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If You Want To Alienate The Core Player Base This Is A Great Finishing Move.


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#141 Ovion

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 10:54 AM

View PostGrus, on 22 May 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

I'm starting to think these guys that are having the biggest issues with the skill tree are the same ones that never log into a TS/vent/Discord to talk to other people. Because it took me and one other person playing around in it for 15 minute to get it figured out... it's too easy people.
Yeah, 80-90% of the problems people have I see are of their own doing.

Either from not reading the patch notes / documentation, and/or or not bothering to take 10 minutes to go over the skill tree.

Then seem to think they're hard done by when they willfully ignore the instructions....

#142 DrFoul

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:47 AM

Yep,

All my good builds are now struggling especially as most of my mechs are fast close range with 2 weapon types (light/medium/heavy) - can't compete with single weapon type builds any more.

We also now have even more powerful LRM boats as they can level up the missile tree only and you get all the things you want as you go.
If you want to put anything on your mech to combat LRMs then you compromise speed/armour or your own weapons as you have to build lots of redundant sections of trees.
As a result we're seeing the rise of the Assualt Chickens, either they can't go out or they get stuffed by 3 or 4 boats or they are boats themselves and stay at the back while the teams lighter mechs get stuffed.

The only mech I have that seems to be ok is a laser vomit where I can max lasers/speed and armour only.

I'm seriously thinking of having a month or two off while it gets fixed after 2 years of near daily play.

Just make the trees simple and linear with a sensible limit so you have to spread stuff around.

thoughts?

#143 ClanBondsman

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:37 PM

View PostOvion, on 21 May 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

It's not an assumption.
Lots of new players coming in.

A lot of the people bitching will come back to it in a day or two I'd bet.

And I'm not making assumptions - I'm looking at ACTUAL numbers.
http://steamcharts.com/app/342200#7d

Additionally, I don't know what your local area is like / what time you're playing in, or what servers you have selected but in the last few days me and my group have been getting pug and group matches almost as soon as wee hit search.


I think your nuts.. I was a new player.. I loved the game until new skill tree.. I find it very confusing.. I have no clue what im doing.. ive had several people try to help me on discord and in game .. but the simple facts are that mechs handle like crap now with new skill tree compared to what they played like before this skill tree.
I will not be returning to the game as long as current skill tree is in play.
Yeah lets see how those charts of yours look there Ovion in the next month after this skill tree, I will bet you that they take a very sharp plummet.

Summary for the slow minded.. I tried it.. I didn't like it.. won't be playing until they revert to old system or put in place a far better system that is new player friendly and doesn't require you to plot out a bunch of crazy crap.
Old system was just fine and easy to understand for new players.
I can give a rats A** about having to purchase 3 of the same mech's to master.. it just means I got more time in the cockpit to actually you know learn the mech.
I tried playing with new skill tree but the mech's are all screwed up now and do not perform nearly as good as they did before skill tree.
I am sure someone will post a nasty comment like Grus.. however this is not EVE and im not interested in playing EVE or I would be playing EVE not this game.. since this game is becoming overly complicated when it doesn't need to be.. I won't be playing this game anymore.
The only reason I am bothering to check the forums and post is that maybe developers may actually read the comments and realize they are driving away any potential new players like me who actually were having fun before the skill tree changes.

Edited by ClanBondsman, 22 May 2017 - 07:49 PM.


#144 Mechanised

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:55 AM

View PostOvion, on 18 May 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Honestly - that sounds like a you problem.

simply 'cant be bothered', when it's overall a better system if you just take 10-20 minutes to learn it.

I have 30-40 mechs I use regularly and 224 mechs total.
If you can't be bothered, that's on you not PGI - especially when Skill Tree has been on the cards for years, and clearly, blatantly signposted for 8 months.

Lol.. sure.. its not the 20 to 30 minutes.. its each mech.. you have your view.. i have mine.. i dont tell you you have nothing better to do in life so please dont tell me i cant be bothered.

#145 Mechanised

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:01 AM

View PostClanBondsman, on 22 May 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:


I think your nuts.. I was a new player.. I loved the game until new skill tree.. I find it very confusing.. I have no clue what im doing.. ive had several people try to help me on discord and in game .. but the simple facts are that mechs handle like crap now with new skill tree compared to what they played like before this skill tree.
I will not be returning to the game as long as current skill tree is in play.
Yeah lets see how those charts of yours look there Ovion in the next month after this skill tree, I will bet you that they take a very sharp plummet.

