51 replies to this topic

[InvictusLee]

After listening to the dev stream on youtube after the fact, I've found that there was alot of emphasis put on stealth armor and rockets. Both sound equally useless, a waste of money and a waste of code.

For now, I'll focus on the stealth armor: If I were to equip the radar deprviation module on an ECM mech, the effect would basically be the same as stealth armor without the negative effects or possible tonnage usage. Realistically, how many players outside of the S-SRM/LRM boaters, actually use the HUD to lockon and target other mechs? Stealth armor sounds really cool in theory, but it sounds as if it wont change actual game play tactics at all. The current meta is all long range lasers, ppc's, gauss, or boating a number of small caliber autocannons. None of which require the player to do anything to aim, fire, rinse and repeat on any target in visual range.

If you cant make a light, ecm enabled mech also optically invisible; What then, is the point of this tech when existing tech will suffice?

Why not introduce an actual cloak or reactive armor instead?
I know its not exactly cannon, but i really loved the stilleto from the Mech Assault games which was basically a heavy, slow, well armed and cloaked Raven mech.

This is all just my opinion. I'm not sure what you guys think on the matter, but please dont flame me haha. Im about conversations not flame wars. xD

[Lukoi Banacek]

Well we don't know how they're going to implement it really, but tbh I lock on every target I shoot at. I think most players who do well in this game, tend to target (press R) because it helps tell you where to shoot. Sometimes the damage isn't obvious enough, or a leg is light on armor etc. Targeting helps a ton with that.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Actually there are invisibility systems in Battletech, in the past and future. Look to the Raptor II (one of my favorite mechs) as an example of said tech. Now, stealth armor has a plus, in that a lot of players are incapable of seeing mechs without a dorito over it, but, it has another bonus with seismic sensors being locked away and many people not wanting to invest the skill points for it with the upcoming skill tree, it will be easier to sneak around, being unable to differentiate the mech from terrain via heat vision or night vision is nice, no seismic giving you away is pretty nice too. The main thing is, Stealth Armor weighs the same as standard armor so it isn't going to take up more mass to slap on your mech, which is a plus, but, it needs 2 slots in your arms, legs, and side torsos to put it on.

I personally would like if it negated heat loss by a fixed amount so if you oversinked you still could slowly cool off while it was active, or it kept you from cooling at all instead of generating heat on it's own, would be a bit more valuable. Not being able to have my ECM be disrupted by taking a PPC shot? Pretty nice honestly, could save my butt, but, not super useful. Honestly, it will be a super niche system that I am going to try out on my Phoenix Hawk 1b, but, I doubt I really will like because on tabletop it is useful, enemies got a +1 on medium range to hit, and +2 on long range (so instead of needing a 7 to hit with a medium range weapon it is a 8 or higher, and for a long range it is a 9 or higher) where it is actually useful. MWO, eh, not as much, but, at least it just eats up slots and not tonnage, not that ferro gives much tonnage back at the weight brackets that stealth armor would be your first inclination to throw it on a mech (like a ton or so).

But, I do press R to get target info so I know where the enemy is weak so I can hammer that part and hopefully weaken or cripple them.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 28 April 2017 - 08:58 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Radar dep is no longer an instant effect, but a buildup with nodes, so if stealth gives an instant effect as well as minimap/radar invisibility, it is far from useless.

[Khobai]

well all they have to do is take stealth off ecm, get rid of the stealth bubble, and put it on stealth armor instead

ecm should NEVER have granted stealth or stealth bubble to begin with. its always been bad for the game and its hurt weapons like LRMs far more than what was necessary. the only source of stealth should be stealth armor and it should only stealth you not teammates.

and the main issue with radar derp is that it completely negates targeting decay. radar derp should be reduced by targeting decay instead of negating it completely.

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2017 - 09:10 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeah module based radar dep was OP AF, that was a good change to make it a % reduction in time.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 April 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

Yeah module based radar dep was OP AF, that was a good change to make it a % reduction in time.

