39 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. How would you rate each tree compared to the others and what is your optimal path for your mechs? PGI may force us to waste a few nodes but we WILL min/max with what we have! It'll be less than optimal, but it's not impossible!

[ScrapIron Prime]

I like the fact that you can get 60 percent Radar Derp plus both Seismic for only 12 points on that table.

I'll take a munchkin / rules lawyer look at the system after its final release, but at this point i think armor and structure is the least efficient use of points.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 30 April 2017 - 08:19 AM.

[B0oN]

Sorry, but those skillings will be my little secrets

[Dogstar]

The Shortbus, on 30 April 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

Sorry, but those skillings will be my little secrets

Not for long, someone will soon point out what the meta choice is

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i wasnt in long enough, but can you take ecm nodes without an ecm mech? didnt seem to allow it on a mauler.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Gorantir, on 30 April 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

i wasnt in long enough, but can you take ecm nodes without an ecm mech? didnt seem to allow it on a mauler.

I belive you're correct. You cannot select an ECM skill on a non ECM mech.

[cazidin]

For those who wish to join me in theory-crafting, here's a link that'll let you build without having to be on the PTS.

https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/

I put points into Firepower (25), Agility (No Speed Tweak and minus 1 Arm Pitch), Mech Operations (No speed retention) and Sensor Systems. (Target Info Gathering 5, Sensor Range 2 and Target Decay 3). I'm very tempted to sacrifice a point somewhere for advanced zoom, and this is just a preliminary build.

[Dogstar]

Advanced zoom is a noob trap, as far as I know it should only be bought on very specific sniper builds because the transition between the modes and the shakiness of the mini window actually makes it harder to aim at anything that isn't stationary

[Vxheous]

Dogstar, on 30 April 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Advanced zoom is a noob trap, as far as I know it should only be bought on very specific sniper builds because the transition between the modes and the shakiness of the mini window actually makes it harder to aim at anything that isn't stationary

I like using Advanced zoom, and I am definitely not a noob

[B0oN]

Dogstar, on 30 April 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

Not for long, someone will soon point out what the meta choice is

And then there´ll be crazy people like me that look at what "meta" is, blatantly ignore it and still be successful .

[cazidin]

The Shortbus, on 30 April 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

And then there´ll be crazy people like me that look at what "meta" is, blatantly ignore it and still be successful .

Perhaps, but every reasonable build will be considered. Keeping your personal ideas secret only delays us discovering the same or a similar skill path. Why not be one of the first to suggest it?

[DaZur]

Min/max and the inferred top tier meta that will follow is an inevitable outcome... It's unavoidable.

Any argument to the contrary is at best wishful thinking.

[Garfuncle]

I think there will definitely be winners and losers in terms of individual tree types, but there won't be one cookie cutter setup that fits all mechs. For example, an SRM brawler will want the survival and mobility trees maximized for the armor, speed, and torso twist to survive brawls. An energy boat will want to prioritize heat and then weapon skills to maximize the potential of each and every consecutive alpha. Then you have specific mechs that are very unique. With my Gargoyle I won't be putting much into mobility outside of torso twist and will forgo speed tweak due to the Gargoyle's amazing base speed. Then I will go as much as I can into armor and energy trees to maximize my 12spl build.

[VanillaG]

DaZur, on 30 April 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Min/max and the inferred top tier meta that will follow is an inevitable outcome... It's unavoidable.

Any argument to the contrary is at best wishful thinking.

The big change is that there will not be not much difference between ultimate min/max and 90% min/max. The big reason is that each of the nodes is such a small amount there is not that big a of "penalty" from straying from the meta builds.

[DaZur]

VanillaG, on 30 April 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

The big change is that there will not be not much difference between ultimate min/max and 90% min/max. The big reason is that each of the nodes is such a small amount there is not that big a of "penalty" from straying from the meta builds.

True. The new STree also allows a bit more granular control for non-meta humpers to actually tweak builds to be role-specific.

IMHO this is where the STree will shine... Folks will be less inclined to model after the top-tier meta and potentially be a bit more unique to their individual playstyle.

[cazidin]

DaZur, on 30 April 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

True. The new STree also allows a bit more granular control for non-meta humpers to actually tweak builds to be role-specific.

IMHO this is where the STree will shine... Folks will be less inclined to model after the top-tier meta and potentially be a bit more unique to their individual playstyle.

You're partly correct but, meta builds for X scenario will form and people will copy that to their build. There will ALWAYS be an optimal path, or the build/loadout itself will be suboptimal or a niche and that's fine. It's better to design with that in mind and offer multiple competitive paths than rotate the meta out every few months.

[DaZur]

cazidin, on 30 April 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

You're partly correct but, meta builds for X scenario will form and people will copy that to their build. There will ALWAYS be an optimal path, or the build/loadout itself will be suboptimal or a niche and that's fine. It's better to design with that in mind and offer multiple competitive paths than rotate the meta out every few months.

Oh, no doubt... It's human nature to meta.

That said, with the inherent design of the new Skill Tree (web), folks have more opportunity to diverge from the meta in the name of individuality.

The current skill tree and quirks is fairly linear and there is nearly zero opportunity for divergence.

