549 replies to this topic

[Daemon04]

After taking a look at the ledger i need a little more info on my ledger.
ive gotten a calculated 400+ mil. cbills out of the various amounts of mech and weapon modules but somehow it is not being accounted for in there. it just shows me a total cbill refund of 20 mil. cbills. just alone the 17 radar deprivation modules total to 102 million cbills.

is there something im missing? is that a bug ive discovered?
im not sure whats happening atm.

Edited by Daemon04, 25 April 2017 - 01:44 PM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

For all it's worth,

Dear PGI,

Let me break it down for people who seem to defend the proposed refund system.

People are just saying that PGI should do refunds in the same currency that people first spent on purchasing whatever in game.

I don't understand how that's a wildly unfair or mindblowing concept.

GXP = HXP

Cbills = Cbills

MC = MC

Inventing a new currency for refunds will never truly capture people's decision-making or tradeoffs at the time of purchase. Your proposed system is like if you went to a store to get a refund for something that they recalled but that you bought in USD and they offered you some currency that they made up.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 25 April 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[suffocater]

My short opinion to the "new" system:

PRO:
-the entire refund system now respresents what we had before. Good work on that point.

CON:
-I still don't get the mech out of it that I had before
-I still have to take nodes that I dont need or want
-Boating a single weapontype is even more the way to go now, especially if you want to be as tanky as your targets. Meaning: survival skilltree is still the first you max out, than you see what you have left.

Not impressed, but not as disgusted as the last time.

[Alistair Winter]

Looks like most of the criticism I had after the previous PTS is still going to be valid after this next PTS. Some small improvements, nothing major. It's not really going the right direction, as far as I'm concerned. As expected, I won't be participating in this PTS.

Tried to be constructive, it didn't work. I'm out.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 25 April 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Rampage, on 25 April 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

I agree but the problem is if they give everyone all the benefits of the ST and the previously existing quirks for a month or two and then try to take the quirks away the "Why you NERF my Mech!!!" outrage will be deafening. It may be better to take them away now and then give them back where needed to avoid the mob reaction. No one, will ever complain about getting quirks added back.

Deafening? If the nerfing of nearly every mech I own goes forward past the PTS and goes live my outrage won't be deafening. Merely totally and completely silent.

I've spent my "outrage" trying to explain to PGI that nerffing already bad mechs will NOT encourage balance or improve player choice as they have asserted as two of their skills tree goals to be, but rather that this will do the opposite and guarantee that more than half tbe mechs in this game will be turned to crap. And yet that is what they appear to be set on doing.

[Deathlike]

Bud Crue, on 25 April 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Deafening? If the nerfing of nearly every mech I own goes forward past the PTS and goes live my outrage won't be deafening. Merely totally and completely silent.

I've spent my "outrage" trying to explain to PGI that nerffing already bad mechs will NOT encourage balance or improve player choice as they have asserted as two of their skills tree goals to be, but rather that this will do the opposite and guarantee that more than half tbe mechs in this game will be turned to crap. And yet that is what they appear to be set on doing.

All Clan mechs that didn't have any real quirks in the first place are getting an indirect buff. Something like the Summoner or Mist Lynx or even Vindicator that is heavily quirked previously chances are will get screwed over.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 April 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

InnerSphereNews, on 25 April 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

Missile Bay Doors
• Damage Reduction when closed increased to 20% (from 10%).


This change impacts the following 'Mechs:
• Archer


• Catapult


• Kintaro
• Stalker





[color="#3073f3"]Missile Bay Doors Design Notes: While this mechanic is only utilized for the above 'Mechs we wanted to make the benefit of the mechanic a bit more substantial for those pilots who take the time to manage the open/closed states of their Missile Doors.[/color]

Time to restore the Centurion's beautiful missile doors! DO IT!

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 25 April 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[Ken Harkin]

I'm not taking part in the PTS server. I simply do not have the time to futz around with test iteration after test iteration. When I can steal away some time to play I intent to play. I have been playing MWO since Dec 2014 and even built a new machine in a large part to better enjoy this game. I have put a fair amount of real dollars into this, not as much as some but more than others. The time I get to enjoy it is limited and I have no intention of spending it futility playing around in the PTS server.