Hilariously I use Radar derp on my ECM mechs for when I get hit with PPC's I still just vanish just for that extra frustration that even though they popped my ECM they still don't get to keep me from hiding. Very happy to see radar derp and Seismic changing, radar derp more so was far too strong and has been, was the first module I unlocked when I started, first module I bought due to how strong it is.

[stealthraccoon]

Isn't ECM bubble reduced and behind skill nodes?

Either way, stealth armor SOUNDS cool, and is homeworld brewed, so a win in my book.

[Mcgral18]

No, it won't be terrible useful

It effectively turns your DHS into SHS (1 H/s, to your cooling of ~2 H/s from TrueDubs)
For that cost, you have no Dorito, no matter what.


You can't fight like that, so you'll need to turn it off in a brawl
For Snipers, it's probably not worth the cost. A single ECM node will do the same thing until 360M (currently 200M), Dorito Removal with the Magic Jesus Field

Edited by Mcgral18, 28 April 2017 - 09:22 PM.

[InvictusLee]

Lukoi Banacek, on 28 April 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Well we don't know how they're going to implement it really, but tbh I lock on every target I shoot at. I think most players who do well in this game, tend to target (press R) because it helps tell you where to shoot. Sometimes the damage isn't obvious enough, or a leg is light on armor etc. Targeting helps a ton with that.

Touche. I lock every target as a force of habit from running a lrm boat ebj until i had enough cbills to buy my orion lol.

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 April 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

Actually there are invisibility systems in Battletech, in the past and future. Look to the Raptor II (one of my favorite mechs) as an example of said tech. Now, stealth armor has a plus, in that a lot of players are incapable of seeing mechs without a dorito over it, but, it has another bonus with seismic sensors being locked away and many people not wanting to invest the skill points for it with the upcoming skill tree, it will be easier to sneak around, being unable to differentiate the mech from terrain via heat vision or night vision is nice, no seismic giving you away is pretty nice too. The main thing is, Stealth Armor weighs the same as standard armor so it isn't going to take up more mass to slap on your mech, which is a plus, but, it needs 2 slots in your arms, legs, and side torsos to put it on.

I personally would like if it negated heat loss by a fixed amount so if you oversinked you still could slowly cool off while it was active, or it kept you from cooling at all instead of generating heat on it's own, would be a bit more valuable. Not being able to have my ECM be disrupted by taking a PPC shot? Pretty nice honestly, could save my butt, but, not super useful. Honestly, it will be a super niche system that I am going to try out on my Phoenix Hawk 1b, but, I doubt I really will like because on tabletop it is useful, enemies got a +1 on medium range to hit, and +2 on long range (so instead of needing a 7 to hit with a medium range weapon it is a 8 or higher, and for a long range it is a 9 or higher) where it is actually useful. MWO, eh, not as much, but, at least it just eats up slots and not tonnage, not that ferro gives much tonnage back at the weight brackets that stealth armor would be your first inclination to throw it on a mech (like a ton or so).

But, I do press R to get target info so I know where the enemy is weak so I can hammer that part and hopefully weaken or cripple them.

Well said. My thoughts are actually similar to yours: the heat thing has to go or have the ability to be negated. The heat generation from firing 1 ppc shot is punishing enough on its own lol. I'd love to have the raptor 2 in game! On a side note: All this talk of stealth armor has me thinking of the Spector and Exterminator battlemech from the novels. Both are starleague tech and way wayyy OP. Haha.

Khobai, on 28 April 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

well all they have to do is take stealth off ecm, get rid of the stealth bubble, and put it on stealth armor instead

ecm should NEVER have granted stealth or stealth bubble to begin with. its always been bad for the game and its hurt weapons like LRMs far more than what was necessary. the only source of stealth should be stealth armor and it should only stealth you not teammates.

and the main issue with radar derp is that it completely negates targeting decay. radar derp should be reduced by targeting decay instead of negating it completely.

Its actually suprising that ECM isnt more potent in game.

[Requiemking]

November11th, on 28 April 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

Touche. I lock every target as a force of habit from running a lrm boat ebj until i had enough cbills to buy my orion lol.


