58 replies to this topic

[Pr8Dator2]

Too many complains about how their mechs are not as agile as before, not shooting as much DPS as before with the new skill tree but they miss one point...

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS GAME NEEDS NOW!

This game has power creeped to a point where fights last 3 seconds and one missed shot means you die! This has become such an unfriendly game for the casual player and even some veterans that its going to be INSANE with the new weapons coming up!

We need a global nerf to make this game playable again! Less speed, less DPS, more forgiving, less light/assault gap. This is the exact most important thing about this skill tree IMO. Complainers forget, its not your mech alone getting hit, EVERY mech is getting hit, some more than others but all for a better and more forgiving game!

I played the test server and my lance of HBK IIC became so sluggish I am sure I won't be bossing around in them like before and thats a GOOD THING!! Less heavy and medium mechs running and fllying around like light mechs and less light mechs behaving like ninjas that cant be dropped by 4 mechs firing at 1 of them at the same time for over 20 seconds!

Edited by Pr8Dator2, 27 April 2017 - 08:43 PM.

[slide]

Agreed.

My unit managed to get enough players together the other night to play a couple of private stock matches. It is seriously like playing a completely different game. Games that were taking 10-15 minutes and were close would have been over in less than 5 if we had all taken custom mechs with all the quirks and modules installed. Absolutely the best fun I have had in ages in MWO.

Not that I am advocating for stock mechs, it's just an example.

That said PGI stated some time ago that TTK needed to be higher. It was obvious to me as soon as we saw the skill tree that this was how they were going to do it. My only complaint is it might not be enough of a nerf.

[Pr8Dator2]

slide, on 27 April 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Agreed.

My unit managed to get enough players together the other night to play a couple of private stock matches. It is seriously like playing a completely different game. Games that were taking 10-15 minutes and were close would have been over in less than 5 if we had all taken custom mechs with all the quirks and modules installed. Absolutely the best fun I have had in ages in MWO.

Not that I am advocating for stock mechs, it's just an example.

That said PGI stated some time ago that TTK needed to be higher. It was obvious to me as soon as we saw the skill tree that this was how they were going to do it. My only complaint is it might not be enough of a nerf.

EXACTLY! For so long its a well known fact that stock matches are more fun and we need to understand why that is so and learn that lesson for the main game!

[FupDup]

Making bad mechs weaker and strong mechs stronger doesn't improve TTK.

[Pr8Dator2]

FupDup, on 27 April 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Making bad mechs weaker and strong mechs stronger doesn't improve TTK.

Which strong mech is gettting stronger?? Last I saw, KDK3 is getting hit, ballistics are getting hit... how are the current lord builds becoming stronger??

Also, some mechs are going to get hit for real... its sad but these are mechs we rarely see being used anyways

Edited by Pr8Dator2, 27 April 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[FupDup]

Pr8Dator2, on 27 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

Which strong mech is gettting stronger??

The top Clan mechs that are currently quirkless are immune to PGI's quirk nerfs that are going to hit nearly every IS mech and a lot of sub-par Clan Omnimechs. Meanwhile, those mechs who got their base quirks nerfed cannot recuperate those nerfs even when they max out the corresponding skill trees.

On the same token, those quirkless mechs now get to actually have quirks.

Edited by FupDup, 27 April 2017 - 08:58 PM.

[R Valentine]

Pr8Dator2, on 27 April 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

Too many complains about how their mechs are not as agile as before, not shooting as much DPS as before with the new skill tree but they miss one point...

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS GAME NEEDS NOW!

This game has power creeped to a point where fights last 3 seconds and one missed shot means you die! This has become such an unfriendly game for the casual player and even some veterans that its going to be INSANE with the new weapons coming up!

We need a global nerf to make this game playable again! Less speed, less DPS, more forgiving, less light/assault gap. This is the exact most important thing about this skill tree IMO. Complainers forget, its not your mech alone getting hit, EVERY mech is getting hit, some more than others but all for a better and more forgiving game!

I played the test server and my lance of HBK IIC became so sluggish I am sure I won't be bossing around in them like before and thats a GOOD THING!! Less heavy and medium mechs running and fllying around like light mechs and less light mechs behaving like ninjas that cant be dropped by 4 mechs firing at 1 of them at the same time for over 20 seconds!

It's a bigger nerf to IS. That's not what we need right now.

[Pr8Dator2]

FupDup, on 27 April 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

The top Clan mechs that are currently quirkless are immune to PGI's quirk nerfs that are going to hit every IS mech and a lot of sub-par Clan Omnimechs. Meanwhile, those mechs who got their base quirks nerfed cannot recuperate those nerfs even when they max out the corresponding skill trees.

On the same token, those quirkless mechs now get to actually have quirks.

Last I played on the test servers, the quirks were still tthere... what is your basis for the assumption?

