549 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

sierra gulf, on 25 April 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

From my understanding, having already mastered a mech only provides you with enough HSP to unlock the 91 nodes required to "master" it under the new system. You can use the GSP to unlock additional nodes to reduce the xp cost of trying some different combinations.

Why would I want to change a build on any of my mechs with the crazy high recurring XP cost?

Customization is dead... I just need to find a way to deal with it.

[Marius Romanis]

Also isn't this Skill tree PTS #3 not #2 ?

Edited by CadoAzazel, 25 April 2017 - 04:50 PM.

[OffC3nter]

What a hot mess. Any resemblance of balance is going to be borked by change to quirks + skill trees. Strong mechs get stronger while weak mechs get weaker. And then on top of this going and altering how you are going to handle module refunds? That is just a scummy move. Never mind the fact that the large majority of my mechs are already mastered and i don't need exp or skill points, but cbills i'd put to great use and even buy more mech bays leading to more paint jobs meaning i'd spend money on MC. As this stands it is a major turn off which is real disappointing considering right before i read these patch notes i was reading the altered requirements for this past weekend's event. It took mere moments for me to go from "hey they are trying to watch out for us." to "I've lost any excitement and most motivation to play". Adding another currency "refunding" me using that currency which i have next to no use for... yay.

[sierra gulf]

Navid A1, on 25 April 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Why would I want to change a build on any of my mechs with the crazy high recurring XP cost?

Customization is dead... I just need to find a way to deal with it.

I am also weary of the respec cost and it's impact on customization, but I am not certain if I think it will be prohibitive yet. It will all depend on how many nodes I want to change at a time and how often I want to change them. If changing every match, yeah, that would be prohibitive. If changing once every couple of play sessions with a chassis, probably not. I also expect there will be long periods in which I don't change them and so will have a stockpile of xp and perhaps gxp I can draw on. The idea of the xp I earn on a mastered mech having a use beyond conversion to gxp does appeal to me, so my main concern is the specific price of node re-acquisition.

[Cy Mitchell]

Quoted myself from another thread:

Rampage, on 25 April 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

All they need to do is allow everyone that so chooses to sell all their modules back for full purchase price prior to the Skill Tree patch going live. That way those that want C-Bills will get them and those that are happy with the new system will get the GSP. Simple solution.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Okay with having derped around for a while on PTS with and without skills on majority of my mechs I have to say the main bits of feedback are. Modules, refund is every module ever should be refunded via cbills, your SP granted via skill completion works wonderfully, you don't need old modules feeding into the GSP system it just harms the whole system and cheapens it really. In fact, honestly, it is a detriment to people wanting to experiment as they don't have cbills to throw around. Sure they have GSP to, but, that is only for buying new nodes, that doesn't buy a new weapon, or DHS, or engine, or get you endo, or upgrade to DHS. This is IMO the big failing of this PTS. The rest? I think it is solid, nothing really gives too big of a bang for your buck other than multiple strikes. Do not add the ability to carry multiple strikes back into MWO. Multiple UAV's? Sure, that is actually cool, but, strikes? No, just, no, do not. Trim them out of the tree, full stop.

As for engine decoupling, really barely felt it even on mechs I decided to go full ham on and put max engines in, maybe there is a small tiny change that people who operate purely on muscle memory would feel but I didn't feel it. I feel removing the ability to carry multiple strikes (two cool shots, two uav's and one strike is more than enough) and all modules ever bought giving a flat cbill refund instead of GSP are the only two changes I want to see, otherwise, looks solid to me. I don't like the nerfing of quirks for mechs because it puts them on worse footing against clan mechs that already outshine them and replace them in competitive areas and draw people in FP away from IS to clans and makes people go clans to have every edge from the get go over running an IS mech so I feel cutting quirks from IS mechs is the wrong move.

I understand the mobility ones since they are being turned into movement profile stats, but, I don't think the Vindicator would be over performing if it could get 15% more to it's weapons quirks. Or the PXH-1B could get 60%, but, on PTS they cut IS PPC velocity to 30% from 50% and skill tree lets you get up to 10% velocity back, max of 40% velocity, woo? Were PPC PXH-1b's over performing that much? This is what bugs me is I can understand pulling back on say the Warhammer it's offensive quirks to the point that you have to partially invest into firepower to get it's old offensive quirks back, so say it lost 5% PPC velocity (like anyone would care about that), so you invest into 3 velocity nodes to get 6% velocity back for all weapons that feels more fair than cutting say it's hypothetical 20% PPC velocity to 0%, it's historical signature weapons. That is what bugs me the most.

