140 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Lukoi Banacek, on 28 April 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Yup, ST is coming, no doubting that.

Just hoping they can make some solid tweaks to get it better aligned with their own declared intent, keep it usable etc.

That would be my preference, but I feel that a lot of stuff will need a live environment to really sort. Could be wrong, but I think our data pool in PTS is too limited. Also, we have to hope that PGI is willing to be proactive in quirk adjustments based on that telemetry.

[Imperius]

Mystere, on 28 April 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Which is why I am pretty much bewildered that, of all things, people are raging about compensation.

Because it's coming regardless...

[Khobai]

cant stop the skill tree train at this point

can just try to limit how much damage it causes

[El Bandito]

Meh, I still prefer the new tree to that of the current one we have. Before people forget, current skill tree is also plagued with skills with miniscule % increase, and filler skill that does absolutely nothing (Pin Point), or does next to nothing (Arm turn rate). At least with the new skill tree, depending on the mech type, I can have more variety while leveling them up.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

Tell you what...I'll do you one better.....

Let's get rid of the Skill Tree... and the lame *** crutch modules while we are at it, since neither "have any place in mechwarrior".

I'm game.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

Tell you what...I'll do you one better.....

Let's get rid of the Skill Tree... and the lame *** crutch modules while we are at it, since neither "have any place in mechwarrior".

Impossible. PGI needs its C-Bill quicksand. Unless you offer them an alternative.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

Impossible. PGI needs its C-Bill quicksand. Unless you offer them an alternative.

Sure. Although of course they could make various other grinds. I was just referring to the specific comment being made, and the somewhat silly stance that "Skill tree bad" but somehow, equally ludicrous "Modules good".

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

Tell you what...I'll do you one better.....

Let's get rid of the Skill Tree... and the lame *** crutch modules while we are at it, since neither "have any place in mechwarrior".

Would have no problem with that. The skill tree in a lot of ways seems to be about rolling back years of power creep. However it's adding a cbill sink and extending the XP grind significantly so I'm not sure if that's worth it to PGI.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 April 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Even without getting weapon quirks, it is hard to justify going down that path.

Armor quirks, being a % thing, are of dubious value though. Probably the consumable stuff.

Then again just getting the heat gen stuff in weapon tree is just about worth it on an ACH. I'd have to see if it equated to enough to make it worth the cost. A couple coolshots or being able to carry like 4 UAVs though? That I'd take on an ACH all day over sensor quirks and such.

4 UAVs. Mmmmm.....

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Would have no problem with that. The skill tree in a lot of ways seems to be about rolling back years of power creep. However it's adding a cbill sink and extending the XP grind significantly so I'm not sure if that's worth it to PGI.



Armor quirks, being a % thing, are of dubious value though. Probably the consumable stuff.

Then again just getting the heat gen stuff in weapon tree is just about worth it on an ACH. I'd have to see if it equated to enough to make it worth the cost. A couple coolshots or being able to carry like 4 UAVs though? That I'd take on an ACH all day over sensor quirks and such.

4 UAVs. Mmmmm.....

Well you know my opinion on the state of Power Creep, and the mulitlayered bandaids we have in game that are doing more to actually keep REAL fixes from happening.

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Would have no problem with that. The skill tree in a lot of ways seems to be about rolling back years of power creep. However it's adding a cbill sink and extending the XP grind significantly so I'm not sure if that's worth it to PGI.



Armor quirks, being a % thing, are of dubious value though. Probably the consumable stuff.

Then again just getting the heat gen stuff in weapon tree is just about worth it on an ACH. I'd have to see if it equated to enough to make it worth the cost. A couple coolshots or being able to carry like 4 UAVs though? That I'd take on an ACH all day over sensor quirks and such.

4 UAVs. Mmmmm.....

Gonna be "fun" having 48 strikes per wave. Sigh...

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Gonna be "fun" having 48 strikes per wave. Sigh...

sounds like old times......

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Gonna be "fun" having 48 strikes per wave. Sigh...

