21 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

A lot is made about the stride of various mechs, which sometimes can be out of sync, or odd looking.

But I have always felt that a big part of that is how exaggerated the hip and leg action can be..... but from the waist up.... they are monolithic and immobile.

Not only would arm bounce and sway be IRL from a physics standpoint of these mechs (and help protect delicate focal lenses from jarring, etc), but part of bipedal balance comes from arm movement. It would significantly reduce gyro load.......

But most importantly... it would simply LOOK better. (it's one of the things that for instance, titanfall 2, does beautifully, IMO)

Basically, lose the stiff, 90 degree angle to the arm positions, and add some motion. Please?

[EAP10]

I agree. I've always found it weird when my Jaeger's arms just remain motionless while moving about. Be a nice immersive thing for them to fix.

[Bishop Steiner]

EAP10, on 30 April 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

I agree. I've always found it weird when my Jaeger's arms just remain motionless while moving about. Be a nice immersive thing for them to fix.

Yeah. Obviously we want balance and all that to be focus... but I find if a game is immersive and visually pleasing enough? People seem willing to forgive a lot of sins. Maybe less so in the cutting edges of competitive play, understandably, but for the great unwashed? Pretty counts, lol.

[Mcgral18]

Some move, some don't


Spider 5K is almost painful to see
Absolutely static arms (relative)

[EAP10]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

Yeah. Obviously we want balance and all that to be focus... but I find if a game is immersive and visually pleasing enough? People seem willing to forgive a lot of sins. Maybe less so in the cutting edges of competitive play, understandably, but for the great unwashed? Pretty counts, lol.

Kind of related, what if VR is integrated into the game?
I wish it wouldn't mess with aiming at all, but you could just look around your cockpit with ease, kind of like free look now, but not slaved to the arms.
It'd be amazing to lean forward a little in your cockpit to look out a side window, and actually feel like the pilot for once.

[Shifty McSwift]

Perhaps what you see as not moving arm weapon crosshairs is due to advanced stabilisers and synchronised targeting systems maintaining that convergence of fire no matter which position the mech is currently in.

Edit; ahh damn you just meant the animation. silly me.

[dimachaerus]

Most mechs look like they're walking around after having "disgraced" themselves on the way to the bathroom. There's also the fact that running, is just sped up walking, which looks, well, idiotic. A locust at full tilt should be leaping across the terrain like a gazelle, instead if thrashed around like a spastic squirrel high on speed and having a seizure.

That's one area in which mechwarrior 4 absolutely destroys MWO, and even MW:LL had a full run/walk cycle, if not the full arm swing.

[Imperius]

Unreal Engine required I'll bet.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 30 April 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Some move, some don't


Spider 5K is almost painful to see
Absolutely static arms (relative)

a lot have those utterly static arms, and it's pretty terrible

Shifty McSwift, on 30 April 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Perhaps what you see as not moving arm weapon crosshairs is due to advanced stabilisers and synchronised targeting systems maintaining that convergence of fire no matter which position the mech is currently in.

Edit; ahh damn you just meant the animation. silly me.

Indeed... while I would like some reticle bounce whilst moving, this thread is purely aesthetic, lol.

[Cabusha]

EAP10, on 30 April 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

I agree. I've always found it weird when my Jaeger's arms just remain motionless while moving about. Be a nice immersive thing for them to fix.

I remember they used to move on release. I really don't remember when they reverted that. Probably the same time they stopped the UAC-5 for the IS from spinning, or the AC-2 and AC-5 from recoiling. A lot of the visual appeal of this game has been lost.

[Jingseng]

bear in mind, the way they are modeled in game, arms absolutely should not bounce. They are not gimballed ball joints. They are static rotators. Arm bounce would mean something very, very broken with your mech since it is not a biological being and those parts are meant to be rigid.

It'd be like expecting the wings of an airplane to flap.

Not a perfect analogy because of the physics and constructional geometry involved, but while the wings of an airplane do, at the tips, move somewhat, 'bounce' would mean severe structural damage to the wing.