[DESTRUKTROTRON]

Why is everybody complaining about the respec cost of 400 xp? What else are you going to do with that xp once you master the mech. You sound like ppl just complaining for conplainings sake.

[- Pestilence -]

BSK, on 25 April 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Let me repeat the calculation I made for last test session.

I have 300 mechs. Each of these mechs then have 91 nodes that I have to click after this comes live. And of course I have to click a confirm button. We are speaking of 27.300 clicks which become 54.600 if I also have to click the confirm button. If those 54.600 clicks could be managed in 1 secound each then we are speaking of 910 minutes or more than 15 hours that I have to invest into getting my hangar combat ready.

AND YOU ASK WHAT AN ARGUMENT TOO MANY CLICKS ARE?

Well s***, buy a second mouse. For me its a choice not not just "click".

[DESTRUKTROTRON]

Deathlike, on 25 April 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

Does PGI not even look at their own tree and see Gauss being the closest accessible dakka quirk? UACs are jammed in the lower right corner while LBX is in the lower section and has odd stuff in the way.

Then there's arm quirks in the way of more useful quirks like turn speed. Why are they like forced conjoined twins?

Tree still needs more work.

Because UAC and LBX quirks are more powerful so they're further down the tree.

[byter75]

A lot of misgivings with this system stems from how it is being sold, if the system looked more attractive, less convoluted, then it'd leave a much better first impression.

On some level I feel like objectives are a little off base. Mech customization and specialization is already in the game and it'll still be where everyone starts, the mechlab. A much simpler skill tree is all that is needed, something to help compliment our builds rather than this rather bloated design.

But I guess we will all probably have to make do with what a lot of what we've got. Sure game balance is gonna be effected but we can only really find out by implementing it and then fixing things afterwards. I would however try to look forward as to how I can streamline and make this new skill system more attractive in future (whether that be before or after it goes live for real).

[El Bandito]

IS mechs are still overall nerfed. For example, Rifleman-5D will lose full 20% PPC velocity, even after getting back 10% from the skill tree!

This skill tree is still poor in terms of addressing Clan vs. IS balance.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 April 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[paws2sky]

I'll keep this short.

1. I do like how mechs that have been mastered, elited, and even basic'd will be getting something out of the deal. I like how having multiples of the same chassis stacks.

But...

2. I want C-Bills for my modules, not some other currency. I had plans to buy some older mechs, maybe even dabble with some Clan mechs (I feel dirty typing that). I guess I will need to sell my modules for C-Bills at a cut rate so that I can move forward with this plan (once the patch notes are out and it's confirmed that this refund system will happen). Playing and mastering new mechs is what keeps me interested in this game.

3. Too. Many. Clicks. 100+ mechs, 91+ clicks each, plus time to plan the builds. Even if we consider that fact that I really only play 10-15 of my mechs on a regular basis... that's absurd. I thought there were calls for fewer clicks? Did someone's "vision" get in the way of customer feedback?

4. IS vs. Clan balance will not be improved by this system. Clan mechs will make out like bandits. Zero Quirk mechs will suddenly see massive performance jumps, while heavily quirked mechs are getting nerfed. Hopefully the new tech rollout will help level the playing field a bit.

5. I love Urbies, but using an STD 60 Urbie to sell mobility changes? That's not only pandering, it's kind of insulting. If you want to give us a real idea how this works, how about a side-by-side of some of the top dogs that people actually care about? How about something with major mobility quirks? Show us Locusts, Kodiaks, Timbers, Marauder IICs, Supernovas, etc. How about something with MASC?

-paws

EDIT

6. OMG what did you do to the Locust!?

Edited by paws2sky, 25 April 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[dario03]

Wibbledtodeath, on 25 April 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

OK. System for refund is more fair. An improvement on current skill system (which lets face it is BROKEN- with 1 of the veery few options completely non functional), and an improvement on prev PTS.

