58 replies to this topic

[GrimRiver]

And they ARE the minority as they are outnumbered by those who are for the skill tree.

Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard.

Here's a poll: https://mwomercs.com...e-go-live-poll/

If this poll is any indication, more people are for it than against it.

People that are against it don't want to have their comfort levels messed with and those types are the last to adapt to any changes because they know they'll be left behind.

It's 2017, not 2013 and it's past time we get out of this placeholder system that we've been stuck with for 3+ years.

The tree isn't perfect, we all know this but it's been a better option than those before it as a replacement for the aging placeholder past it's prime.

Face it naysayers you're outnumbered, cut your loses, suck it up and prepare for change like the rest of us.

(((This is for those that are outright against the tree without offering reason or cause)))

People keep misreading my post, here is clarification: "Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard." I'm talking about all the topics in the forums and it's comments on the subject of skill tree.

"If this poll is any indication, more people are for it than against it." I'm talking about the votes pertaining to the poll itself and was used as a bit of extra data. Ie: I'm not using the poll as a 100% source of my information.

>>>(((Reading comprehension people, geez. I've already stated multiple times throughout my post and in the clarification above^ that the poll is only a small part of my post, as in it's (((NOT))) what my post is about nor was about in the beginning. Besides the poll isn't even mine, look at the author of the poll, it's a different person as you can see.)))<<<

Edited by GrimRiver, 28 April 2017 - 08:42 AM.

[BlueFlames]

GrimRiver, on 27 April 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

And they ARE the minority as they are outnumbered by those who are for the skill tree.

Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard.

Here's a poll: https://mwomercs.com...e-go-live-poll/

There's 92 active players left? Population problems are worse than I thought....

GrimRiver, on 27 April 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

(((This is for those that are outright against the tree without offering reason or cause)))

Most of the 'naysayers' (as you characterize them) are offering their reasons. The threads that I've been keeping up with are offering specific critiques along with adjustments or alternatives for PGI to consider.

[Mystere]

At only 100 votes at this point in time, that poll means nothing.


I myself am wodering why we even need a "skill" tree in a Mechwarrior game. As such, I have no problem with MWO just junking the entire idea.

Edited by Mystere, 27 April 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[GrimRiver]

BlueFlames, on 27 April 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

There's 92 active players left? Population problems are worse than I thought....


Most of the 'naysayers' (as you characterize them) are offering their reasons. The threads that I've been keeping up with are offering specific critiques along with adjustments or alternatives for PGI to consider.

Those aren't naysayers, those are just people listing their "critiques" on how the tree can be better.

I'm talking about the people that just say "NO!" and are 100% against the tree no matter what is changed and done to it.

Mystere, on 27 April 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

At only 100 votes at this point in time, that poll means nothing.


I myself am wodering why we even need a "skill" tree in a Mechwarrior game. As such, I have no problem with MWO just junking the entire idea.

When I said this: "Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard." I meant the forums as a whole, as in all the topics and their comments.

The poll itself as that is a separate sentence with me talking about the indication of the voting in the poll itself.

[Ced Riggs]

GrimRiver, on 27 April 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard.

Let's be fair here.

Yes - lets just get it over and done (61 votes [62.89%])
No - it needs more work (36 votes [37.11%])

Barely 100 people on the forum aren't representative. For starters, out of 100% of players, about 90% never look into the forums, and out of those, half don't post, and out of those, half don't post more than once or twice, and out of those, most don't participate in that poll. If you are talking about minorities, you are Inception-tier deep into minorities.

Forum goers are minorities.
Forum posters are minorities of that minority.
Regular forum posters are minorities of that minority.
Poll participants are minorities of that minority.

So, eh, grain of salt and all. I don't think 30 people more in favour is that clear of a lead. Not exactly a landslide going on here. All in all, I am on the fence myself, but this meta-convincing of other forum goers (because, let's face it, that poll won't say the devs, nor will this post) is pointless. And, as clearly evidenced in numbers, a fallacy to begin with.

[Ruar]

Limited poll is limited. I want the skill tree but it needs to be linear instead of a Web. You should have added more poll options. You conclusion is based on biased data.

[GrimRiver]

Ced Riggs, on 27 April 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Let's be fair here.

Yes - lets just get it over and done (61 votes [62.89%])
No - it needs more work (36 votes [37.11%])

Barely 100 people on the forum aren't representative. For starters, out of 100% of players, about 90% never look into the forums, and out of those, half don't post, and out of those, half don't post more than once or twice, and out of those, most don't participate in that poll. If you are talking about minorities, you are Inception-tier deep into minorities.

Forum goers are minorities.
Forum posters are minorities of that minority.
Regular forum posters are minorities of that minority.
Poll participants are minorities of that minority.

So, eh, grain of salt and all. I don't think 30 people more in favour is that clear of a lead. Not exactly a landslide going on here. All in all, I am on the fence myself, but this meta-convincing of other forum goers (because, let's face it, that poll won't say the devs, nor will this post) is pointless. And, as clearly evidenced in numbers, a fallacy to begin with.

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Limited poll is limited. I want the skill tree but it needs to be linear instead of a Web. You should have added more poll options. You conclusion is based on biased data.

From #4 comment: "When I said this: "Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard." I meant the forums as a whole, as in all the topics and their comments.
The poll itself as that is a separate sentence with me talking about the indication of the voting in the poll itself."

I was using the poll as a extra bit of data paired with all of the forums topics on the subject of skill tree.

