549 replies to this topic

[DeeHawk]

I like the overall idea of the skill tree, and have been a supporter of the ultimate goal: "Mech specialization" since announcement.
I also like the new refund-system with skill points, even though I didn't have a problem with the one before.

1 thing I can't accept in this:

- You nerf a lot the offensive quirks without any explanation as to how you're going to replace it. Everything is fleshed out except this. These quirks are surely there for a reason? How are these mechs going to compete in the future?

Also worth mentioning, you still need Laser duration to get all Range nodes (example). You call it initial investment. I call it 'in lack of a better solution'.

[lit up pilot]

Rest in peace tree skills.

Edited by lit up pilot, 27 April 2017 - 03:38 AM.

[shameless]

I don't even bother with the weapons tree, I'll never get back what I lose on the mechs that are losing quirks. The bonuses are simply too small and too spread out, and because i still have to take minimally useful nodes to get to nodes I actually want, I focus elsewhere. survivability and sensor trees are a must, and then operations and agility. the only difference in the mechs I've skilled so far happens when they have ECM. Or that one time I maxed out the spider 5v to test JJ.

[Captain Caveman DE]

my 2cents.

so far, I've tested a handful of my clanmechs and also some IS mechs. training course only.

@engine decoupling.
my unquirked clanmechs feel good / where they belong. the kodi is a bit more sluggish, but that's okay / feels right.
my now unquirked ISmechs; everything okay, 'xcept the locust maybe. it feels more like a jennerIIC. feels like a nerf.
as someone piloting the locust from time to time, I feel a bit sad about it. as someone who'd rather duel a kodi or 2 in his timber/huntsman/whatever than being hunted by a locust, I can live with it.
--> needs more playtesting, but not bad.

@less quirks on IS
I'm SURE that's not a good idea. -some- quirks where over-the-top, but most of them are there for a reason.
the new skilltree buffs/nerfs everybody equally, so the situation above is -not- changed by that.
--> I suggest to keep ALL the quirks as is and sort this out AFTER the new skilltree.

@skilltree
I like it, but its STILL way too much clicke-di-click-click. It's fine and fun skilling a single mech - it's a nightmare to do it to the whole collection. we wanna shoot mechs here, we don't wanna do accounting in our freetime. it'll take hours and that's no fun.
--> reduce the nodes from 100+ to 20-30 with meaning.


most important thing IMHO:
more tests. and don't mash the stuff, it's a REALLY bad idea to change several things at once.
make a test for the decoupling, adjust, test again, roll out.
then
make a test on the skilltree, adjust, test again, roll out.
then
make a test on the quirks, adjust, test again, roll out.
and so on..

there's a -by now old- saying "never touch a running system". well.. if you do, you don't change everything at once, but in succession

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 27 April 2017 - 04:39 AM.

[MovinTarget]

DeeHawk, on 27 April 2017 - 03:30 AM, said:

Also worth mentioning, you still need Laser duration to get all Range nodes (example). You call it initial investment. I call it 'in lack of a better solution'.

Apart from ppcs (for obvious reasons), duration tends to be a more important stat anyway. The number of times per game you'll need extra range will be nominal as its difficult to keep enemies in that max-optimal range, but condensing your dmg into shorter period of time is almost always useful...

[Zephrym]

Peiper, on 26 April 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

PGI, this post is spectacular in appearance and depth. I hope that it feels that way working with the skill tree in reality! I still would trade it for a bunch of new PGI made and PLAYER MADE MAPS, combined arms, an economy, black market, tactical and strategic stuff we can do in CW, 8 v 8 or 6 v 6 raids, maybe some team vs. AI challenges that would represent activities that would support mine, or subvert the enemy factions. But it looks very nice, and I hope that it keeps me interested in playing while you guys start adding more meat and depth to the game!

On another note: DO NOT CONVERT MY MODULES INTO XP. I paid for C-bills for them and I want C-Bills back. I don't mind grinding up xp and leveling my mechs, but I absolutely hate grinding for C-bills to buy new stuff ESPECIALLY as I already earned the C-Bills. I've been expecting a C-Bill refund for months. It made me happy. I was excited to see how much I got back for all my 50+ modules. I don't need GXP or whatever. I have tons of that. I don't need XP on mechs I already own and enjoy, I have tons of that. I want my money back, damnit!

THIS.

[Marius Romanis]

William Warriors, on 27 April 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

WE DO NOT WANT THIS SKILL TREE UPGRADE! KARPISH?

Dear Willian Warriors

YES WE DO



Its much better than what we currently have and gets rid of requiring 3 mechs to master 1.

