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If You Want To Alienate The Core Player Base This Is A Great Finishing Move.


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#41 Shadowspawn42

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:14 PM

I have only been around for 9 months. However, watching ED, ED2.0, Skill Tree, and Skill Tree 2.0...it just seems like all their ideas are contrary to my play styles. I though ED was bad, but this is even worse!

The skill tree is needlessly complex and weighed down with useless crap to get what you want.

Mechs are getting nerfed heavily in the area of performance. You can not recreate current Mech capabilities under the new system.

The refund system is a joke. If you are going to eliminate modules, then give full refunds for those modules.

I am just glad that after ED2.0 I stopped spending any real $$$s on this game. As soon as they implement this change, I am done with MWO.

The OP hit the nail on the head....these changes show a completely lack of concern for their player base. Gotta raise the TTK no matter how many people we upset along the way.

#42 AngrySpartan

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:22 PM

View PostShadowspawn42, on 26 April 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

I have only been around for 9 months. However, watching ED, ED2.0, Skill Tree, and Skill Tree 2.0...it just seems like all their ideas are contrary to my play styles. I though ED was bad, but this is even worse!

The skill tree is needlessly complex and weighed down with useless crap to get what you want.

Mechs are getting nerfed heavily in the area of performance. You can not recreate current Mech capabilities under the new system.

The refund system is a joke. If you are going to eliminate modules, then give full refunds for those modules.

I am just glad that after ED2.0 I stopped spending any real $$$s on this game. As soon as they implement this change, I am done with MWO.

The OP hit the nail on the head....these changes show a completely lack of concern for their player base. Gotta raise the TTK no matter how many people we upset along the way.

That's what i call 'PGI Power!' They take good ideas and execute them so bad, that even their strongest supporters starts to feel bad about those ideas!

PS. Energy Draw in it's original state was a brilliant solution to pinpoint laser meta and wonderfull alternative for ghost heat. And than PGI took this idea (after laservom meta was already replaced by dakka) and...well,you know the rest.
PPS. You've missed Information warfare PTS before ED...don't worry if you've never heard of it, it was the same result as with ED.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 26 April 2017 - 03:31 PM.


#43 oldradagast

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:32 PM

View PostScynonymz, on 25 April 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

I literally just logged into the forum to write this post. I'm glad someone beat me to it. But I seriously feel this move is just adding a new layer of balance issues as well as alienating not only existing players, but new players as well.


It's stupidity on a staggering level from a game company that, quite frankly, has never really "gotten it" or put forth the time and effort they should in their products.

In what world does it make sense to "change everything" for no good reason, and replace simple, logical things with: tangled webs of confusion, false choices, increased grind, and respec costs in a game that lives and dies by the ability for players to easily play with new, customized mech builds?

There isn't a single aspect of this new system, from the skill maze itself, to the respec costs, the removal of needed quirks, and the mobility nerf / lockdown that isn't going to cause major balance issues and add another layer of complexity, grind, and frustration into a niche game that is already dependent upon a dwindling number of players to survive.

Not a single player will return to the game because they now have 91 shades of grind to play with in the skill maze, but I guarantee you some players will be lost, and new players - what few of them still show up - will be only further discouraged by this additional level of grind and illogical complexity.

#44 oldradagast

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:37 PM

View PostRuar, on 26 April 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:


Quirks are a work in progress and will be changed in the coming months. I just can't see anyway for them to fix quirks without having a viable skill tree first. The tree will be the core of balancing with quirks used to shore up weak areas individually.


With all due respect, I have zero faith in PGI's ability to do anything that isn't in the current patch being downloaded right at the moment. The whole "wreck game balance and sort it out later" with PGI really means, "wreck game balance, take a few months off, nerf a few under-performing mechs, and then fix the problem by granting all IS mechs +5 armor to the left leg. Because data."

Whatever they wreck now will stay wrecked for months, if not forever, unless the dartboard of balance just happens to bless some lucky, underpowered trash mech with new quirks. Based on PGI's track record, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited by oldradagast, 26 April 2017 - 03:38 PM.


#45 Anubis Ka

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:51 PM

In what world does it make sense to grind completely opposite and unrelated things to get to the skill you want to put points in?


How hard is it to realize that your player base, (a paying one) does not like this system you are trying to implement?

#46 Flak Kannon

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:59 PM

View PostRuar, on 26 April 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:


Quirks are a work in progress and will be changed in the coming months. I just can't see anyway for them to fix quirks without having a viable skill tree first. The tree will be the core of balancing with quirks used to shore up weak areas individually.



Oh my god.

I have done this before dude.