I just want to know if we are ever going to fish or are we going to sit and cut bait indefinitely on the dock. I want something new; I want the skill tree system up and running. As an engineer I also appreciate the adage "there comes a time in every project where you have to shoot the engineers and begin production." Seriously, tweeks can go on FOREVER.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Daemon04, on 25 April 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

After taking a look at the ledger i need a little more info on my ledger.
ive gotten a calculated 400+ mil. cbills out of the various amounts of mech and weapon modules but somehow it is not being accounted for in there. it just shows me a total cbill refund of 20 mil. cbills. just alone the 17 radar deprivation modules total to 102 million cbills.

is there something im missing? is that a bug ive discovered?
im not sure whats happening atm.

You didn't read the parts about the two different module refunds

Quote

REFUND FROM MODULES (GSP)
This is the total refund in General Skill Points (GSP) you are receiving for all of the Owned (Non-Consumable) Modules in your Inventory as of April 19th 2017 (if they were acquired prior to February 8th 2017). Modules acquired after that date are being refunded to you in full in the form of C-Bills.

The amount of GSP you receive for your Owned Modules is determined by the Total Purchase Value of all your Owned Modules divided by 45,000 (the C-Bill cost of a Skill Point). For example, a total Purchase Value for all your Owned Modules of 50,000,000 C-Bills would result in you receiving 1,112 General Skill Points (the final value is rounded to to the nearest decimal).
These General Skill Points can be consumed to unlock Skill Nodes for any 'Mech you wish without needing to spend the usual 45,000 C-Bill and 800 XP cost associated with purchasing a standard Skill Point directly. As a result, the Module > GSP refund process provides you with a great deal of free XP integrated into the GSP conversion. In the above example, 889,600 free XP has essentially been provided to the player in the form of their 1,112 GSP.

Quote

REFUND FROM MODULES (CB)
This is the total refund in C-Bills you are receiving for all of the Owned (Non-Consumable) Modules in your Inventory as of April 19th 2017 (if they were acquired after February 8th 2017).

These Modules are being refunded as C-Bills due to our original intent to provide full C-Bill refunds for all Owned Modules. We understand some players made Module purchasing decisions based on that original statement, so all purchases made after that statement are being refunded as C-Bills.

This is a 1:1 refund of the original C-Bill purchase value of your Owned Modules acquired after February 8th 2017! If applicable you'll also receive purchase value C-Bill 'refunds' for any Owned Modules you acquired without purchase, such as through special events.

What you get back depends on when they were purchased.

[Swagpanda89]

Looks very good!

[Bud Crue]

Deathlike, on 25 April 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

All Clan mechs that didn't have any real quirks in the first place are getting an indirect buff. Something like the Summoner or Mist Lynx or even Vindicator that is heavily quirked previously chances are will get screwed over.

Yes. That is what appears obvious and apparent to you and I and several others. How is it that PGI is oblivious to such mathematical certainty? How can they be unaware that they are trashing their own balance efforts of the last two years? If they aren't oblivious and this is part of some well thought out plan, I'll be damned if I can even hypothesize as to what that plan might be.

[Delta1262 Scorch]

Uhhh well, i'm trying to be as serious and keep to the facts as i can, but still...is this the changes fo which release was holded for yet another month?

-You're saying that you're trying to specialise mechs in some directions through the skill trees, more give and take and all of that, less useless choices and unneeded skill nodes in the skill trees?
Aaaaand, all just as it was, oh wait, now we have even more spreaded skill nodes that we're useful. Now if you're maxing Survival in the most economic way - that's 32 nodes, give to that speed tweak that you're gonna need because of the changes to the engines - 21 more in the fastest way, atleast cooling from the Operations tree? - 20 more. And all that's left are 18 nodes, with which you can't even max something from the weapon tree, what to say about mech specialisations...
In the end what lies in the system like that? To make mechs looks like some invalids, and give player little of a choice to make at least some of their stats to normal state? Previous skill tree was much more balanced and gave some real possibilities in the mech development, not just illusions of them, hidden behind the pretty words.