I do worry about nerfing offensive quirks in underperforming mechs- hope you have some other secrets up your sleeves pgi re this one (I the intent to direct them away from offense, and into scouting/consumable roles????- if so that needs reinforcement in game rewards to be economically viable for those pilots). It has always been my policy to buy and evaluate according to tonnage/engine capacity/hardponts as all else tends to change- so I am not gutted by this, but some people may be (and I must admit, I DID make the mistake of buying a Huggin in my early days and felt the burn when it got a nerf-lesson learned: Trust not in quirks & PGI).

Also- the refund for modules is clearly not working properly in PTS at the moment- I have only a fraction of the modules own listed and refunded (others have reported similar).

On the right track PGI- just a few fixes needed.

I disagree about the refund system being more fair. The new system might work out better for some people but for others it does not. I would much rather have a big stack of cbills than a stack of gsp that I won't need. All my mechs are mastered with at least 15,000xp extra on them plus a big stack of gxp. And I don't plan on going through and respeccing every mech right away. So I would much rather just have the cbills and decide if I want to spend them on new mech's skills or on something else, gsp doesn't give you that choice. And I'm probably not even a great example, I own a decent amount of modules but no where near as many as some others do.

So I would rather they just stuck to the former system of cbill refunds for all, or better yet let us choose how many modules we convert to gsp/cbills.

Though with that said, I do like that they are refunding us in cbills for the modules bought since the announcement and not just doing all gsp.
But does anyone know if the ledger is now showing the cbill module refunds going back to Dec or is it still only showing back to Feb? Announcement says they are changing that but not sure if it was changed in game yet, and its info page in game still says Feb.

Edited by dario03, 25 April 2017 - 08:52 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

El Bandito, on 25 April 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

This skill tree is still poor in terms of addressing Clan vs. IS balance.

was the skill tree supposed to address Clan vs Is balance? I thought the Civil war was doing that?

[Dee Eight]

stocky0904, on 25 April 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

This whole thing is ridiculous.

I own 248 mechs. Lets say 250 mechs. Give me 15 min to level one mech (the time i think it will take to do it carefully), that makes 3750 min for those 250 mechs. 3750 min are 62.5 hours. I have time to play about 6-8 hrs a week, sometimes less because of family, work and other things i have to do atm.

Life is hard buttercup.

[FrigginWaffle]

Good amount of things done right here. Just 2 things I want to adress that I adressed before:

1) Why are you guys holding on to c-bill cost for skill nodes? That's 4+ million for each and every mech that I own. The cost is ridiculous for anyone owning over 80 mechs or more. What do we even need XP for in that case? Please stop doing this. The c-bill grind is enough as it is (even with premium time and no, not everyone has it) to buy, outfit and maybe even re-edit mechs later on. Seriously.

If you for whatever reason cannot let this go, at least give us the option to choose between c-bills or GXP refund on modules. That would recover a little bit of the damage.

2) I like the quirks been downgraded and having the ability to select additional buffs with the nodes. But some mechs seem to be left in the dust completely. Examples like the Spider 5V or the Locust 3V will be essentially disregarded when people look over the chassis since they got nothing going for it compared to the other variants, unless you either want it for being different or making things harder on yourself. Mechs like this still need extra buffs. They need all the help they can get. These 2 examples weren't even overquirked to begin with. They're getting nerfed while Clanner mechs with no quirks get buffed big time now.

Edited by FrigginWaffle, 25 April 2017 - 06:31 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Some of you need to stop hoarding mechs......come on now, lets be serious

[nehebkau]

"Modules purchased prior to December 3rd 2016 are being refunded in the form of General Skill Points (GSP), which can be consumed to unlock Skill Nodes for any 'Mech you wish."

Unacceptable. Glad this was pointed out to me before I did that pre-order of the 3 resistance hero mechs I wanted. I'll hold off on spending any money on this game until this is worked out since this type of "out of left field" change would make me walk away from the game.

[BLOOD WOLF]

wait...........we get MC back?

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 April 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Some of you need to stop hoarding mechs......come on now, lets be serious

So... you don't want people to buy mechpacks?

Because, there's no way of avoiding it when you buy mechpacks.