Summary for the slow minded.. I tried it.. I didn't like it.. won't be playing until they revert to old system or put in place a far better system that is new player friendly and doesn't require you to plot out a bunch of crazy crap.
Old system was just fine and easy to understand for new players.
I can give a rats A** about having to purchase 3 of the same mech's to master.. it just means I got more time in the cockpit to actually you know learn the mech.
I tried playing with new skill tree but the mech's are all screwed up now and do not perform nearly as good as they did before skill tree.
I am sure someone will post a nasty comment like Grus.. however this is not EVE and im not interested in playing EVE or I would be playing EVE not this game.. since this game is becoming overly complicated when it doesn't need to be.. I won't be playing this game anymore.
The only reason I am bothering to check the forums and post is that maybe developers may actually read the comments and realize they are driving away any potential new players like me who actually were having fun before the skill tree changes.



Its not the spinning up of three mechs..getting rid of that was good, especially for the new guys.. we were use to it.. but this unnecessarily over complicated approach isnt at all user friendly for new guys let alone some of the old guys.. Geek is good.. over geeking is completely unnecessary.

Edited by Mechanised, 23 May 2017 - 11:03 AM.


#146 Ovion

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 12:52 PM

View PostMechanised, on 23 May 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Lol.. sure.. its not the 20 to 30 minutes.. its each mech.. you have your view.. i have mine.. i dont tell you you have nothing better to do in life so please dont tell me i cant be bothered.
But that's what you said.
Taking a few minutes a mech to build them isn't hard.

You yourself said, you don't *want to*, that you have no inclination to bother skilling your mechs.
I mean, I took the time to read the notes, look over the tree, and now - most mechs it's a couple minutes before I drop the first time in it if its unskilled.
If it is, I don't have to do anything.
If I'm not dropping it it.. well, I don't care because it's not an immediate problem.

You're manufacturing your own outrage.

#147 Rothgar57

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:58 PM

I don't like the changes. Lights have been Nerfed so hard. Turning radius is so wide. Can't wait for battle tech.

#148 Ovion

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:58 PM

View PostRothgar57, on 23 May 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

I don't like the changes. Lights have been Nerfed so hard. Turning radius is so wide. Can't wait for battle tech.
What Skills have you tried?
What lights?
What playstyle and tactics do you use?

Because My locusts are fine, my Kitfox is still amazing, and even an unskilled Firestarter did well...
And my friends Raven is reportedly amazing, as are Wolfhounds and Panthers...
And Urbies are supposedly doing well...
And Javelins, while I haven't played mine yet seem to be playing fine and being persistent and effective nuisances

Maybe there's something that can help ay?

Edited by Ovion, 23 May 2017 - 05:59 PM.


#149 Rothgar57

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:22 AM

I play assassin style. Mostly locust 6sm pulse and Jenner oxides. I have chosen all mobility quirks. I find the turning radius much wider. The mechs are much more sluggish. Before the patch I could stay on mechs butts and kill them from behind. Now i find when i turn the radius is just wide enough for mechs to get an angle.

Compound this with lack of sesimic or radar dep.

if you have any tips i'm all ears.

#150 Ovion

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:18 AM

View PostRothgar57, on 24 May 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

I play assassin style. Mostly locust 6sm pulse and Jenner oxides. I have chosen all mobility quirks. I find the turning radius much wider. The mechs are much more sluggish. Before the patch I could stay on mechs butts and kill them from behind. Now i find when i turn the radius is just wide enough for mechs to get an angle.

Compound this with lack of sesimic or radar dep.

if you have any tips i'm all ears.
My 1E is using basically this: https://kitlaan.gitl...62019&s=Weapons

I've found that the turning is only ever so slightly worse, so after a little practice I could compensate, adjusting my arcs slightly.

I tend to not stay on things so much, as it gives the enemy chance to predict your path - try hitting a few times (2-3) then disengaging to return later, etc.

Remember, that while we are slightly more sluggish - it's a blanket issue. Some of it will just be learning the new patterns.

#151 ALEXANDER CARLYLE

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:37 AM

Why are you complaining? This is not the player's game its owned by PGI. All the mechs, changes, even the comments are owned by PGI or MS. When oh when will you read the user agreement? Read it. PGI can do whatever they want. Stop complaining, and play the game as its handed to you or go play something else. Just report bugs here.

BTW if PGI senses that they will lose players to BT then that will be postponed.... Please don't use that game as a threat. I would like to play that game sometime.

There is no sarcasm in this comment. It is all facts. Look them up.

I am here looking for solutions, not to complain.

Edited by ALEXANDER CARLYLE, 25 May 2017 - 10:40 AM.


#152 Kaethir

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 11:15 AM

View PostALEXANDER CARLYLE, on 25 May 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

BTW if PGI senses that they will lose players to BT then that will be postponed.... Please don't use that game as a threat. I would like to play that game sometime.

I'm immensely curious as to how you think PGI can postpone a game they are not developing...