[BlueFlames]

GrimRiver, on 27 April 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

I'm talking about the people that just say "NO!" and are 100% against the tree no matter what is changed and done to it.

You're fighting shadows.

[Ced Riggs]

GrimRiver, on 27 April 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

I meant the forums as a whole, as in all the topics and their comments. I was using the poll as a extra bit of data paired with all of the forums topics on the subject of skill tree.

Confirmation bias ("Seeing what you want to see") isn't a good source to base a conclusion on that you preset as fact to an audience that cannot affect the process in question. My post still stands, each point individually and as a whole. Point is: Forum goers are a minority. And so on. Nothing that happens here or is posted here is representative of the player base at large. This also isn't a democratic vote, or a debate among players, but all you can (and should) do, is provide feedback about the PTS in the PTS forum.

This thread, that poll and the myriad of posts whining or praising some meta side-effect of the PTS are pointless, as they aren't feedback on the PTS, and are 100% irrelevant to the developers. But, then again, so is my post. And the cycle continues, in every online game ever, where people think they need to convince their fellow players, or that feedback is somehow a jury process where we need to come to the same opinion. We don't. We provide feedback. Devs read feedback and either act upon it or not. End of story.

[Zacharias McLeod]

GrimRiver, on 27 April 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

And they ARE the minority as they are outnumbered by those who are for the skill tree.

Proof? The forum is my proof, go take a gander it's not hard.

Here's a poll: https://mwomercs.com...e-go-live-poll/

If this poll is any indication, more people are for it than against it.

Never seen this poll before.

And I think most of the other guys who say NO to the new skilltreee too.

So this is absolutly no proof.

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 27 April 2017 - 10:05 AM.

[B0oN]

Send the Skilltree live .

[GrimRiver]

Ced Riggs, on 27 April 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Confirmation bias ("Seeing what you want to see") isn't a good source to base a conclusion on that you preset as fact to an audience that cannot affect the process in question. My post still stands, each point individually and as a whole. Point is: Forum goers are a minority. And so on. Nothing that happens here or is posted here is representative of the player base at large. This also isn't a democratic vote, or a debate among players, but all you can (and should) do, is provide feedback about the PTS in the PTS forum.

This thread, that poll and the myriad of posts whining or praising some meta side-effect of the PTS are pointless, as they aren't feedback on the PTS, and are 100% irrelevant to the developers. But, then again, so is my post. And the cycle continues, in every online game ever, where people think they need to convince their fellow players, or that feedback is somehow a jury process where we need to come to the same opinion. We don't. We provide feedback. Devs read feedback and either act upon it or not. End of story.

Playerbase? I never said anything about the playerbase, I'm talking about the forums and everything pertaining to the forums.

How is it Confirmation bias when there is a countable number of more people FOR skill tree than outright against it in the forums?

[Ultimax]

Your proof is a vote that has only been posted a few hours where 38% have voted NO?


Yeah, you might want to work on your logical thinking.

[Monkey Lover]

Lol the poll is fine. All you have to do is compare it to energy draw polls and this one is much better even with 100ish votes.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 April 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Metus regem]

Mystere, on 27 April 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

At only 100 votes at this point in time, that poll means nothing.


I myself am wodering why we even need a "skill" tree in a Mechwarrior game. As such, I have no problem with MWO just junking the entire idea.

To put the warrior part in Mechwarrior... also the roots of what Mechwarrior became was an RPG after all....

Personally I'd rather have pilot profiles, say 2-3 profiles free, extras cost MC, those profiles get perks based on what you use them for... Like if you have one pilot that you use purely in Clan Mediums, they get perks to make Clan Mediums run faster/turn tighter...ect. But take that pilot profile and slam it into an IS Medium, he/she/it only gets half those perk values in IS Mediums.

[GrimRiver]

Zacharias McLeod, on 27 April 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Never seen this poll before.

And I think most of the other guys who say NO to the new skilltreee too.

So this is absolutly no proof.

Ultimax, on 27 April 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Your proof is a vote that has only been posted a few hours where 38% have voted NO?


Yeah, you might want to work on your logical thinking.

Monkey Lover, on 27 April 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Lol the poll is fine. All you have to do is compare it to energy draw polls and this one is muchanything better even with 100ish votes.

Read comment #7 for clarification on what I meant with the poll statement.

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 27 April 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

At only 100 votes at this point in time, that poll means nothing.


I myself am wodering why we even need a "skill" tree in a Mechwarrior game. As such, I have no problem with MWO just junking the entire idea.

Agreed!
Junk the skills, junk the quirks, junk the modules. Let's just have pure unadulterated mech on mech action!

[TercieI]

Ultimax, on 27 April 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Your proof is a vote that has only been posted a few hours where 38% have voted NO?


Yeah, you might want to work on your logical thinking.

This. Also, the vast majority of players who really understand MWO wisely shun these forums. (I'm just stubborn or stupid or something...)

[Almond Brown]

Fact of the matter is simple. PGI will never satisfy everyone and some will not come down off their Soapbox until they get what they want, no compromise. Fine. Lets do this PGI and those on the soapboxes can stay on those soapboxes and simply continue to complain about how they did not get their way. Since they will never be happy, and remain on their soapboxes no matter the outcome, can we just do this thing already. Please.

[Monkey Lover]

Not having a skill tree isn't an option . You need it for grinding. That's all this game is , it's one big grind.