-What about the refund changes, whell i don't even know...first you're saying about the full refund of the modules, i'm looking forvard to get those 90kk+ of cbills, and to spare it on whatever i prefer. Now with those beautiful changes, i see that i'm gonna get accurately 0 C-bills for them, instead - 2k of GSP, without even a choise, i don't even have so many mechs to spend all ofthose. So those who spend C-bills for the modules gonna get Skill points instead, and also alot of the clear GXP, which must go where, if you already have thousands of GSP? And there is also that Historical EXP, that's gonna remain unused on the mechs. Adding to all of that - the idea of changes that you're not gonna need 3 variants of each mech to get in into elite, an we're gonna get even more drastic difference between those numbers of GSkillPoints, GXP, and HXP and mechs on what you can adequately spend them. Great job...
So what about those who want to see at least some of those money fairly invested into the modules? Should they sell those modules now in the half of a price before the update?

[MovinTarget]

Cathy, on 25 April 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

*sighs*

Leave the current quirks alone until this is live, then reduce those needed to be reduced, over the next month or three.

This skill tree is not going to help IS-Clan Balance, if you don't see that, then there really is no hope

I am assuming this is some sort of baselining... I hope it is... that means if you want to prove that IS needs those quirks still WE NEED EVERYONE TO GET ON THE PTS AND TRY IT OUT INSTEAD OF WHINING (not you specifically Cathy) because theorycrafting is not proof...

[Daemon04]

Jay Leon Hart, on 25 April 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

You didn't read the parts about the two different module refunds

What you get back depends on when they were purchased.

first it was youre going to get ALL the cbills refunded that youve spend on modules.
and now its just gsp? wth.
i shouldve gotten a full set of 400+ mil. cbills. now its just being refunded in form of plain and simple gsp. ive spent lots of time in these modules and the cbill grind and just getting gsp out of it is like a slap in the face.

im not that long into this and i already feel this is going to turn into surprise butt###.

[BSK]

- Pestilence -, on 25 April 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

"Too many clicks" seriously ? What an argument is that.

Let me repeat the calculation I made for last test session.

I have 300 mechs. Each of these mechs then have 91 nodes that I have to click after this comes live. And of course I have to click a confirm button. We are speaking of 27.300 clicks which become 54.600 if I also have to click the confirm button. If those 54.600 clicks could be managed in 1 secound each then we are speaking of 910 minutes or more than 15 hours that I have to invest into getting my hangar combat ready.

AND YOU ASK WHAT AN ARGUMENT TOO MANY CLICKS ARE?

[Revener]

Seriously PGI

WE DO NOT WANT THIS!

[Navid A1]

I customize and change my builds quite often, and I have tons upon tons of weapon modules.

At this moment I customize freely.
I paid full cbill price for every weapon module I can put on a said mech and I have them at hand every time I change a build ( I have about 5-10 weapon modules on stand by for every mech)

After the train wreck you call the new skill tree, every time I customize my mech its gonna cost me upwards of 8000 XP... and it its ***** recurring.... each and every time.

Thank you for killing off customization for me. You won't even give me back the price of those modules in Cbills or XP.



Also, btw... you did not change anything in that tree... its got the same node layout as before... and Heat dissipation is still nerfed compared to now (even with all of its nodes)

Edited by Navid A1, 25 April 2017 - 02:17 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Reoccurring issue...the VND-1X... the MG quirk present in the live servers keeps getting omitted from the PTS version.

Revener, on 25 April 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Seriously PGI

WE DO NOT WANT THIS!

I and a lot of others...who actually do still spend a lot of money on the game....DO WANT THIS

[Rogue Jedi]

looking pretty good.
looking through this you still have to take "cooldown" (rate of fire) to get at "heat gen" (heat reduction) this means if the build is running hot it is pointless going for heat gen because the increased rate of fire (if chain firing) nulifies the heat reduction.

This is literaly the only issue where getting to a skill you want can render the skill you are after functionaly useless.
idealy it should be possible to get heat reduction seporately from rate of fire so you can choose to invest points in making the weapons less likely to cause an overheat.

[Colonel ONeill]