, and many QP games without a single light on both sides.)

2) Re-did the mini-map to reduce its usefulness.

3) Implemented a whole bunch of the mode that is so useless that we have a whining thread about low population every single week (Faction Play.)



Yes, you are right, this game is moving forward again.



Moving forward again to death that is.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lupis Volk, on 26 April 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

But, but hamster wheels are the pinnacle of exercising equipment!

and if PGI keeps letting a tiny but overly vocal percentage of the community hold them hostage, it should be their new Company Logo... to represent how they keep running in circles and getting nowhere. (As opposed to a what should be their symbol, the Sloth, because they have been making microscopic forward progress, sort of, mostly, kind of, for the last 5 years, with the occasional backslide thrown in)

The Lighthouse, on 26 April 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

So, this "moving forward again" meant previously.....

1) Screwed scale of the mechs to make sure no one actually plays light mechs anymore (frequently I see 0% on Light mech queue, and many QP games without a single light on both sides.)

2) Re-did the mini-map to reduce its usefulness.

3) Implemented a whole bunch of the mode that is so useless that we have a whining thread about low population every single week (Faction Play.)



Yes, you are right, this game is moving forward again.



Moving forward again to death that is.

same whine for 5 years. Still here. Huh. Go figure.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The reimbursements make all the difference, IMO. I'd be happy to see this version move forward- any other issues it has can be tackled by other patches down the road.

Under the last PTS and the one before it, the costs were set up around the assumption that module refunds alone would cover the respec costs of everyone's existing 'Mechs... and as I and many other players pointed out, that wasn't true at all. Adding cbill costs to skills that were previously available for XP alone meant that anyone without a small mountain of modules to refund would have been left with a stable full of 'Mechs that they would have to grind all over again, because the refund wouldn't cover the added skill point costs. That is no longer an issue with this PTS build.

Refunding unlocked skills with ready-to-spend skill points sidesteps that mess entirely. It means that, on day one of the Skill Tree patch, I'd be able to fully restore all of my existing 'Mechs to their pre-patch capabilities without having to grind out another several hundred million cbills for that purpose. Refunds are now effectively one-for-one; you get back what you put in, no matter whether you had five 'Mechs or fifty, whether you had full sets of modules for every 'Mech or just a few to swap around. I'm happy with that. I'm giddy over that. It's exactly what I was hoping for.

I have my fingers and toes all crossed that this version of Skill Tree is the one that sticks. The previous versions had me not wanting to play anymore, but now I'm excited for the new direction the game is taking. It's not perfect, but I can live with that. All of the remaining concerns I have with Skill Tree can wait until after it's live- in the interest of getting the cart back in motion now that it's at least facing the right way around.

[Hestan]

DjPush, on 25 April 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

Not gonna lie... I kind of like it. A little frustrating at first but.. Once you get the feel for it. It works pretty well. The nodes actually generate higher bonuses than they do in current game. you don't need every armor bonus or every cool down quirk to get good results. You can get 155 points of CT armor on an Atlas. However, it will cost you weapons, or sensor nodes that you will probably want too..

I'm not giving it the "all good" just yet. I have some more testing to do. However, I think they are on the right track.

Ran into an uparmored Atlas, not fun dumping many alphas into it and it not dieing.

[Lukoi Banacek]

DjPush, on 25 April 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

The nodes actually generate higher bonuses than they do in current game. you don't need every armor bonus or every cool down quirk to get good results.

I'm not hating on the skill tree for the most part, but this line here isn't exactly true.

In some cases, you can exceed current improvements over the mastery+module system in stove-piped cases, but you lose bonuses overall in comparison. Since that applies to all mechs across the board, the net isn't bad, but if you're used to having a certain mobility, certain survivability, the same exact available consumables, weapons ranges, weapons CD's that you currently enjoy on live, you are going to find you cannot replicate that on PTS in my experience. You can get some solutions that come close and probably bring bonuses you don't care about, but it's not the same.

That plus engine decoupling, the de-quirkening of under performing mechs etc.....some of it's kind of a negative (but that's part of leaving feedback with PGI). Overall, it's got some merit, but could definitely use some significant tweaks before migrating to live. Nothing that should be difficult to code tho imo (we're talking the movement of some nodes, streamlining of some branches and a relook at quirks for the most part, not a fundament restructuring of the system necessarily).

[Dee Eight]

...and people are going to complain about it more than they actually PLAY it.

[MischiefSC]

New skill tree looks good in a lot of ways.

Much of it isn't worth it however. A 5% jam reduction is irrelevant. 7.5% cooldown isn't worth it on most weapon types - lights who use fast refire like MLs or smaller will find it functionally invisible most the time. The LBX spread I tested with and without at weapon range and it made no discernable difference on any LBX setup tested same mech/range with and without.

However, overall, I'm good with it. So long as existing quirks are left alone.

[Lukoi Banacek]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

However, overall, I'm good with it. So long as existing quirks are left alone.

You must not have read all of the notes, because existing quirks were not left alone. Or did you mean, no more tweaks to quirks past the current PTS version?