187 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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This is an outright lie. Mechs require over 200 points to unlock all the possible skills. 91 is just the most you can use for any one particular configuration.

except 91 is the most you can use at one time.

why would I unlock 200 if I can only use 91?

if you do it right the first time you only need to use 91.

I dont need to unlock every single skill node on every single mech if I only ever intend to use the same 91 skill nodes.

what a god damn waste of skill points.

so yeah if youre going to be dumb and waste all your skill points doing that, then maybe you need that much GSP, but I would rather have the cbills.


But also what youre forgetting is that historic XP can be converted to SP as well. I have tens if not hundreds of thousands of historic XP just sitting on my mechs. So if I wanted to buy more than 91 skill nodes I could just use the historic XP. GSP is still useless to me.


Again you people dont seem to understand the way the system works.

You not only get 91 historic skill points for having the mech mastered. But you can convert historic XP into skill points as well. If you played a mech any decent amount of time youre already getting so many skill points you shouldnt ever need GSP.

GSP is a scam PGI came up with to get people to grind more cbills, buy more mechs, and buy more mech bays. Because thats the only way you can possibly spend all that excess GSP.

Edited by Khobai, 27 April 2017 - 05:49 PM.

[vandalhooch]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

I'm getting more, not less.

My time is worth far more than c-bills. So I don't get all my c-bills back? I get something more valuable in return. I get to buy new chassis and level them instantly without wasting my time suffering with a basic robot.

What exactly are you buying them with? I seriously doubt you are purchasing mech packs.

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I can't help it that I played the game intelligently by swapping modules while others did not. They enjoyed the luxury of having those modules and not having to swap them for all the time they used them, now they get half their money back, or turn it into fantastic SP which can save them time.

So, in the new system your mastered mechs get 91 MSP just like mine even though yours don't actually have the modules to fully advantage them like all of mine do. You didn't earn the C-bills to get the module bonus on every mech but you're being given it anyway. Would you be okay with PGI only giving you 76 MSP for each mech without modules and 91 for each one with modules?

GSP is not fantastic. It is completely and utterly worthless.

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I see no problem. Instead, I see clarity. I look at the numbers and what we have now is good.

I see what we have now and I'm willing to accept it. But, I'm going to take every opportunity to remind cheapskates like you that this is available due to the sacrifice of many and you were definitely not part of it.

Edited by vandalhooch, 27 April 2017 - 05:45 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Khobai, on 27 April 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

I cannot. And I already explained why. GSP is useless compensation to me.

All my mechs are already getting 91 historic skill points from being mastered. They dont need any extra GSP to reach mastered status. Its HSP thats going to give me the new equivalent of the old mods, not GSP. GSP is useless to me.

The only way I can possibly spend all that extra GSP is to buy 100+ more mechs. But if I have to grind out the cbills to buy 100+ more mechs, I also get enough XP as a byproduct of grinding cbills, to master those 100 mechs anyway, making having the GSP entirely pointless.

Theres also the 30,000 MC youd have to spend on mechbays to accomodate that many more mechs. Which is also ridiculous.

I swear you people cant think straight. This is a raw deal. Just give me my cbills.

So you can but you just feel or know you won't, just clarifying because you are making it seem like you are getting nothing, whereas you are just getting something that loses value or meaning beyond a certain point, like how everyone will be eventually anyway.

I made a point about having a sink related to this experience for this very reason (i think in this very thread), so you aren't the only one feeling like he is repeating himself at times.

Also I don't have your c-bills man, don't get ****** with me about it.

[Mister Blastman]

vandalhooch, on 27 April 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

What exactly are you buying them with? I seriously doubt you are purchasing mech packs.

I see what we have now and I'm willing to accept it. But, I'm going to take every opportunity to remind cheapskates like you that this is available due to the sacrifice of many and you were definitely not part of it.

LOL

Sacrifice?

