39 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

On the PTS I made a bit of a "skewed" MDD ...

6 SRM6 Artemis, 2MGs, skilled towards -SRM spread, +ammocount, heavy +armour, heavy +internals, some mobility and sensors .
Runs very cold, and holy cow ... those wicked tight SRM groupings ... I just wowed .

Or a "pimped" laservomit EBJ 2CLPL 6CERmeds, some laserskills (without "dead/useless" nodes), hefty internals and light movement and medium sensorpack, but the icing on that particular one is that it carries 2 +50%boosted Coolshots (-54 points of heat IIRC ... and THAT is wicked sick^^) and an UAV for the odd corner-camper detection funsies.

Vxheous ?
That loyalty SMN came after my funsies with the SMN Prime(I) .
And to this day I still prefer the Prime over the Loyalty, just because I despise those EZ-mode highmounts

Edited by The Shortbus, 30 April 2017 - 04:41 PM.

[cazidin]

The Shortbus, on 30 April 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

On the PTS I made a bit of a "skewed" MDD ...

6 SRM6 Artemis, 2MGs, skilled towards -SRM spread, +ammocount, heavy +armour, heavy +internals, some mobility and sensors .
Runs very cold, and holy cow ... those wicked tight SRM groupings ... I just wowed .

Or a "pimped" laservomit EBJ 2CLPL 6CERmeds, some laserskills (without "dead/useless" nodes), hefty internals and light movement and medium sensorpack, but the icing on that particular one is that it carries 2 +50%boosted Coolshots (-54 points of heat IIRC ... and THAT is wicked sick^^) and an UAV for the odd corner-camper detection funsies.

Vxheous ?
That loyalty SMN came after my funsies with the SMN Prime(I) .
And to this day I still prefer the Prime over the Loyalty, just because I despise those EZ-mode highmounts

That's actually something I was curious about. Does the heavier armor and internals feel good? Are they a solid alternative to mobility quirks? Looking at the raw numbers, they look underwhelming, but might work a lot better in the game.

[Zergling]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 30 April 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

I like using Advanced zoom, and I am definitely not a noob

Same here, I use Advanced Zoom on everything but brawlers.

Always been a big user of zoom scopes and modes in action games, probably because I'm terrible at making out small objects on my screen.

[B0oN]

cazidin, on 30 April 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

That's actually something I was curious about. Does the heavier armor and internals feel good? Are they a solid alternative to mobility quirks? Looking at the raw numbers, they look underwhelming, but might work a lot better in the game.

As I said, I sadly only had a few 1vs1´s with Mr. Markelov in which I tested : Sarah Jenner with 4MPL, HBR with 2LPL4ERMed, GRF 2N with 4 SRM6artemis .
Unfortunately I couldn´t test that MDD (but those armour and internal values did look impressive on the sum-up in the mechlab), or did I (Ilya, HALP PLOX !!!)???
I can´t remember for sure, I was drinking quite heavily those last few days (musicians^^), so it´s kind of a blur

But, honestly : I´m ITCHING to see the skilltree going live and test the everliving hankypank out of it .

Edited by The Shortbus, 30 April 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[cazidin]

The Shortbus, on 30 April 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

As I said, I sadly only had a few 1vs1´s with Mr. Markelov in which I tested : Sarah Jenner with 4MPL, HBR with 2LPL4ERMed, GRF 2N with 4 SRM6artemis .
Unfortunately I couldn´t test that MDD, or did I (Ilya, HALP PLOX !!!)? I can´t remember for sure, I was drinking quite heavily those last few days, so it´s kind of a blur

But, honestly : I´m ITCHING to see the skilltree going live and test the everliving hankypank out of it .

I'd gladly join you for some testing. Again, I like to theorycraft from the numbers I have but also try out new builds for myself to see how they work. I sometimes use the meta as a foundation to build upon, but I like to then make tweaks to suit my playstyle.

