36 replies to this topic

[R Valentine]

It's just as much garbage as every other failed PGI initiative. They take what we want, then they absolutely, completely, and utterly violate it, butcher it, mutilate it, then vomit it out in a form that's barely even recognizable from what we asked for. Delete it. Delete it with fire.

[El Bandito]

Nah. Current skill tree is far more of an abomination, and I am glad it is getting replaced.

[MischiefSC]

We're rolling back years of power creep. It's not a bad thing. It needs some work but it's a huge step in the right direction.

[Pixel Hunter]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

We're rolling back years of power creep. It's not a bad thing. It needs some work but it's a huge step in the right direction.

I know, IS mechs had so much creep, so much that it came all the way around to them needing quirks that are almost all across the board nerfed

and, of course, the timber wolf needed those nodes, it was a tragedy before

Edited by Gimpy117, 26 April 2017 - 08:20 PM.

[MechaBattler]

It's certainly not perfect. But it's better than what we have now. Push it on live already! Let's have a good fry up on the forums for a week or two. Then no one will care. We've had much worse. By comparison this is getting much more mixed reception than previous debacles.

[MischiefSC]

Gimpy117, on 26 April 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

I know, IS mechs had so much creep, so much that it came all the way around to them needing quirks that are almost all across the board nerfed

and, of course, the timber wolf needed those nodes, it was a tragedy before

As a separate issue, the quirks in live right now today need kept with the new skill tree. Scaling those quirks back with the new skill tree is a terrible idea for balance. As I've said before.

Modules however were just straight power creep. 15% and 12% bonuses to range and cooldown. Derp, Seismic, etc. Straight perks for money. They were always a bad idea. I'm fine with the 'stock' max cooldown getting nerfed to 7.5% with a steep investment. Then mechs that need quirks to compete get quirks - just like they do today.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

We're rolling back years of power creep. It's not a bad thing. It needs some work but it's a huge step in the right direction.

EXCEPT... KDK-3/MAD-IIC/TMB/HBK-IIC/NTG are all MORE powerful then before in comparison!!! So your entire premise is absolutely as wrong as it can possibly be, the Skill Maze makes the Power Creep WORSE!!!!!! If it at all addressed the fundamental problems with Balance in the game I would support even a flawed version of it, but it does the exact opposite of that. Energy Draw would have been less harmful to the game than the utter dumpster fire the Skill Maze will accomplish

[MischiefSC]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 26 April 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

EXCEPT... KDK-3/MAD-IIC/TMB/HBK-IIC/NTG are all MORE powerful then before in comparison!!! So your entire premise is absolutely as wrong as it can possibly be, the Skill Maze makes the Power Creep WORSE!!!!!! If it at all addressed the fundamental problems with Balance in the game I would support even a flawed version of it, but it does the exact opposite of that. Energy Draw would have been less harmful to the game than the utter dumpster fire the Skill Maze will accomplish

As I've said a dozen times, we need to keep the live game quirks or yes. Absolutely. The skill tree is 100% neutral to mech/weapon/tech balance. It's like the tide; it goes in and out and all the ships raise and lower with it. I've gone over those exact mechs in fact - right now in live a BLR 2C is pretty close to a MAD IIC. The Scorch is still OP AF but against any of the regular builds I can stand it off with a 2C in most situations. Without the quirks it has however both the MAD IIC and the BLR 2C will get the same skill tree nodes and the BLR with be significantly inferior. No different than if they just removed the quirks in live today - both BLR and MAD IIC equip weapon modules, radar derp and seismic. That's all a wash.

The flat bonuses from the modules though? That needs rolled back. The additional, reduced benefits that the skill tree provides in lieu of modules lets you customize your mech without the same level of power modules provides but the quirks, as they are in live right now, those need to stay.

[DovisKhan]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 26 April 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

EXCEPT... KDK-3/MAD-IIC/TMB/HBK-IIC/NTG are all MORE powerful then before in comparison!!! So your entire premise is absolutely as wrong as it can possibly be, the Skill Maze makes the Power Creep WORSE!!!!!! If it at all addressed the fundamental problems with Balance in the game I would support even a flawed version of it, but it does the exact opposite of that. Energy Draw would have been less harmful to the game than the utter dumpster fire the Skill Maze will accomplish

In this new system Bushwacker has same structure+armor as an Ebon Jaguar, however the armor part in his structure+armor is hgher than that of an EBJ (since nodes also multiply the quirk values), which effectively means a Bushwacker is tankier than an EBJ, not to mention the superior hitboxes further making it better at surviving.

Under new system an EBJ would have very little chance vs a BSW in a brawl, (he'd be better at poking obviously due to high mounted hardpoints)

[RedDragon]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

It needs some work but it's a huge step in the right direction.

Wasn't that the reason they didn't release it the first time? Because it "needed some work"?