[Shifty McSwift]

FupDup, on 27 April 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Making bad mechs weaker and strong mechs stronger doesn't improve TTK.

If you don't include the quirk changes and just consider the skill tree alone it is definitely an across the board equal change, mechs that were in a bad place are still in a bad place, but were before too.

It is arguably whether it is a nerf though, compared to the old system some things can certainly be made better.

I think pred8tor is taking into account the actual behind the scenes nerfs too, that are just coming into play with the skill tree, like the quirk nerf but separate.

[Pr8Dator2]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

If you don't include the quirk changes and just consider the skill tree alone it is definitely an across the board equal change, mechs that were in a bad place are still in a bad place, but were before too.

It is arguably whether it is a nerf though, compared to the old system some things can certainly be made better.

I think pred8tor is taking into account the actual behind the scenes nerfs too, that are just coming into play with the skill tree, like the quirk nerf but separate.

EXACTLY THAT!

[FupDup]

Pr8Dator2, on 27 April 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Last I played on the test servers, the quirks were still tthere... what is your basis for the assumption?

The patch notes listed for the current PTS.

https://mwomercs.com...test-session-2/

Edited by FupDup, 27 April 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Still looks like a nerf to bad mechs and a buff to tier1 mechs to me.

I see more people shifting to meta and faster deaths coming.

[R Valentine]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

If you don't include the quirk changes and just consider the skill tree alone it is definitely an across the board equal change, mechs that were in a bad place are still in a bad place, but were before too. It is arguably whether it is a nerf though, compared to the old system some things can certainly be made better. I think pred8tor is taking into account the actual behind the scenes nerfs too, that are just coming into play with the skill tree, like the quirk nerf but separate.

Hahahahaha, "if you don't include quirk nerfs". Uhm, there are massive quirk nerfs, so that's like saying the sky isn't blue if you don't include the sun, the atmosphere, your eyes, refraction...

[Shifty McSwift]

Kiran Yagami, on 27 April 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

Hahahahaha, "if you don't include quirk nerfs". Uhm, there are massive quirk nerfs, so that's like saying the sky isn't blue if you don't include the sun, the atmosphere, your eyes, refraction...

Blaming the skill tree for that is a weird choice though isn't it? Aren't they separate changes that are also subject to future change? The skill system isn't really the problem here.

[FupDup]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Blaming the skill tree for that is a weird choice though isn't it? Aren't they separate changes that are also subject to future change? The skill system isn't really the problem here.

Technically they should be separate things (e.g. just keep current base quirks), but PGI is packaging them together in a very misguided way.

Edited by FupDup, 27 April 2017 - 09:02 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

If they dump the skill tree tomorrow will all of the mechs that are bottom of the meta suddenly become popular?

[Shifty McSwift]

We just have a couple of patches coming that may alter balance rates substantially in unpredictable ways, if the end result of that is crappy balance or the same meta we have now then I will be on the complaining side of it in no time. I already make calls to nerf OP mechs and boost the lacking ones, but those are case by case calls, separate from sweeping nerfs and system changes, a top end meta involving a couple dozen mechs out of over 300 and/or faction superiority are not things I want, but we live with it now too.

[slide]

Pr8Dator2, on 27 April 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

EXACTLY! For so long its a well known fact that stock matches are more fun and we need to understand why that is so and learn that lesson for the main game!

The answer is simple, you don't get your head blown off (mech destroyed) or CT opened up the first time you step out from behind your rock by a 70+ point alpha.

IMO the Damage/Armor dynamic in this game has been wrong since day one (acknowledged by PGI when they doubled armor and internals). TT has a distributed damage/distributed armor model as is required by the RNG that is dice. This works and makes the mech far more durable.

This game has for the most part a concentrated damage/distributed armor model which is what makes high alpha PPFLD weapons so effective. It is why twisting is so important when facing DOT weapons like lasers. I would argue that the only weapons that function even remotely like TT are LBX and missiles, which is why they aren't as effective. The only reason SRMs are effective, when boated in large numbers at point blank range, it ismore like using a sledge hammer rather than a normal hammer to punch in nails, effective but not really elegant.

No proper heat scale to penalize the large alphas doesn't help either.

A speed and heat related cone of fire and a proper heat scale would make this a more BT related product. Neither will ever be accepted by the I want it dead 1 second after comes under my cross hairs players. So we will continue to have Giant Robbits COD Online.

[Tarogato]

It's not really a global nerf though, it's more of a global redistribution. Agility is going down and firepower is creeping up, but hitpoints are also going up and infotech is going down.

[Tarl Cabot]

Before the doubling of armor/internal structure, PGI practically halved weapons cooldown timers cause IGP/family-friends complained it was taking too long to kill mechs, and this was with IS mechs, SHS and STD engine and no 12vs12 matches.