[B0oN]

#turning meta on it´s head and seeing if it still runs

[Marius Romanis]

Dogstar, on 30 April 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Advanced zoom is a noob trap, as far as I know it should only be bought on very specific sniper builds because the transition between the modes and the shakiness of the mini window actually makes it harder to aim at anything that isn't stationary

Get a mouse with adjustable sensitivity noob

[Vxheous]

CadoAzazel, on 30 April 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

Get a mouse with adjustable sensitivity noob

Don't even need to do that, tracking with advanced zoom at 800dpi and 0.17 has always worked for me. Only downside of advanced zoom is that it can create tunnel vision if you stay in it for extended periods of time, but I have a habit of constantly switching back and forth between advanced zoom and regular zoom 2x+ for awareness. Also, if you haven't bound max zoom as zoom toggle, you should (not you Cado, just in general), since the intermediate zoom is pretty much useless.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 01 May 2017 - 07:38 AM.

[Zergling]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 01 May 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

Don't even need to do that, tracking with advanced zoom at 800dpi and 0.17 has always worked for me. Only downside of advanced zoom is that it can create tunnel vision if you stay in it for extended periods of time, but I have a habit of constantly switching back and forth between advanced zoom and regular zoom 2x+ for awareness. Also, if you haven't bound max zoom as zoom toggle, you should (not you Cado, just in general), since the intermediate zoom is pretty much useless.

Yup, I've bound Toggle Zoom Level 2 to shift, and Toggle Advanced Zoom to F.

Makes it easy to switch between the different zoom modes and unzoomed with single button presses.

[cazidin]

How would each of you rank each tree compared to the other? Are there any that you feel are underwhelming or have too many redundant/bad skill-bumps?

[DjPush]

Why take the fun out of crafting your own skill tree for your own builds? I don't intend to do cookie cutter load-outs on 200 mechs so there is no point in using someone elses ideal set-up. It probably won't work for me. Seriously! Why play a video game if you are just going to cheese the system and copy paste someone elses work?

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[cazidin]

DjPush, on 02 May 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Why take the fun out of crafting your own skill tree for your own builds? I don't intend to do cookie cutter load-outs on 200 mechs so there is no point in using someone elses ideal set-up. It probably won't work for me. Seriously! Why play a video game if you are just going to cheese the system and copy paste someone elses work?

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Is there an argument against collaborating with the community, hearing arguments both for and against X tree and better understanding it's inner workings, maybe even generating constructive critique for PGI to build upon? The lattermost, I acknowledge, is extremely unlikely but, I'm optimistic.

[Khobai]

Quote

Why play a video game if you are just going to cheese the system and copy paste someone elses work?

I think youve missed the point.

If a skill tree is well designed you shouldnt be able to cheese the system in the first place.

You cant min/max if all paths in a skill tree are equal. The problem is this skill tree doesnt give us balanced choices and actually forces us to min/max it intuitively by not wanting to take bad skills walling off other skills.

[Ruar]

Armor quirked mechs will benefit from survival.

If you prefer to move around a lot then mobility is a priority.

I assume everyone will take at least 60% Radar Dep and 100m of Seismic at a minimum. Probably most getting full of each as the sensor range and target decay are a little bit of a force multiplier.

Operations will be a big deal with almost everyone getting maxed cool run.

Firepower will rarely be touched as people realize the change to heat and armor is going to slow down fights enough that a small boost to damage won't matter in the long run. People may get added magazine capacity though since it's going to take a chunk of extra rounds to kill people.

JJ tree will be niche and very much player dependent. Some will want it, most won't.

I see the biggest question becoming a balancing act between sensors/survival/mobility. These three will shift proportionally to mech build. Operations will be used by most everyone while Firepower will have a few bits and pieces taken as leftovers, but won't be a main focus.

What I'm not sure of is how much emphasis people are going to place on auxiliary. I don't see much point in spending 100k+ cbills to win a QP match, but others might stock up for the win. I assume it will have more relevance for competition play.

[cazidin]

Ruar, on 02 May 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Armor quirked mechs will benefit from survival.

If you prefer to move around a lot then mobility is a priority.

I assume everyone will take at least 60% Radar Dep and 100m of Seismic at a minimum. Probably most getting full of each as the sensor range and target decay are a little bit of a force multiplier.

Operations will be a big deal with almost everyone getting maxed cool run.

Firepower will rarely be touched as people realize the change to heat and armor is going to slow down fights enough that a small boost to damage won't matter in the long run. People may get added magazine capacity though since it's going to take a chunk of extra rounds to kill people.