[B0oN]

RedDragon, on 26 April 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

Wasn't that the reason they didn't release it the first time? Because it "needed some work"?

And regarding competetiveness of the IS mechs versus the Clan machinery there might still be work to be done even after deploying .
So EVERYBODY get ready to get constructive THIS TIME around, please ?

Edited by The Shortbus, 27 April 2017 - 12:03 AM.

[DovisKhan]

The Shortbus, on 27 April 2017 - 12:03 AM, said:

And regarding competetiveness of the IS mechs versus the Clan machinery there might still be work to be done even after deploying .
So EVERYBODY get ready to get constructive THIS TIME around, please ?

Agreed, the new system surely looks good enough to deploy live, issues can be ironed out later


So don't get your panties in a bunch people, put the salt away and lets have some progress, you can get salty later

[Appogee]

I for one look forward to the 22,932 mouse clicks I will need to make to re-Master my 252 Mechs

I sure hope I make the right selections the first time!

[Kotzi]

Ye, dont like this RPG route. Its a shooter, take the mech designed for the task. This "leveling up" **** is no battletech influenced game anymore, well for me at least. Work with what is given. I am no lorewhore but if its labelled Mechwarrior or Battletech we should stay on topic. Customizing like in Battletech or Mechwarrior intended, loving it, but this is just awful.

[Gusevich]

DovisKhan, on 27 April 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

Agreed, the new system surely looks good enough to deploy live, issues can be ironed out later


So don't get your panties in a bunch people, put the salt away and lets have some progress, you can get salty later

...but this is PGI y'all talkin' about. It-will-not-be-ironed-out-later.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

DovisKhan, on 27 April 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

Agreed, the new system surely looks good enough to deploy live, issues can be ironed out later


So don't get your panties in a bunch people, put the salt away and lets have some progress, you can get salty later

Gusevich, on 27 April 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

...but this is PGI y'all talkin' about. It-will-not-be-ironed-out-later.

Just like faction warfare 3.0 (god tom) was addressed 5 months later

Just like FW 4.1 will be addressed soon, 60-90 days whatever time frame "looking forward" is.

[DovisKhan]

Kotzi, on 27 April 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

Ye, dont like this RPG route. Its a shooter, take the mech designed for the task. This "leveling up" **** is no battletech influenced game anymore, well for me at least. Work with what is given. I am no lorewhore but if its labelled Mechwarrior or Battletech we should stay on topic. Customizing like in Battletech or Mechwarrior intended, loving it, but this is just awful.

I can agree on this progression being RPG like and that's not really a good thing, cause it punishes new players.


They could make it so that everything in the Tree costs nothing, you can simply customize and explore, progression could be achieved by letting you use more colors/decals/skins when you level.

Meaning that if you see a pink bear with all kinds of decals on the battlefield, you'd now it's one tough sob


That said - I still want it live even at its current state

Edited by DovisKhan, 27 April 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

DovisKhan, on 26 April 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

In this new system Bushwacker has same structure+armor as an Ebon Jaguar, however the armor part in his structure+armor is hgher than that of an EBJ (since nodes also multiply the quirk values), which effectively means a Bushwacker is tankier than an EBJ, not to mention the superior hitboxes further making it better at surviving.

Under new system an EBJ would have very little chance vs a BSW in a brawl, (he'd be better at poking obviously due to high mounted hardpoints)

EBJ are already "poking" and to compare a Bushwacker to and Ebon Jag and in a positive light considering that the Ebon Jag is going to be carrying double the firepower of the Bushwacker which makes that "tankiness" almost irrelevant. As long as pixel perfect convergence is a thing than a mechs "tankiness" can NEVER be used as a benefit since it is overwhelmed by focused firepower.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I can't wait for the skill tree..

It will be the first thing in years that makes MWO fresh again, and it will be fun making my mechs just the way I want them..

Also, many will now have things I could not previously afford, like Advanced Zoom..

I could also delete many useless chassis variants, and overall make my mechs better..

Not to mention that the game balance and meta will be shaken up again, so the game will feel fresh and exciting..

Simply can't wait, and I support PGI on making the skill tress wholeheartedly.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Vellron2005, on 27 April 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

Personally, I can't wait for the skill tree..

It will be the first thing in years that makes MWO fresh again, and it will be fun making my mechs just the way I want them..

Also, many will now have things I could not previously afford, like Advanced Zoom..

I could also delete many useless chassis variants, and overall make my mechs better..

Not to mention that the game balance and meta will be shaken up again, so the game will feel fresh and exciting..

Simply can't wait, and I support PGI on making the skill tress wholeheartedly.

I am truly jealous of the rank ignorance & utter naivete that makes you believe that statement.... must be nice living in a world with the total inability to process reality around you and whatever fantasyland ideas makes you happy is what you perceive.