Well said. My thoughts are actually similar to yours: the heat thing has to go or have the ability to be negated. The heat generation from firing 1 ppc shot is punishing enough on its own lol. I'd love to have the raptor 2 in game! On a side note: All this talk of stealth armor has me thinking of the Spector and Exterminator battlemech from the novels. Both are starleague tech and way wayyy OP. Haha.

Its actually suprising that ECM isnt more potent in game.

Yes, but unfortunately those two probably won't make it in, since PGI is all uppity about "Original variants", and since the OG versions of both those mechs use Nullsig systems and Chameleon, they probably won't be coming.

[Khobai]

Quote

Its actually suprising that ECM isnt more potent in game.

it used to be much stronger, they nerfed it pretty heavily. but its the principle that ecm shouldnt grant stealth and only stealth armor should grant stealth

[Shifty McSwift]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 April 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

Hilariously I use Radar derp on my ECM mechs for when I get hit with PPC's I still just vanish just for that extra frustration that even though they popped my ECM they still don't get to keep me from hiding. Very happy to see radar derp and Seismic changing, radar derp more so was far too strong and has been, was the first module I unlocked when I started, first module I bought due to how strong it is.

Countless games ending with an ECM radar dep light fading in and out of temporal reality like some kind of magical ninja mech. >.<

[InvictusLee]

Requiemking, on 28 April 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Yes, but unfortunately those two probably won't make it in, since PGI is all uppity about &quot;Original variants&quot;, and since the OG versions of both those mechs use Nullsig systems and Chameleon, they probably won't be coming.

Yeah, I've been playing since launch. I'm actually suprised by the intense lack of starleague mechs. Want a Kodiak that can punch things before the kodiak existed and is still better in everyway? The Pillager is your answer. :3

[Requiemking]

Khobai, on 28 April 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

it used to be much stronger, they nerfed it pretty heavily. but its the principle that ecm shouldnt grant stealth and only stealth armor should grant stealth

Even then, Stealth armor isn't perfect either, as it takes up crits all over the mech. No, the best stealth system in all of Battletech was the Null Signature System, or Nullsig. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get it, as in order to break it we would need to have the Bloodhound Active Probe.

Shifty McSwift, on 28 April 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

Countless games ending with an ECM radar dep light fading in and out of temporal reality like some kind of magical ninja mech. >.<

Now imagine if that Light was a Star League-era Spector equipped with functional Nullsig and Chameleon. You would never touch that mech.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

I think you guys are underestimating the effect of this on group play. Imagine fighting a team of identical mechs all equipped with stealth armor. Suddenly it becomes significantly harder to call targets and focus the group's fire when no mech has an A/B/C/D on them. Meanwhile the side with stealth armor can still call targets by mech type if the team they are opposing is fielding a variety of builds.

[InvictusLee]

Requiemking, on 28 April 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

Even then, Stealth armor isn't perfect either, as it takes up crits all over the mech. No, the best stealth system in all of Battletech was the Null Signature System, or Nullsig. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get it, as in order to break it we would need to have the Bloodhound Active Probe.
Now imagine if that Light was a Star League-era Spector equipped with functional Nullsig and Chameleon. You would never touch that mech.

BUT BRO. IT WOULD BE GLORIOUS. Last man matches, where your entire team dies/gets rolled because they suck, might have hope of a complete turn around and over turn of what would otherwise be a locust/raven/artic cheeta/cicada running for its life for five minutes around the map before its legged and shot to death. Think of the posibility!

[Ausajax]

I wonder if this will be helpful for sneaking around during scouting in FW. I know a lot of the time I detect mechs before I see them.

[MechaBattler]

They said the stealth armor would also make you invisible to thermal imaging. Not sure if that applies to night vision.

For as much as that will matter since people vote for the same easy visibility shet maps. Seriously I'm so sick and tired of everyone whining about visibility.

[L1f3H4ck]

Steath Armor is made for the Pirate's Bane.

If you use all hardpoints, ECM and even a single slot of ammo, you end up with 13 free slots, unless you want to run single heatsinks. You don't want to run single heatsinks. So no room for Ferro, but enough room for Stealth Armor.