103 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

Cementi, on 27 April 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Haha and people wonder why tier 1's are mostly hated as kill joy try hards. You people do it to yourself.

If this offends you it most likely applies to you. If it does not it does not.

I think I'll go que up a no armor locust or stock urbie now just to annoy these kinds of people.

This is why I keep to the mantra, "carry harder and carry on".

[Daemon04]

Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll.

[Roadbuster]

Gauss sniper dealing 400dmg
LRM boat dealing 400dmg

Which one is more effective?


Then you have the players who lead a push, or the ones who backstab the enemy or try to split them up.
They might be the ones who give their team the advantage which results in a win, but their damage might be crap.

I prefer players who step up to help their teammates, and not the ones who run away and hide as soon as they take some light damage.

[Cementi]

Well look at that. I tallied up all of the damage I have done in this game minus archived stats.....cause stats are boring and there was only so much I could take, and apparently I managed to average 282 damage per match. That includes playing unmastered mechs and odd ball builds.

I guess I am still allowed to play.

[Mystere]

KBurn85, on 26 April 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

Also, how are you T1?

How often does it need to be said that it is just a progress bar?

[Shifty McSwift]

Cementi, on 27 April 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Well look at that. I tallied up all of the damage I have done in this game minus archived stats.....cause stats are boring and there was only so much I could take, and apparently I managed to average 282 damage per match. That includes playing unmastered mechs and odd ball builds.

I guess I am still allowed to play.

Only up until you have one of those under 250 games in the OPs presence, then you are outta here!

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 27 April 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

How often does it need to be said that it is just a progress bar?

I try so hard to play right and still get it to go down and just look, just friggin LOOK....







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Edited by CDLord HHGD, 27 April 2017 - 07:47 AM.

[Erronius]

If a kid is having trouble learning to ride a bike w/o training wheels, you really have two options: just accept that it's going to be a rough process and let them learn the hard way, or put the training wheels back on the bike until they're ready to try again w/o them.

The problem with this comparison, though, is that the Training Grounds and Academy aren't really even at the level of being training wheels for MWO. They're more like one of those baby walkers for infants. The only actual solution is to just accept that you're going to have to deal with people of varying skill levels and not run off to the forum to complain about it whenever some potato invades your skill-based safe space...and yet, here we are.

[JohnnyWayne]

Damage is not everything, kills are not everything. But both combined they are a good indicator in this game. Because its not that much about teamplay except not let lights wipe out assaults, not standing in each others way and shooting the same targets. Oh and because there is no such thing as healing, meaning there is only a set amount of armor on the field.

In general I have to say: He is not wrong, at last from his perspective. Competetive mindset, plays to win or at least to have good battles. I share that aspect. I don't like people playing drunk or ******* around ruining matches for others. That is actually a problem - there is no competitive mode that relys on player skill for ranking to set apart these two types of players. 8v8 "competetive" won't fix this, too large groups — still leading to reduced relevancy of individual players skill.

The only thing I see to seperate these playertypes is a solaris mode, 1v1 2v2,3v3, 4v4 and FFA. But this is something PGI doesn't want - to seperate the playerbase. So we will have to put up with each others ****.

[Jackal Noble]

We can't all have 800+ dmg rounds, there'd be none of us left to be victors. There are always going to be lower scores just like there are going to be a few higher scoring outliers, it's the nature of the beast. Personally, I'm a bit confused at the hang up on this subject.

[xe N on]

FuhNuGi, on 26 April 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

A "low damage" threshold is around 250, especially if you are taking up 80 tons+

If you find you are often finding yourself with less that 250damage in a round, please take a moment and STOP TRYING TO JAM THE SQUARE PEG IN A ROUND HOLE.

FYI

You can at least kill 6 enemies by your own doing less than 250 damage.

You can do 1000 damage and contribute less than someone doing only 250 damage.

Edited by xe N on, 27 April 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

JackalBeast, on 27 April 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

We can't all have 800+ dmg rounds, there'd be none of us left to be victors. There are always going to be lower scores just like there are going to be a few higher scoring outliers, it's the nature of the beast. Personally, I'm a bit confused at the hang up on this subject.

From experience, in rounds where everyone did good, 400-500 damage was done by each individually. Larger gaps between describe either tactical mistakes made or pilot skill/experience differences.

xe N on, on 27 April 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

FYI

You can at least kill 6 enemies by your own doing less than 250 damage.

You can do 1000 damage and contribute less than someone doing only 250 damage.

Sounds like a valid argument, but is not. Because there is no healing in this game - damage done is damage done leading to a faster end of your opponent. Even spread out damage is making your day easier in MWO as long as there is someone left to land a finishing blow somewhen.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 27 April 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[Amsro]

CDLord HHGD, on 27 April 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

I try so hard to play right and still get it to go down and just look, just friggin LOOK....







<-----------------------------------------

Looking at your current leaderboard stats. I would say you die just a bit too early to get the score you are looking for.

Took me a bit of time to get that right.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Usual disclaimers :

I'm a noob.
I'm Tier 5.
My stats are bad.
I'm a potato.
I'm a whale.
I'm a dinosaur.


That said, I won't get into the |33t vs terribads debate.

I'll just say this : telling me to go back to the Academy or Training Grounds to "git gud" is moronic.

Why ?