I have played over 12,000 games since closed beta. Probably way more, as I was here in June of 2012, playing, before even my archived stats go back to.

I bought a founders' pack for sixty bucks, won Heavy vs. the World and earned 5k in MC, and have been milking that for every drop, ever since, to buy mechbays. I probably own 80 or 90 chassis and bought them all with c-bills. What can I say? I'm prudent with my money.

I paid into the game, I supported the devs, I'm hardly a cheapskate freeloader. I just happen to have mountains of medical debt due to my wife's severe illness and my own constant doctor bills to contend with. So I've given the best that I can.

And my time.

And GSP saves me time. Lots of time. I have very little time to game these days due to working two jobs. So this is perfect.

[Heffay]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 April 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

What part of "value is subjective" do you not understand? Those numbers change for each person because not everyone values the same things.

Truth isn't subjective. You are getting more value out of this proposal that you currently have in your account. Full stop. End of story.

[Khobai]

Ok then just give us the option to sell GSP for 45k each

That way people who want the GSP can keep it. And people who dont want it can sell it for full 100% refund on their modules.

You can choose to sell all, part, or none of the GSP that way. And no one feels cheated by not getting a 100% refund on cbills.

That seems fair for everyone.

Edited by Khobai, 27 April 2017 - 06:30 PM.

[Druarc]

Try it with a leased car as that's closer to what this is.

[Heffay]

Khobai, on 27 April 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

Ok then just give us the option to sell GSP for 15k each

That way people who want the GSP can keep it. And people who dont want it can sell it for full 100% refund on their modules.

I am 100% behind this proposal. For only 6000, you should be able to sell 1 GSP for 15k.

[Khobai]

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I am 100% behind this proposal. For only 6000, you should be able to sell 1 GSP for 15k.

why are you so against people getting back the cbills they rightfully earned?

its like youre jealous that some of us have hundreds of millions of cbills locked up in modules and youre just out to try and screw us because youre cbill poor

!@#$ing plebians ruin everything.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Heffay, on 27 April 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Truth isn't subjective.

Value is.

[Heffay]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 April 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

Value is.

You are getting more value out of the new system than you currently put in.

This is not debatable.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Heffay, on 27 April 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

This is not debatable.

It is debatable, because value is subjective. Me getting shitloads of GSP that I won't really use is not of the same value as modules that I have on all my mechs or c-bills in my bank to spend on equipment.

[Khobai]

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You are getting more value out of the new system than you currently put in.

This is not debatable.

if that was even remotely true, then why are so many people saying theyre NOT getting more value out than they put in? if everyone was getting more value out than they put in, no one would be pissed off and we wouldnt be arguing about in the first plae.

the fact you think that either means 1) youre not too smart, or 2) you deliberately want to see other people get screwed over. I hope its #2.

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It is debatable, because value is subjective. Me getting shitloads of GSP that I won't really use is not of the same value as modules that I have on all my mechs or c-bills in my bank to spend on equipment.

exactly its entirely subjective.

but the way to make everyone happy is just to let us sell GSP for 45,000 cbills each. then everyone gets at least the same value out of it that they put in.

that way the people that want the GSP can keep it and the people that dont want it can sell it for a full refund on their modules. its win win.

Edited by Khobai, 27 April 2017 - 06:30 PM.

[vandalhooch]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

LOL

Sacrifice?

I'm giving up hundreds of millions of C-bills in modules through selling them back. My time I spent earning those C-bills have lost all usable value. Your hundreds of millions of C-bills in mechs (your game hours) will remain usable to you after the update. I'm sacrificing some of my earned resources and you aren't.

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I have played over 12,000 games since closed beta. Probably way more, as I was here in June of 2012, playing, before even my archived stats go back to.

I've got 15,000 and none in the archive. What's your point?

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I bought a founders' pack for sixty bucks, won Heavy vs. the World and earned 5k in MC, and have been milking that for every drop, ever since, to buy mechbays. I probably own 80 or 90 chassis and bought them all with c-bills. What can I say? I'm prudent with my money.