I was 100% innersphere when Clans came out. I remember the Clan V Innersphere tests they ran. I was the sacraficial lamb for the g0d d$ammed data mining before.. all the while my paid Premium Time was running as I was their Beta test moneky.

So, now My Inner Sphere Lights will have to go through this again, As I get crushed by Clan mechs again?



They have messed up the values to anyone who actually plays innersphere light mechs alot.


If you dont spend most of your time in innersphere lights, you have no right to say we need to be patient as we get ground pounded again.


I for one am, after looking at the data, seem to agree my Com 3A is going to not preformed, not matter HOW I spec it with 91 points, like it did before.


That's called a NERF, and yes, if they fix it later, fine, but in the mean time.. I just bend over and take it?

I have almost 300 mech bays. Ive run Premium Time for 4 years. I have more time than 98-99 % of all of you in the drivers seat of mechs in MWO.


I don't want to be patient.


I will not Enjoi

Edited by Flak Kannon, 26 April 2017 - 04:00 PM.


#47 Wyald Katt

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:08 PM

I just don't want filler nodes.

#48 Ruar

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:12 PM

View PostFlak Kannon, on 26 April 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:



Oh my god.

I have done this before dude.

I was 100% innersphere when Clans came out. I remember the Clan V Innersphere tests they ran. I was the sacraficial lamb for the g0d d$ammed data mining before.. all the while my paid Premium Time was running as I was their Beta test moneky.

So, now My Inner Sphere Lights will have to go through this again, As I get crushed by Clan mechs again?



They have messed up the values to anyone who actually plays innersphere light mechs alot.


If you dont spend most of your time in innersphere lights, you have no right to say we need to be patient as we get ground pounded again.


I for one am, after looking at the data, seem to agree my Com 3A is going to not preformed, not matter HOW I spec it with 91 points, like it did before.


That's called a NERF, and yes, if they fix it later, fine, but in the mean time.. I just bend over and take it?

I have almost 300 mech bays. Ive run Premium Time for 4 years. I have more time than 98-99 % of all of you in the drivers seat of mechs in MWO.


I don't want to be patient.


I will not Enjoi


No one will be as strong after the skill tree goes live. Everyone is getting a nerf some way or another because the skill nodes don't all equal to what we had previously in some areas.

#49 Ruar

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:21 PM

View PostSource Mystic, on 26 April 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

Please read the signature that is posted with every post that is how I feel do not replace a system unless it is a improvement
And do not even think about replacing a system untill core mechanics like hit registration, and constant disconnects. Third stop trying to balance weapons on people's complaints. Instead make a system that self governs itself. I will explain balence for builds . As in this build is the counter to that build . Each build would have a strength against one and a weakness against another kind of build . Your success or failure would be weather you coordinated with you team and attacted targets that you were strong against. While avoiding targets you are weak against .


Most of what you are saying has been tried in WoT and it doesn't work. That game has worse balance than this one.

#50 Aysnorelax

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:01 PM

This update just proves how out of touch PIG is. They are solving grinding for cbills with grinding for XP.

#51 Naaaaak

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:19 PM

View PostDee Eight, on 26 April 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

The messy tree as you call it, gives benefits that make for a more well rounded mech.


Dee Eight: 0.82 W/L Ratio. 0.85 K/D Ratio. Plays like an empty bar tier 5, but 3436 posts to tell us about "balance" and "benefits".

Very little about this game is about "well-rounded" mechs. You pick a role or a playstyle and you min/max and specialize in it and own it. Making players waste 20 skill points to get the 5 they need is not a benefit. The entire "messy tree" prevents reasoning and takes forever to figure out optimal spending.

The "messy web" needs to go. Little interconnected hexagons are not a clean way to reason or interface. Give me a flat list with levels 1 thru 3 or 1 thru 5 (depending on the skill) and make the later levels cost multiple skill points, like how every sane game does it. Let me skip the crap I'll never use and don't make me pay to respec once I've unlocked a node.

Edited by Naaaaak, 26 April 2017 - 11:43 PM.


#52 Myc

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:19 AM

Am I the only one that thinks this skill tree looks like it came out of Master of Orion 3? MOO2 was awesome and I played the **** out of it. I tried very hard to like MOO3, but I couldn't. I cannot stare at charts and grids for that much of my play time. I just can't. 90+ percent of my playtime outside of matches should be deciding what weapons to put where or working on my (totally badass) paint jobs.

I have probably dropped about $500 on this game back to and including the $60 I spent on my founder's pack. It has been my primary game that entire time, almost the only game I've played. I feel like I've got my money's worth; I've had a lot of fun. If this drops without major changes, and/or if I don't get my modules properly refunded, I am done. There have been a lot of good games released in the last few years. I can find something else to play.

