10 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

One of the stated goals of the skill tree was to encourage player customization. Many, many posts from all iterations of skill tree testing point out that having a tangled web of interlocking skills does not promote customization and that we need a linear tree instead.

To prove this feedback is accurate and needs to be implemented we only have to look at radar deprivation. I use this skill simply because it's one of the most used modules in the game so it's fair to assume it will be one of the most used skills when the tree goes live.

Radar deprivation costs a total of 17 points to unlock at 100%. Those 17 points also get you target decay, target info gathering, sensor range, and target retention. Every player who gets radar deprivation is going to get those same exact skills because we are all forced to take them.

That's not customization when everyone looks the same.

So how can this be fixed? Assuming they are hell bent on keeping the 1 node = 1 point cost then we'll need more radar dep nodes.

Change the cost for max radar dep to 12 nodes straight down.

That leaves five nodes free to pick whatever else we want in sensor. Have each of the branches go straight down and let players pick how they want to augment their sensors.

Even if everyone took radar dep there would still be customization when some people take range (scouts), some take info gathering (snipers), some get decay (LRM boats), and others go for seismic or ECM.

Lets say that ECM is another one determined to need to have a higher cost. Especially since folks with ECM don't really need radar dep. Then it's just a matter of having 8-10 nodes worth of ECM running down a line so people can go that route if they choose.


It's not that tough to take what is already present and turn it into a linear tree with enough costs to force people to make choices on which skills are worth the cost and which aren't. With the current system we aren't really customizing our mechs as much as we are just hitting our goals and accepting whatever crap the devs have determined we all have to pay in order to get what we want.

Trying to see if I can add a photo. Hopefully this will work.

Edited by Ruar, 26 April 2017 - 12:16 PM.

[Mycroft000]

There is no meaningful choices to be made under this system. This is my sensor tree(and will be on 90% of mechs I own):

Edited by mycroft000, 26 April 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[Ruar]

mycroft000, on 26 April 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

This is my sensor tree(and will be on 90% of mechs I own):

Yep. Now imagine that each one of those skills was it's own branch. They are one row across the top and you can go down any of them you like. The more in demand skills like ECM or Radar dep have 8-12 nodes while the others might only have one or two nodes each. Then you can take those 19 points and pick and choose the items you actually want instead of being forced to take the ones the devs demand you take.

I honestly can't think of any argument against a linear path other than the devs thought of this tangled system first and now they don't want to change because of stubbornness.

[Cy Mitchell]

Having a linear tree is not going to make things any more diverse. The same "mandatory" skills will be chosen by everyone. They will just bypass the lesser skills with the linear tree and then dump those extra skill points in survival or weapon skills.

If they go to a linear tree then skill points will have to be drastically reduced to prevent rampant power creep by everyone min-maxing the best skills. With the exception of weapon specific skills for each build and maybe jump jets on JJ capable Mechs every meta build will be identical.

I do not know that what we have is the best it can be. I personally would like to see less skill points. I do like the affect those "useless" skills have on my Mech. It is nice being able to go up a hill in Canyon in an Assault without coming to almost a complete stop. I also like the extra sensor range and stuff. But if I was not forced to chose them them I would have to ignore them just like everyone else to stay on a level playing field.

I am OK with the new Skill Tree as it is. I know that it will be refined for months after it is released. I would also be OK with the Skill Tree being removed from the game completely. As long as it is the same for everyone then I will adapt just fine.

[Doctor Dinosaur]

*puts finger into ears*LALALACAN'T HEART YOU![/PGI]

[Dee Eight]

I'm surprised nobody has caught onto the fact the seismic range is dropping 20% from where it is currently, to post a complaint about it. Three skill tree PTS runs now and I haven't seen a single post about it.

Edited by Dee Eight, 26 April 2017 - 04:15 PM.

[Hobbles v]

Radar Deprivation is going to be considerably weaker too since target Decay is a direct counter that pretty much everyone is forced to take

Edited by Hobbles v, 26 April 2017 - 04:31 PM.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Well if you are a heavy or an assault (some would argue all) you have to select almost the entire survivability tree.

There goes 25 odd choices just like that.

Whats the point of that tree at all then, might as well apply these to the default of all mechs and remove those skills as choices.

Edited by DrVoodooAUS, 26 April 2017 - 04:36 PM.

[Ruar]

DrVoodooAUS, on 26 April 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

Well if you are a heavy or an assault (some would argue all) you have to select almost the entire survivability tree.

There goes 25 odd choices just like that.

Whats the point of that tree at all then, might as well apply these to the default of all mechs and remove those skills as choices.

Because some people don't think they need the added armor internals so pick other options. Which is fine really. The problem is if you want a specific branch and not all the nodes. In order to go down a certain branch you have to pick up nodes you don't want because.... who knows. If they want to charge more for certain skills then they can make those skills cost more to complete as exampled in my above picture.

There is no need to tangle the nodes. None.

[Agent1190]

Look at the Agility and Mech operations trees - these are the current Basic and Elite skills. It takes 65 nodes to unlock these to bring your Mech back to the performance you enjoy on the Live servers. That leaves 26 nodes for "quirks" and "modules." This sounds like a lot until you have to spend 17 of those 26 on nodes you don't want to get to nodes you do want.

The trees don't have to be tangled with nodes spread out requiring undesired skills be unlocked to reach them. 26 skill points is enough to unlock 5 "modules" fully - just give us a linear 1-5 for each skillset. Let me choose how much seismic or radar derp I need and unlock accordingly.

[Lily from animove]

mycroft000, on 26 April 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

There is no meaningful choices to be made under this system. This is my sensor tree(and will be on 90% of mechs I own):

now lets have a look at desired skilsl for my Nova


Edit: one yellow radarderp is kinda wroing and should be green.

red unneeded
yellow, ok to have, but could live without them
green: things I actualyl want.

So there are 7 desired skills. which makes have to invets into 19! skills to get them, and of those 16 5 are soemwhat ok, while 6 are crap

so 7/5/7 a ratio of around 58%% unwanted stuff of which the majority of the unwanted stuff is purely bad and not even needed on ANY of my mechs. .

technically this makes the skill tree less a choice of hat iw ant and more a choice of what I do NOT want.

I want to buy a car, but you can't get that without also buying this bike and this electric drill. Well at least I coudl reselel the bike and electric drill.

What really sucks about skill trees is that they do NOT take chassis into account, target decay is great for lock on wepaon mechs, otherwise rather useless because I only need a short view on my opponents ragdoll to see his status and can memorise this in the battle, ther eis no need for any "see how he is when he is gone" moment.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 April 2017 - 02:40 AM.