#153 Grus

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:11 PM

View PostRothgar57, on 23 May 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

I don't like the changes. Lights have been Nerfed so hard. Turning radius is so wide. Can't wait for battle tech.
then speck out mobility and watch you fly!

#154 JD Whack

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:25 PM

I'm pretty excited by the new skill tree, I got to say. The old stuff was too simple and rough, and sort of gave the mechs a vibe of being subpar until fully mastered. A regular chore to level three of them up, especially if only one proved any real fun to play. The possibilities for individual custumization the new skilltree offers in comparison is really a boost for the better with an already good game.

Then - I'll have to agree with the majority of posters, somewhat. At least in that the skilltree as it is also constitutes a major nerf across the board. Even, as some has already said, to a point where it doesn't make sense retaining the pre-update loadout on a mech. Because it's too weak, all of a sudden. Or even no longer supported by quirks. In fact, while many of my 'mechs sorta feels the same playing, only slightly worse on overall performance, two no longer makes sense with current loadout or intended role. One of these, my ecm-griffin was my choise for faction-scouting as well as group playing. I'm not sure what to do with it now, and I'm not happy about it at all. Only one, my C4 catapult has gotten better on average due to faster torso movement and insanely increased jump-capabilities. It's not a mech I use outside freeplay because it's sort of crazy and unpredictable - only now, I'm not so sure any longer. It's not a substitute for the griffin, though.

So I can see why there's a lot of anguish going on in this threat. I'll say I wouldn't trade back. The nerf, while being a nerf and a real bugger at that, it's also a global nerf. Everyone is affected equally. Instead I hope PGI might tweak it a little, so values become reminiscent of pre-update, and even consistently makes for better-than-pre-update relevant specs if enough points is spent on specialization. Expand on the trees and give players more points to distribute (also for longevity in developing the mech which has suddenly become fun and rewarding as I progress through nodes with each battle), maybe consider not as interlocked a progression system so players can capitalize on the specialization aspect right away and be able to ramp up a given spec considerably at a corrorsponding cost.

On a side note to mention in regard to the money perspective, I play several other free to play games as well as MWO, including Clash of Clans and Magic Duels and I'm not what you'd consider a whale. In fact, part from CoC (where I have place a single purchase at the start of my game) I haven't spent anything other than time and electricity playing them. Not so with MWO. I'm still not a whale, far from it. But I continuously find myself wanting for MC's to get supplykeys or a hero mech or - more, and more so - cosmetics and cockpit items. Not many ways to get MC's without purchasing them, so. All in all, over these last six or seven months, I have spent more on this game than on any other one computergame I have bought, including it's DLCs if any.

#155 Valer

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 03:14 AM

My reaction to the new skill tree was :

"HOLY F****** **** WTF BBQ so MANY NODES WUT DO I CHOOSE OMFG ITS SO UGLY FFS WHY MY CLICKS DON'T CLICK THE INTERFACE IS SO UNRESPONSIVE SO MANY NUMBERS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH???!!!11!1!!1!"










It took me 20min to figure this out, now I can respec a mech in more or less 10min. That gave me the opportunity to revisit all my old mechs for the past week. The things is that new system ask the player to make compromises. For my Direwolf, I had to choose between maxing armor (just to gain 10 armor point), or put point into mobility for not being too vulnerable to those pesky lights.

Overall, I didn't felt that my usual mechs were underperforming since the update (I am a filthy clanner btw).

That's probably because the benefit of the skills aren't that game-changing, as before, it's just passive little percentage most of the time.The most important one being for me the "weapon heat reduction" nodes and "speed tweak"
That really depend of the mech I am piloting ; primarily Kitefoxes, Novas, Supernovas, Direwolfs, Warhawks (All very hot mechs Posted Image).

And yeah, definitely a good thing to be finnaly able to skill one mech without having to possess 3 variants !! I've despised this idea since day one like "WTF i must possess 3 variant and have only 4 mechbays" Posted Image.

It's not like having new weapons or game mechanics (that will come with the civil war update), the core gameplay loop still unchanged, same old 12v12 combats with the same Deathball and lemmings tactics (at least on quick play). I feel that the whinning contest on this thread is a bit out of proportion really.

Now I am glad my nova is now able to climb the HPG walls with the maxed jumpjet tree. Posted Image

Edited by Valer, 26 May 2017 - 03:35 AM.


#156 Its my first day

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 05:41 AM

Overall, I like it pretty well, personally. I do think some things were nerfed more than they should be, mainly mobility on some mechs (night gyr and KDK are like blimps) but I like the increased survivability and incremental gains a lot. I think a few things should be made more powerful--maybe a bonus if you get a certain number of different node types, like laser duration or range--but it just needs a bit of tweaking IMO and it'll be fine.

I definitely like it more than the grind before this, the amt of money and GXP needed to master and module a mech up was absurd.





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