I am also sad to say that if they go ahead with this and I am forced to quit, I will have spent a whole lot more money and will have spent less time on this game than I did on Mechwarrior 4. I really expected this game to be around longer. The lifelong fans like myself will pay to make it so; but I can't spend any more money or time on this game if this goes through.

#53 Wibbledtodeath

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:41 AM

Well damn it.

This IS an improvement on the current failed skill tree- I mean it is literally broken (convergence doesn't work) and meaninglessly shallow.

Refunds need a rethink, sure.
And nerfs to light mechs are not justified..
..nice to have a PTS to identify this.

But the rest isn't that bad. But if you cant tolerate any change- go, find another game that is not in constant dev. MW2 mercs, for all is graphical woes, still holds up in gameplay. The constant complaining/threats of pulling the plug and pending mechdoom will not be missed.

Edited by Wibbledtodeath, 27 April 2017 - 02:46 AM.


#54 Myc

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:41 AM

View PostNaaaaak, on 26 April 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:


Dee Eight: 0.82 W/L Ratio. 0.85 K/D Ratio. Plays like an empty bar tier 5, but 3436 posts to tell us about "balance" and "benefits".




Naaaaak, What does anyone's piloting skills have to do with this? Your comment is the equivalent of saying that a basketball coach shouldn't have input on a basketball game because he can't dunk over the team's power forward. That is just immature. If anyone should be staying out of the comments, it's the childish players.

#55 William Warriors

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:42 AM

We don't want this skill tree crap and PGI still want to force it down our throat.

Talk about a draconian system they are running.

Edited by William Warriors, 27 April 2017 - 02:42 AM.


#56 AngrySpartan

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 03:06 AM

View PostWibbledtodeath, on 27 April 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

Well damn it.

This IS an improvement on the current failed skill tree- I mean it is literally broken (convergence doesn't work) and meaninglessly shallow.

Refunds need a rethink, sure.
And nerfs to light mechs are not justified..
..nice to have a PTS to identify this.

But the rest isn't that bad. But if you cant tolerate any change- go, find another game that is not in constant dev. MW2 mercs, for all is graphical woes, still holds up in gameplay. The constant complaining/threats of pulling the plug and pending mechdoom will not be missed.

Current skills are bad or at least outdated, that's a fact. However they do not mess with the game balance, they do not alienate new and core players, they do not interfere with any other game balancing measures and they do not make your eyes bleed every time you look at them.

For whatever improvement new skill tree has (and I am still struggling to find any) it has twice many flaws.

As for the tolerance of changes, I'll just quote myself from another topic:

View PostAngrySpartan, on 26 April 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

To sum up: change for a sake of change is not an option, especially if that is a change to a wrong and plain bad direction. I'd rather prefer current skill tree.


#57 Naaaaak

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 03:56 AM

View PostMyc, on 27 April 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

What does anyone's piloting skills have to do with this?


I'm noticing a trend that players of below average skill with less game knowledge think the proposed skill tree is positive, while players who are actually good with more experience think the opposite. Whether PGI wants to listen to forum cheerleaders or actual players is up to them.

#58 Alexander of Macedon

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:13 AM

View PostRuar, on 26 April 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:


No one will be as strong after the skill tree goes live. Everyone is getting a nerf some way or another because the skill nodes don't all equal to what we had previously in some areas.

>concern<

Bud. The IS is getting nerfed to **** alongside the skill tree. It is a massive nerf in relative power for the IS. The skill tree is kinda **** itself, but it being used to excuse returning to total clam supremacy is moronic.

#59 Shadowspawn42

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:11 AM

View PostSource Mystic, on 27 April 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

I REALTY DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS .... WANT TO INCREASE TTK DOUBLE ARMOR AND AMMO. That is the simplest way do do that.

I suggested this before during ED discussions. Its a pretty simple concept that addresses their problem without significantly altering how the game plays.

#60 Myc

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 11:48 AM

View PostNaaaaak, on 27 April 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:


I'm noticing a trend that players of below average skill with less game knowledge think the proposed skill tree is positive, while players who are actually good with more experience think the opposite. Whether PGI wants to listen to forum cheerleaders or actual players is up to them.


Except there is a flaw in your logic. I am a dedicated fan with ****** stats. I play this game at 40 FPS, which is much better than the 20 FPS and super nintendo graphics I started the game with. I just got my first gaming mouse last year. These things make a difference. Excuses aside, I'm just not that good of a pilot. I will never be as good at hitting a target as some people. I will still drop call my team to victory with my tactics and map knowledge. My lack of raw skill does not make me less important to the game.

As for people giving positive feedback on this system, I don't know where that is coming from. I don't think it's tied to their gaming skill though; and that's off topic anyway.





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