I paid into the game, I supported the devs, I'm hardly a cheapskate freeloader. I just happen to have mountains of medical debt due to my wife's severe illness and my own constant doctor bills to contend with. So I've given the best that I can.

To clarify, when I say 'cheapskate,' I'm referring to someone who spends their C-bills on new mechs instead of modules for their old mechs. I make no judgments about the amount of real money that any player puts into the game. 1 - It's none of my business and 2 - it should be completely irrelevant to the mechanics of how the game works.

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And my time.

And GSP saves me time. Lots of time. I have very little time to game these days due to working two jobs. So this is perfect.

My response to you was based on your hypothetically being someone who spent all their C-bills on modules for all of their mechs. You claimed that now that hypothetical person is freed from having to grind out skill points on all future mechs thanks to all the GSP. The problem is that that hypothetical pilot doesn't have any C-bills to purchase those mechs as all of their invested C-bills are in the form of GSP, which can't be spent buying new mechs.

Heffay, on 27 April 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

You are getting more value out of the new system than you currently put in.

This is not debatable.

I'm reminded of an image of Bush II standing on an aircraft carrier with a huge banner behind his head . . .

Some people never learn.

Edited by vandalhooch, 27 April 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[Heffay]

Khobai, on 27 April 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

if that was even remotely true, then why are so many people saying theyre NOT getting more value out than they put in? if everyone was getting more value out than they put in, no one would be pissed off and we wouldnt be arguing about in the first plae.

the fact you think that either means 1) youre not too smart, or 2) you deliberately want to see other people get screwed over. I hope its #2.



exactly its entirely subjective.

but the way to make everyone happy is just to let us sell GSP for 15,000 cbills each. then everyone gets at least the same value out of it that they put in.

that way the people that want the GSP can keep it and the people that dont want it can sell it for a full refund on their modules. its win win.

Yeah, there are 9/11 Truthers out there too. Doesn't make their position worth considering.

[Mister Blastman]

vandalhooch, on 27 April 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

My response to you was based on your hypothetically being someone who spent all their C-bills on modules for all of their mechs. You claimed that now that hypothetical person is freed from having to grind out skill points on all future mechs thanks to all the GSP. The problem is that that hypothetical pilot doesn't have any C-bills to purchase those mechs as all of their invested C-bills are in the form of GSP, which can't be spent buying new mechs.

It's not my fault they weren't prudent with their c-bills. I have 180 million in the bank which is plenty. If someone was silly enough to spend every dime on modules, well, that's their own issue. They can sell their modules and get a chunk of dough back, while leaving the rest for GSP.

The skill tree is a paradigm shift. It changes how the economy works due to how it integrates with the overarching scheme. Sure, I don't want folks to be hosed by this change, as we fought hard on Reddit to get to this point.

But I feel this point is finally a reasonable compromise--one that leaves us with more than we have even now, even if it isn't c-bills alone.

I don't think you can insist you get full price back for your modules, when the skill tree now allows for identical function to those modules as before, but for the cost of SP and a slot. The currency isn't as interchangeable as it once was. You got your use out of those modules--you don't want as much SP, sell for half, get some c-bills, get SP with the rest.

At some point we have to come to a middle ground, and as I see it, PGI has met us in the middle, and then some. That's a huge win. This is the most I think I've ever seen them bend to accommodate us, short of the full-on Transverse implosion, which this is not.


p.s. this is kind of fun and bizarre being on the "other" side for a change, however brief it may be.

pps. To quote Spock: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Edited by Mister Blastman, 27 April 2017 - 06:26 PM.

[Khobai]

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Yeah, there are 9/11 Truthers out there too. Doesn't make their position worth considering.

except truthers cant prove anything while Ive already proven im not getting more out of this than I put in

here watch this he explains why this system is !@#.
https://youtu.be/Fkb79m-WLB8

Edited by Khobai, 27 April 2017 - 06:35 PM.