Go look at the polls more people want it as is even though its bad than to put up with the current crap any longer.

[StumbleBee]

Why is the "skill tree" a web rather than a tree? With a linear system instead of this tangled mess, if only adjacent nodes can be unlocked, players could simply select how far out they want to go within a given branch and pay all at once, rather than picking their way through the web. It would also minimize concerns about "filler" nodes and offer clearer tradeoffs (i.e., going further down one branch would mean not going as far into another).

[lazytopaz]

Captain Caveman DE, on 27 April 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

my 2cents.

so far, I've tested a handful of my clanmechs and also some IS mechs. training course only.

@engine decoupling.
my unquirked clanmechs feel good / where they belong. the kodi is a bit more sluggish, but that's okay / feels right.
my now unquirked ISmechs; everything okay, 'xcept the locust maybe. it feels more like a jennerIIC. feels like a nerf.
as someone piloting the locust from time to time, I feel a bit sad about it. as someone who'd rather duel a kodi or 2 in his timber/huntsman/whatever than being hunted by a locust, I can live with it.
--> needs more playtesting, but not bad.

@less quirks on IS
I'm SURE that's not a good idea. -some- quirks where over-the-top, but most of them are there for a reason.
the new skilltree buffs/nerfs everybody equally, so the situation above is -not- changed by that.
--> I suggest to keep ALL the quirks as is and sort this out AFTER the new skilltree.

@skilltree
I like it, but its STILL way too much clicke-di-click-click. It's fine and fun skilling a single mech - it's a nightmare to do it to the whole collection. we wanna shoot mechs here, we don't wanna do accounting in our freetime. it'll take hours and that's no fun.
--> reduce the nodes from 100+ to 20-30 with meaning.


most important thing IMHO:
more tests. and don't mash the stuff, it's a REALLY bad idea to change several things at once.
make a test for the decoupling, adjust, test again, roll out.
then
make a test on the skilltree, adjust, test again, roll out.
then
make a test on the quirks, adjust, test again, roll out.
and so on..

there's a -by now old- saying "never touch a running system". well.. if you do, you don't change everything at once, but in succession

This dude got this right.
This game needs skill tree.
But it needs to be implemented carefully with feedback from people.
IS quirks need to stay where they are.
IS quirks should/may be removed/tweaked/reworked after skill tree is set in stone and done.
Then and ONLY then after people test different mechs throught playing them you should maybe consider some tweaks to the quirks.



TL;DR version
PGI DON'T TOUCH QUIRKS, IMPLEMENT SKILL TREE, POLISH IT.

(then maaaaaaaybe, but only maaaaaaaybe when ppl whine some mechs got super OP, nurf plx, etc - which I doubt would happen for any mech that already relies on his quirks to carry him through mediocricy; maaaybe then consider some tweaks to some quirks on few mechs)

Edited by lazytopaz, 27 April 2017 - 04:50 AM.

[Storyteller]

Yes, it's complex.
Yes, I have to click a lot.
And no, I won't be cbills billionare after this.

But I still like it. So bring it to the live servers, PGI! Fast! Now! Do it! :-D

[AngrySpartan]

CadoAzazel, on 27 April 2017 - 04:37 AM, said:

Dear Willian Warriors

YES WE DO

Its much better than what we currently have and gets rid of requiring 3 mechs to master 1.

Go look at the polls more people want it as is even though its bad than to put up with the current crap any longer.

Dear White Knights,

Please, visit PTS feedback subforum and count how many topics are saying that skill tree is ok/semi-ok and how many topics says the opposite.

Please, spend a minute of your time and tell us, Villain Warriors, what does the new skill tree offers to compensate for:
1. Ruined mech balance
2. Alienated core and new players
3. Bleeding eyes and a headacke every time we see the hexagon mess called 'UI'

Please, have a look at Alistair's Winter topic Do we have a consensus? from previous PTS and check the polls yourself.

I'm getting tired of repeating this today, but still: change for a sake of change is not an option, especially if it is a change in a wrong and plain bad direction. New Skill tree does nothing (except the rule of three removal) to make the game better and does a lot to make it much worse.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 27 April 2017 - 05:16 AM.

[Zeoraimer]

Positives
========
I like that we are getting a new skill tree, I am not afraid of change, and look forward to something fresh, and hopefully more in depth and meaningful customisations.

I like that PGI are taking into account retaining our time and effort investment in to leveling our mechs and grinding our CBills.