In the Training Grounds, you find static targets that don't shoot back.

How can that help in learning how to aim at moving targets that pummel you ?
How can you learn to torso-twist without taking damage ?
How can you learn to ride out the shakes of massed volleys of missiles / solid rounds without actually taking fire ?

In the Academy, there is the "Onslaught" part where you do face waves of 'Mechs moving and shooting at you ... and they have some much HPs and so much long range weapons that taking a high DPS short range build means death before the end of the first wave, taking anything below Assault level armor means dying very quickly, and so on.

Oh, and you're rooted in place, you can torso-twist, and that's all. And if you twist, you don't shoot, meaning you take even more incoming damage.

Cherry on top of the cake, the 'AI bots' in there never miss.

The only way I found to get past Wave 4 in that mode is to take an Assault Mech, decrease back armor to 1, load up on LRM 20s, Artemis, Active Probe, and fire said LRMs one by one, one on each target.

And even then, the fast 'Mechs in the waves get to you awfully fast and unload ungodly amounts of damage with surgical precision in your center torso.

There is no other way to learn to play than to get in real, live matches with real, live players and do megatons of errors, and then try to analyze your own perfomance and get better next time.

Sorry for the rantastic wall of text, that kind of attitude makes my bile boil, and that spoils the mustard that reaches my nose in a hurry.

[xe N on]

JohnnyWayne, on 27 April 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Sounds like a valid argument, but is not. Because there is no healing in this game - damage done is damage done leading to a faster end of your opponent. Even spread out damage is making your day easier in MWO as long as there is someone left to land a finishing blow somewhen.

That a wrong assumption. Damage is not equal in MWO. Spreading damage is bad, because it damage parts of a mech that are not vital. Otherwise LBX would be king - but the opposite is the case. It's even more worse if you cannot control your spread, like LRMs or SSRMs.

Dual Gauss doing 250 damage vs. SSRM doing 250 damage against one Atlas target.

Dual gaus potentially did 250 damage to the center torso. Atlas is dead.
SSRM did 50 damage per part. Atlas is slightly amused.

Every damage helps is wrong. A team with PPFLD damage but half the DPS vs. a team doing spread damage wins - or can't aim.

Edited by xe N on, 27 April 2017 - 09:55 AM.

[Mechteric]

Ya know, it is possible to have 250+ damage and still not be useful to the team. Like if you only managed to scratch each enemy mech a couple times in locations that don't help much, like the shield arms on centurions, etc.

[JohnnyWayne]

xe N on, on 27 April 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

That a wrong assumption. Damage is not equal in MWO. Spreading damage is bad, because it damage parts of a mech that are not vital. Otherwise LBX would be king - but the opposite is the case. It's even more worse if you cannot control your spread, like LRMs or SSRMs.

Dual Gauss doing 250 damage vs. SSRM doing 250 damage against one Atlas target.

Dual gaus potentially did 250 damage to the center torso. Atlas is dead.
SSRM did 50 damage per part. Atlas is slightly amused.

Every damage helps is wrong. A team having focus damage but half DPS against a team doing spread damage wins.

There is a reason people with most kills usually have also most damage. I tend to be the exception to that sometimes, especially in light mechs. Point is, you better have a lot of damage and no kills than neither of it.

Personally I thinkt the kill most damage dealt attribute should be the actual "kill" count. It tells the most about performance. It basically reflects damage + kills. Oh and please, noone come and tell me about objectives - these do matter little in regards of skill. (Exception are map control objectives)

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 27 April 2017 - 09:53 AM.

[xe N on]

JohnnyWayne, on 27 April 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

There is a reason people with most kills usually have also most damage. I tend to be the exception to that sometimes, especially in light mechs. Point is, you better have a lot of damage and no kills than neither of it.

Personally I thinkt the kill most damage dealt attribute should be the actual "kill" count. It tells the most about performance. It basically reflects damage + kills. Oh and please, noone come and tell me about objectives - these do matter little in regards of skill. (Exception are map control objectives)

No again.

Benchmarking players in MWO is a very complex thing. Your damage depends on so many factors. At beginner level high damage may indicate that you are good. At very level high skill level high damage scores could indicate that your aim is bad.

I often score higher damage in my meds as in my heavies. Because most focus heavies first, so I have more time to do damage in a med than in a heavy. Also mobility plays an role here. I simply have more chances to apply damage. That doesn't mean that any heavy player that scored lower than me is a worse pilot.

Damage also depends on the average team weight. If you going against a lot assault mechs you damage score will be higher because you can strip more armor.

Edited by xe N on, 27 April 2017 - 10:09 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Damage and kills clearly correlate. You can see that by watching good players play. Some rare happenings don't change anything about that.

Damage and Weightclass usually correlates, but watching good players like bear_claw shows that he can put up a 1k dmg game in a ACH with ease.

[Clownwarlord]

If you really want to get good this is what you need to do:

1- actually want to do better

...

Thats it.

After that you can then use these tips. Join a group and learn from them (try to join a group with better players then you), find their builds and make them work for you, and lastly the easiest way to get better at this game is slow down your play (not go slower or anything, but think out, "do I turn this corner or stop take a seismic sensor peek and then turn it?").

Going to the academy is a joke in my opinion ... I only use it to test heat while shooting multiple moving targets.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 27 April 2017 - 10:48 AM.