[Heffay]

Khobai, on 27 April 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

except truthers cant prove anything while Ive already proven im not getting more out of this than I put in

The only proof you've given is that, given >>> 100% of what you put in, you aren't happy.

There are absolutely no scenarios where you will end up behind in this deal. None. Zilch. Nada.

[Khobai]

again watch the video he explains it so even you can understand the problem

[vandalhooch]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

It's not my fault they weren't prudent with their c-bills. I have 180 million in the bank which is plenty.

Do you even remember the histrionics that some of the "cheapskates" went into when we tried to explain that line of reasoning to them? The real kicker is that the first iteration treated both groups equally. "Cheapskates" had more mechs but more grind to finish each of them off while modulers (what a word) had fewer mechs but less grind ahead because they had already done more grinding in the first place.

That's the part that sticks in my throat. Those whiners are now trying to claim that this new iteration, that devalues my grinding but not theirs, is somehow treating us both the same.

BTW: I have 294 M C-bills before I even begin the sell back process. Honestly, I'm not hurting under the new system but that doesn't change the fact that I'm being treated differently from you.

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If someone was silly enough to spend every dime on modules, well, that's their own issue. They can sell their modules and get a chunk of dough back, while leaving the rest for GSP.

Not can, will have to if they want to retain any semblance of usability for their previous grinding time. Massive quantities of GSP are functionally useless. I think that's the part you and others seem to be missing. A moderate amount of GSP will be useful to the cheapskates but tens of thousands of GSP is useless without the requisite C-bills or mechs to go with them.

If the cheapskates were forced to sell back any of their C-bill purchased mechs that ever used a module but currently doesn't have a full set, then we could claim that both groups are being treated in a reasonably similar manner. Not a one of them has admitted that they would go for such a system, which shows how deeply in denial they all are.

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The skill tree is a paradigm shift. It changes how the economy works due to how it integrates with the overarching scheme. Sure, I don't want folks to be hosed by this change, as we fought hard on Reddit to get to this point.

But I feel this point is finally a reasonable compromise--one that leaves us with more than we have even now, even if it isn't c-bills alone.

I agree that it's time for the game to move forward. But a little recognition of or at least honest acknowledgment that that moving forward will require some players to sacrifice more than others would be nice.

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I don't think you can insist you get full price back for your modules, when the skill tree now allows for identical function to those modules as before, but for the cost of SP and a slot. The currency isn't as interchangeable as it once was. You got your use out of those modules--you don't want as much SP, sell for half, get some c-bills, get SP with the rest.

Then sell your C-bill purchased, module using mechs that don't have a full set. All your mastered mechs are getting an identical function (91 MSP) as a moduled mech even though you didn't buy modules for all of them. You got your use out of them but now it's time to pay for that extra functionality you are getting in the new system, so sell those certain mechs for 50%. That's a more fair system than asking me to sell my modules for 50% alone.

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At some point we have to come to a middle ground, and as I see it, PGI has met us in the middle, and then some. That's a huge win. This is the most I think I've ever seen them bend to accommodate us, short of the full-on Transverse implosion, which this is not.

This is not the middle. This only looks kind of like the middle because the whiners made such a huge fuss over the true middle that was offered in the first iteration (straight refund of all resources spent). That whining shifted the perception of where the middle should be. This isn't it but since they seem to be happy and I really want to move on, I'll accept this as close enough to the middle. Just don't claim that it really is the middle.

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p.s. this is kind of fun and bizarre being on the "other" side for a change, however brief it may be.

pps. To quote Spock: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

I don't think it was "the many." It's always hard to tell in an online forum.

I'd call it: "the wants of the loud outweigh the fairness for all."

Edited by vandalhooch, 27 April 2017 - 06:59 PM.