JJ tree will be niche and very much player dependent. Some will want it, most won't.

I see the biggest question becoming a balancing act between sensors/survival/mobility. These three will shift proportionally to mech build. Operations will be used by most everyone while Firepower will have a few bits and pieces taken as leftovers, but won't be a main focus.

What I'm not sure of is how much emphasis people are going to place on auxiliary. I don't see much point in spending 100k+ cbills to win a QP match, but others might stock up for the win. I assume it will have more relevance for competition play.

But how much survival? If you're only gaining 8-12 HP total, is it worth the almost 30 point investment? Or the crit chance reduction?

[Ruar]

cazidin, on 03 May 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

But how much survival? If you're only gaining 8-12 HP total, is it worth the almost 30 point investment? Or the crit chance reduction?

That's why I said most people will be looking for a balance between those three items. On my Enforcer I'd probably go higher survival than my Assassin. Rougneck and Marauder I'm maxing survival and not worrying about firepower at all.

What's sad is we have a brand new skill tree and already the customization options are whittled down because of poor implementation.

[Wattila]

Ruar, on 02 May 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Firepower will rarely be touched as people realize the change to heat and armor is going to slow down fights enough that a small boost to damage won't matter in the long run. People may get added magazine capacity though since it's going to take a chunk of extra rounds to kill people.

Dunno about that, -15% laser duration for 13 points sounds pretty good to me if you're boating lasers of the non-pulse variety. Also +3% range included with 3% more available for 2 points, not much waste there.

But yeah, if you consider full speed tweak/cool run/radar derp/seismic your baseline, you've already spent 58 points (or 61 if you also max heat containment and target retention). That leaves you 30 points or so to further customize your mech, not really that much choice in the tree when you think it that way.

[Ruar]

Wattila, on 03 May 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Dunno about that, -15% laser duration for 13 points sounds pretty good to me if you're boating lasers of the non-pulse variety. Also +3% range included with 3% more available for 2 points, not much waste there.

But yeah, if you consider full speed tweak/cool run/radar derp/seismic your baseline, you've already spent 58 points (or 61 if you also max heat containment and target retention). That leaves you 30 points or so to further customize your mech, not really that much choice in the tree when you think it that way.

I assume people who want more firepower won't really worry about speed tweak. And Laser duration is probably the best part of the firepower tree but we know they are changing firepower so that may not hold on release. 3% range doesn't really mean much, 30m if your weapon goes 1000m. Even 6% isn't that much really considering they got rid of a lot of range quirks and the 10% module so what used to be 15-20% range is now less than 10%.

I figure the first few weeks we'll see people getting max survival, max radar dep, a bunch of firepower and then struggling with heat. Slowly it will shift to less firepower more heat control. We'll also see a shift away from laser boats and more mixed builds or more dakka builds. We'll probably see a lot more dual LB10 builds as well. I'm not sure how people will look at cool run. I think it's a must but someone else might just be content to switch to guass rifles or other low heat weapons instead.

[Wattila]

One would have to be silly not to pick speed tweak after the engine decouple, it's basically free tonnage since you can get away with a smaller engine if you want to. Same with cool running, basically free heat sinks there if you need them. The stuff in sensor tree is also much better for keeping you alive compared to couple % of armor.

To me, the armor tree looks like a place to dump your remaining points, and even then there's a lot of filler you cannot avoid there (shock absorb, reinforced casing, ams overload, are those any good?). And even then I'd feel more inclined to put the points in agility to help me twist better - or avoid damage altogether. Depends on the mech, of course.

And it's not just the lasers in the weapons tree, you can pick up +10.5% range, +10% velocity, -4.5% cooldown, -3% heat gen and +2 ammo for 22 points, again zero waste there. Helps a lot with trading. Gauss/PPC anyone?

[Dracol]

I think my Invasion Puma (Adder) build would qualify for the OP's premise. It runs 3 LRM10s and a LRM5, and runs with a LRM10 cool down mod so that it fires nearly in sync with the LRM5.

With the SkillTree, I was able to pick up the ammo nodes, drop a little bit of ammo, and upgrade the LRM10. Same total potential damage output as before, but with a 14% better Alpha Strike and no cooldown discrepancy.

Edited by Dracol, 03 May 2017 - 06:11 PM.