Criticisms
========
I think we are going to have to accept, this won't be perfect on days one. Some mechs will be buffed, some will be nerfed. Let just hope PGI reacts quickly to re-balancing. We need to launch the skill tree aspect of this very soon, so that changes can be made before civil war drops.

I would rather see CBIll refunds rather than GSP, or at least offer the choice, or a choice with combinations of the 2. Right now, I will NOT have enough cbills to use up the HXP. And if I use the GSP, I'll have mostly worthless HXP sitting around.

Additionally, with the thousands of GSP refunded, I am not going to need to play any future mechs to gain mastery over them. Surely that will affect the amount of people playing - we have a low enough player population already that we might as well not have a Match Maker.

[KrocodockleTheBooBoxLoader-GetIn]

I really like the progress pgi has made with this thing. I'm ready to support it for full go and hang around as they tweak it in months to come

[pacifica812]

I can't quite understand why cancel modules, or replace the skill tree for that matter???

Leave modules, upgrade existing skill tree by replacing some of the skills, buff the XP necessary to unlock it, thus increase the grind, and cancel the rule of three...

Now, ain't that simple or what


Leave the quirks, continue your "holy path to sacred balance" (BTW if you can't find it in yourself, it is futile to look for it elsewhere) and let us be on our way... the revamped skill tree isn't gonna balance the game.

All the quirks in the world can't balance something that is "un-balanced" out of the box. You can't balance more skilled pilots versus less skilled, as you can't balance a design with "bad" hit-boxes versus a design with "good" ones.

I know I can't make you change your mind, I just hope you can see that what you are trying to accomplish is a never ending story, fundamentally...

Edited by pacifica812, 27 April 2017 - 05:58 AM.

[AngrySpartan]

pacifica812, on 27 April 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

I can't quite understand why cancel modules, or replace the skill tree for that matter???

Leave modules, upgrade existing skill tree by replacing some of the skills, buff the XP necessary to unlock it, thus increase the grind, and cancel the rule of three...

Now, ain't that simple or what

Leave the quirks, continue your "holy path to sacred balance" (BTW if you can't find it in yourself, it is futile to look for it elsewhere) and let us be on our way...

That's some golden words. Since PGI is unable to do new skill tree properly, they'd better stay away from any massive changes in it.

[Skybirduk]

If I sell my Modules the day before the Skill Tree is patched, I will be 29.5 Million C-Bills better off than If I didn't. That adds up to quite a bit of new tech that I can purchase when the 3062 update is patched.

[BSK]

- Pestilence -, on 25 April 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Well s***, buy a second mouse. For me its a choice not not just "click".

If you want to get rid of all players who invest money into this game, then keep having this attitude.



Just to click all available options it took me 2 minutes and 52 secounds, without thinking about which nodes I need or want. Without a message telling me that I don't need an option for a weapon that I don't have. This means it would take me 14 hours and 20 minutes just to unlock everything without thinking. Take this times 5 for the time I need to tinker about my mechs and you have a whole week that I would have to invest to get my whole hangar of 300 mechs battle ready.
UNACCEPTABLE





This is the refund that I get. 40.000.000 . As you can clearly see, I have invested 1.000.000.000 into modules.
UNACCEPTABLE



You can compare the lower left corner with an actual ingame screenshot. I would be ripped off if this goes live. Why don't they create pre-saved templates and I just assign these to my mechs? I am NOT going to click 91 nodes for 300 mechs, and if I don't then I won't play this game anymore ..

[ThiefofAlways]

Unless I am mistaken, you can convert GSP back into C-bills at 1 GSP for 45,000 C-bills. I didn't actually try it last night before I left the PST but meant to if this is true I would be very happy with the ledger.

Anyone want to confirm this for everyone or PGI put out a statement of clarification for us.

Edited by ThiefofAlways, 27 April 2017 - 06:26 AM.

[K19]

Well well.

Not bad but still work to do.

And needed a button to unlock an entire "skill tree" plz do not like so many clicks if not for needed. To the button a hint = Mouse right hand button - in the first Skill unlock all over the box with a text.

A note of little confusion or what you have done after 91 "NODE". I reread the patch notes but did not get there. After buying more SP I cannot record ??? Help ??

More work plz .. Force to do what's good for the game.

[Schutt und Asche]

Just for example: the BJ-1
I´m not able to reach the current AC2 rate of fire. Even with all the nodes you can´t compensate the massive quirk-nerf. That´s just one mech, i didn´t test more yet.

It cannot be that a pts-mech is not as good as before (even there it was a niche-mech)!
PGI is on the best way to lose the rest of the playerbase #mightbeworkingasintended

Srry 4 my bad english