Edited by DaZur, 30 April 2017 - 01:55 PM.

[B0oN]

cazidin, on 30 April 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

Perhaps, but every reasonable build will be considered. Keeping your personal ideas secret only delays us discovering the same or a similar skill path. Why not be one of the first to suggest it?

Staying ahead of the pack
Also, I´d like people all around to get more creative with their tinkerings, instead of relying on somebody telling others what to do, or what turns out as efficient .
Has quite interesting side-fx, this poking people´s brains to think outside of the box, or even creating a new box that works besides the all-around accepted "meta" .

Example ?
My original username is/was Rad Hanzo .
I changed it to B0oN with the sole intention of introducing a rather unassuming brainchild of mine to the "meta", the SMN-Prime with 2 ERPPC´s, TC7 and 4 additional DHS .
I drove this mech for over 3 months exclusively in QP, and always as first mech in CW/FP games .
Ups, all of a sudden the SMN was not only viable, no, people claimed it even was OP, mainly due to the combination of quirked mechspeed, quirked erppc velocity(+ the TC7 in it ... DAT ERPPC SPEED <3 ) and heat and it´s very good jumping capabilities, not because I´m such a monstruous player .

I´d really love to see other mechs that are viewed as "non-competetive" to have a miraculous rebirth due to some crazy dude having an awesomely working idea .

Now, to end this :
Rest assured, as soon as I find something hilariously stupid-crazy, that still works, I shall go forth and preach it to the choir .
Sadly I haven´t really had any games on the PTS, except for a small 1vs1 session that lasted 5 or 6 rounds in which I tested some of the builds I already had skilled up (thanks again Palfatreos, your help and input is very appreciated! Further thanks to Ilya Markelov for the invite to 1vs1 !) .

Edited by The Shortbus, 30 April 2017 - 04:18 PM.

[cazidin]

The Shortbus, on 30 April 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Staying ahead of the pack
Also, I´d like people all around to get more creative with their tinkerings, instead of relying on somebody telling others what to do, or what turns out as efficient .
Has quite interesting side-fx, this poking people´s brains to think outside of the box, or even creating a new box that works besides the all-around accepted "meta" .

Example ?
My original username is/was Rad Hanzo .
I changed it to B0oN with the sole intention of introducing a rather unassuming brainchild of mine to the "meta", the SMN-Prime with 2 ERPPC´s, TC7 and 4 additional DHS .
I drove this mech for over 3 months exclusively in QP, and always as first mech in CW/FP games .
Ups, all of a sudden the SMN was not only viable, no, people claimed it even was OP, mainly due to the combination of quirked mechspeed, quirked erppc velocity(+ the TC7 in it ... DAT ERPPC SPEED <3 ) and heat and it´s very good jumping capabilities, not because I´m such a monstruous player .

I´d really love to see other mechs that are viewed as "non-competetive" to have a miraculous rebirth due to some crazy dude having an awesomely working idea .

Now, to end this :
Rest assured, as soon as I find something hilariously stupid-crazy, that still works, I shall go forth and preach it to the choir .
Sadly I haven´t really had any games on the PTS, except for a small 1vs1 session that lasted 5 or 6 rounds in which I tested some of the builds I already had skilled up (thanks again Palfatreos, your help and input is very appreciated! Further thanks to Ilya Markelov for the invite to 1vs1 !) .

I understand. Part of the reason for this thread is to encourage people to try new builds/skill paths and to see what does work with it, what doesn't and why.

[Vxheous]

The Shortbus, on 30 April 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Staying ahead of the pack
Also, I´d like people all around to get more creative with their tinkerings, instead of relying on somebody telling others what to do, or what turns out as efficient .
Has quite interesting side-fx, this poking people´s brains to think outside of the box, or even creating a new box that works besides the all-around accepted "meta" .

Example ?
My original username is/was Rad Hanzo .
I changed it to B0oN with the sole intention of introducing a rather unassuming brainchild of mine to the "meta", the SMN-Prime with 2 ERPPC´s, TC7 and 4 additional DHS .
I drove this mech for over 3 months exclusively in QP, and always as first mech in CW/FP games .
Ups, all of a sudden the SMN was not only viable, no, people claimed it even was OP, mainly due to the combination of quirked mechspeed, quirked erppc velocity(+ the TC7 in it ... DAT ERPPC SPEED <3 ) and heat and it´s very good jumping capabilities, not because I´m such a monstruous player .

I´d really love to see other mechs that are viewed as "non-competetive" to have a miraculous rebirth due to some crazy dude having an awesomely working idea .

Now, to end this :
Rest assured, as soon as I find something hilariously stupid-crazy, that still works, I shall go forth and preach it to the choir .
Sadly I haven´t really had any games on the PTS, except for a small 1vs1 session that lasted 5 or 6 rounds in which I tested some of the builds I already had skilled up (thanks again Palfatreos, your help and input is very appreciated! Further thanks to Ilya Markelov for the invite to 1vs1 !) .

The summoner became OP because the loyalty Summoner provided two high torso mounts to couple with the ERPPC quirks that it already had, which got nerfed. It was fairly balanced when you could only shoot ERPPC's out of the low arms.