[Khobai]

yeah arms definitely should not bounce

it would be like a tank driving and having its turret flop around left and right every time it turns

Quote

while the wings of an airplane do, at the tips, move somewhat, 'bounce' would mean severe structural damage to the wing.

I guess birds have severe structural damage then lol

Edited by Khobai, 01 May 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jingseng, on 01 May 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

bear in mind, the way they are modeled in game, arms absolutely should not bounce. They are not gimballed ball joints. They are static rotators. Arm bounce would mean something very, very broken with your mech since it is not a biological being and those parts are meant to be rigid.

It'd be like expecting the wings of an airplane to flap.

Not a perfect analogy because of the physics and constructional geometry involved, but while the wings of an airplane do, at the tips, move somewhat, 'bounce' would mean severe structural damage to the wing.

The don't need gimballed balled joints, although actually that is what many essentially DO have for shoulders if you examine them.

Khobai, on 01 May 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

yeah arms definitely should not bounce

it would be like a tank driving and having its turret flop around left and right every time it turns



I guess birds have severe structural damage then lol

tanks don't use arms to increase stability. Bipeds do.

also refer back to OP...rule of cool. Simply put, they look stiff and stupid, as is.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 May 2017 - 01:15 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Who needs arm-bounce, when you can have quadrupeds instead?!

No need for arm-bouncing if you don't have arms!

[Khobai]

Quote

tanks don't use arms to increase stability. Bipeds do.

mechs dont use arms to increase stability either though. they use gyros for that.

humans dont have gyros though thats why we have to use our arms to help with balance instead. but mechs are not humans. mechs use gyros. humans use arms. see the difference?

mechs use arms like tanks use turrets... to mount weapons on and have those weapons be able to fire in different arcs. and some mechs have hands so they can climb, lift things, grab on to things, etc...

so yeah arms should not bounce. they have absolutely nothing to do with keeping a mech stable or balanced.


however I am all for having knockdowns readded with a gyro gauge for how unstable your mech is. and if you your mech gets too unstable it risks overwhelming your gyro and knocking you down.

Quote

also refer back to OP...rule of cool. Simply put, they look stiff and stupid, as is.

except having to rig animations for every single pair of arms on every single mech is a complete waste of PGI's resources when theres dozens of other things that should take priority.

Like readding knockdowns for example. Thats way more important than bouncing arms. Knockdowns were awesome and paul being a crybaby and removing them was one of PGIs biggest mistakes.

Edited by Khobai, 01 May 2017 - 02:14 AM.

[BumbleBee]

actually humans do have gyro type senses

[Arctourus]

I'd like to see the arm movement as well as have it impact aiming. A lot of shooters, and in many ways MWO is a shooter, make movement affect (effect?) aiming. It might go a long way towards realism to see movement giving our aim a similar but lessened drawback like the jump jet shake.

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

A lot is made about the stride of various mechs, which sometimes can be out of sync, or odd looking.

But I have always felt that a big part of that is how exaggerated the hip and leg action can be..... but from the waist up.... they are monolithic and immobile.

Not only would arm bounce and sway be IRL from a physics standpoint of these mechs (and help protect delicate focal lenses from jarring, etc), but part of bipedal balance comes from arm movement. It would significantly reduce gyro load.......

But most importantly... it would simply LOOK better. (it's one of the things that for instance, titanfall 2, does beautifully, IMO)

Basically, lose the stiff, 90 degree angle to the arm positions, and add some motion. Please?

I'm ok with that as long as there's a corresponding motion of the weapon impact points too.

[GrimRiver]

I wouldn't mind the arms to bob around but the weapon mount itself would remain still.

Kinda like how you can move a chicken's body around but it's head would remain in the same spot.

(Dang it, it won't let me post a gif of it.)

Edited by GrimRiver, 01 May 2017 - 05:15 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

BumbleBee, on 01 May 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

actually humans do have gyro type senses

Those are fluid based. As far as I'm aware humans don't have any parts that spin at high velocity, if you do you might want to see a doctor for that.