I thought that for a few moments too, then I was like "wait, those tools actually deter camping, reward situational awareness and cost the guys who use them, making their usage at least somewhat of a measured cost", I just hope they made it so the timer on them dropping isn't friggen 1.5 seconds >.< that will be a nightmare for sure.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

Well you know my opinion on the state of Power Creep, and the mulitlayered bandaids we have in game that are doing more to actually keep REAL fixes from happening.

Leave the quirks as is.

In fact I'd say there's some mechs that still need quirks on IS and Clan side. The nature of the skill tree is that it's going to help top performers get a bit better but bottom performers... still be bottom performers. 6 pts of armor on each ST are not going to help the Dragon really live longer. It's a long list but the bad mechs will still be bad, in some ways comparatively worse because the Night Gyr is going to benefit drastically more from velocity buffs to its PPCs than the Orion will gain in velocity buffs to its AC20. Both because of mount locations et al and because a 10% bonus to an AC20 is only 65 m/s while the CERPPC is getting 130 m/s for the same invested points.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

sounds like old times......

Yes, and I thought two strikes per mech was removed for a reason. And yet here we are. All because PGI wanted bigger C-Bill sink.

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Would have no problem with that. The skill tree in a lot of ways seems to be about rolling back years of power creep. However it's adding a cbill sink and extending the XP grind significantly so I'm not sure if that's worth it to PGI.



Armor quirks, being a % thing, are of dubious value though. Probably the consumable stuff.

Then again just getting the heat gen stuff in weapon tree is just about worth it on an ACH. I'd have to see if it equated to enough to make it worth the cost. A couple coolshots or being able to carry like 4 UAVs though? That I'd take on an ACH all day over sensor quirks and such.

4 UAVs. Mmmmm.....

Armor nodes would be more worthwhile if, instead of being a percentage boost to the armor you have allocated, they were a percentage boost to the maximum potential armor per location that gets applied regardless of how much you have installed. So it's +3 points per leg, for example, no matter how many I've installed out of the original allotment.

Then I really wold consider durability, even for a Locust.

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Yes, and I thought two strikes per mech was removed for a reason. And yet here we are. All because PGI wanted bigger C-Bill sink.

To be fair, they also thought the BJ-1X was power creepy as hell in 2015 configuration, and now we have the HBK-IIC. They also said no to >4x MGs on Lights...but we're about to get 8x on a Mist Lynx and 6x on an ACH.

Crazy times!

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 April 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

To be fair, they also thought the BJ-1X was power creepy as hell in 2015 configuration, and now we have the HBK-IIC. They also said no to >4x MGs on Lights...but we're about to get 8x on a Mist Lynx and 6x on an ACH.

Crazy times!

The Cheetah can also do 8 MGs if you mix the RT of the hero with the arms of the ACH-E.

I wonder if the 6 MG Spider still keeps PGI up at night...

[MischiefSC]

Situation has updated. I suggest relocating this conversation to here, where we're dealing with the new changes coming.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Gonna be "fun" having 48 strikes per wave. Sigh...

I'm going to be a very happy camper!

[Dee Eight]

I myself don't like how in the mobility tree I think it is...what in the previous PTS was you went thru shock absorbers all the time as the filler nodes...now its hill climb all the time. Ok...i get that there HAS to be filler nodes... I'm fine with that. But couldn't they make it even split between the filler options ? I actually WANT to have to go thru shock absorbers more than hill climb. Pretty much any mech I do hill climbing in for flanks has jump jets... and the shocks are more useful for coming off the hill again.

Also I get that they're reducing the quirks so the skill nodes don't stack with them on many mechs...hence large velocity bonus drops in mech quirks... but when you can really only buy back 10% velocity with deep investment... don't then wipe out 20-30% of quirk value without the explanation you think across the board the velocity buffing has been too high.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

I just don't understand how a system that discourages you from owning more than a few (meta) mechs is compatible with PGI's main money earning strategy of selling packs of mechs containing multiple variants.

I never had a problem with the rule of 3 and thought it was an effective mechanism for both enriching PGI and heavily encouraging people to own and play a wide variety of the mech variants available in the game.

Once the rule of 3 is abolished, why bother buying mech packs, especially once the exclusivity window expires?

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 28 April 2017 - 11:10 PM.