98 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Shifty McSwift, on 02 May 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

You heard it here guys, 95% of builds are going to use the same tree choices, and the best of all is laser vomit, so I guess 95% of the game is going to be laser vomit.

I guess we will have to wait and see if that prediction is true, unless we are taking predictions as data now too?

Did you even look at the skill tree on the PTS?

Did you actually play it? At all? Laser tree gets range, cooldown and burn duration quirks. Also heat generation. With very, very few exceptions energy boats were better on the PTS than on live.

Max all but 2 nodes each in mobility and ops to get your heat control and the speed/mobility to use them, put 19 pts in left side of weapons. I would gleefully take any of my energy boats from post-change and play them in current live. Especially Clan mechs. CERMLs with the burn duration of IS mediums, plus range buffs, heat gen and cooldown quirks?

% reductions favor larger numbers. The longer burn and higher heat of Clan weapons get correspondingly bigger reductions. On the heat management side it was even more noticeable.

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 02 May 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Also I am hearing that the hit registration has no issues, and that MORE tiny frame high armor lights moving over 160kph would be better for all?

Well, judging by your stats on the monthly leaderboards, you're most likely in the category of "those that can't shoot" so it must be HSR.

MischiefSC, on 02 May 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Did you even look at the skill tree on the PTS?

Did you actually play it? At all? Laser tree gets range, cooldown and burn duration quirks. Also heat generation. With very, very few exceptions energy boats were better on the PTS than on live.

Max all but 2 nodes each in mobility and ops to get your heat control and the speed/mobility to use them, put 19 pts in left side of weapons. I would gleefully take any of my energy boats from post-change and play them in current live. Especially Clan mechs. CERMLs with the burn duration of IS mediums, plus range buffs, heat gen and cooldown quirks?

% reductions favor larger numbers. The longer burn and higher heat of Clan weapons get correspondingly bigger reductions. On the heat management side it was even more noticeable.

Also going down the right side of the tree (ignoring gauss charge nodes), PPFLD builds like 2 Gauss/CERPPC will be just as deadly. Potatoes wish for mixed builds, and the tree gives us Laser Vomit and Gauss/PPC poptarting, who'd have thought?

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 02 May 2017 - 11:39 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yawn, back to who stats is deh bester. Good talk guys.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 02 May 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

Well, judging by your stats on the monthly leaderboards, you're most likely in the category of "those that can't shoot" so it must be HSR.



Also going down the right side of the tree (ignoring gauss charge nodes), PPFLD builds like 2 Gauss/CERPPC will be just as deadly. Potatoes wish for mixed builds, and the tree gives us Laser Vomit and Gauss/PPC poptarting, who'd have thought?

Potatoes and Clan Crocodile Tears are the ONLY cheering for the Skill Maze... Potatoes because they are dumb and Clammers cause they love farming Potatoes.

[Shifty McSwift]

MischiefSC, on 02 May 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Did you even look at the skill tree on the PTS?

Did you actually play it? At all? Laser tree gets range, cooldown and burn duration quirks. Also heat generation. With very, very few exceptions energy boats were better on the PTS than on live.

Max all but 2 nodes each in mobility and ops to get your heat control and the speed/mobility to use them, put 19 pts in left side of weapons. I would gleefully take any of my energy boats from post-change and play them in current live. Especially Clan mechs. CERMLs with the burn duration of IS mediums, plus range buffs, heat gen and cooldown quirks?

% reductions favor larger numbers. The longer burn and higher heat of Clan weapons get correspondingly bigger reductions. On the heat management side it was even more noticeable.

Yeah I couldn't get into a match so my testing was restricted to testing grounds, but it doesn't really matter my testing results, I already brought them up before, your response is "there can be only one" and I am wrong and bad, so why bother bringing it up? The difference is I am not making claims or forming opinions like they are fact about what is still questionable and subject to change.

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 02 May 2017 - 11:41 PM, said:

Yeah I couldn't get into a match so my testing was restricted to testing grounds, but it doesn't really matter my testing results, I already brought them up before, your response is "there can be only one" and I am wrong and bad, so why bother bringing it up? The difference is I am not making claims or forming opinions like they are fact about what is still questionable and subject to change.

It's not going to be one single cookie-cutter, but after playing with the different trees and being limited to the 91 choices, there's really going to be 2-3 ways to efficiently use those points. The fact that engine desync makes every mech more sluggish makes the agility tree basically a no-brainer, mech operations for heat efficiency a no-brainer, 4 consumable slots for 2 buffed coolshots and 2 airstrikes a no-brainer, which leaves 20 some odd points to go into either weapons, defense, or sensors. Given that both weapons and straight armor/structure quirks both trump the amount of useless crap to get to radar dep/seismic, it's really two choices: Weapons or Defense.

Not to mention the fact that IS mechs lose all their weapon quirks (that are keeping them viable right now against clan mechs), you actually end up with less diversity of mech choices, and not more. Instead of one Battlemaster having range quirks vs heat gen quirks vs structure quirks, it's going to be do I want the Battlemaster with 4 energy, 5 energy, 6 energy or 7 energy hardpoints ?

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 02 May 2017 - 11:52 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 02 May 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

It's not going to be one single cookie-cutter, but after playing with the different trees and being limited to the 91 choices, there's really going to be 2-3 ways to efficiently use those points. The fact that engine desync makes every mech more sluggish makes the agility tree basically a no-brainer, mech operations for heat efficiency a no-brainer, 4 consumable slots for 2 buffed coolshots and 2 airstrikes a no-brainer, which leaves 20 some odd points to go into either weapons, defense, or sensors. Given that both weapons and straight armor/structure quirks both trump the amount of useless crap to get to radar dep/seismic, it's really two choices: Weapons or Defense.

Not to mention the fact that IS mechs lose all their weapon quirks (that are keeping them viable right now against clan mechs), you actually end up with less diversity of mech choices, and not more.

Suddenly it sounds like the options are more open than previous, and that is taken at your personal meta ideal (as well as "common sense"), and I guess assuming that there will never be any future changes to skill tree numbers?

What happened to 95% and #laservomitbest?

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 02 May 2017 - 11:52 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 May 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

1) Engine Desync - So a KDK-3, Atlas, and King Crab walk into a bar have the same agility...


Well that's just incorrect. The 100 ton class (actually ALL tonnage classes) will have a base agility, which will be modified on a per chassis basis, based on designed role, and yes, by their commentary, to some degree still, engine size.

Usually a bad sign when your first premise out the gate is false. I do hope that is just honest mistake, and not intentional (hard to tell with all the agendas out there these days), but it does not seem to bode well for accuracy of research, either way.

Well, no. Its currently correct - of course, it shouldn't be, but for some reason King Crabs and Atlases both have the same agility stats as the Dire and Kodiak. I dont understand why, because the Battlemaster (correctly) has considerably better agility than the MAD-IIC

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 02 May 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

What happened to 95% and #laservomitbest?

That's Mischief's stance, not mine.

[Kmieciu]

Shifty McSwift, on 02 May 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

You heard it here guys, 95% of builds are going to use the same tree choices, and the best of all is laser vomit, so I guess 95% of the game is going to be laser vomit.

-10% laser duration for c-lpl and c-erml is going to be huge buff for each and every clan chassis.
We're losing cooldown modules and fast fire skill (17% total) and we're getting 7,7-9,9% back with the skill maze. Every DPS build will therefore become weaker compared to high alpha builds.

[Appogee]

Incidentally, remember they said they are moving some nodes around. So none of us have yet seen the final skill tree.

[Shifty McSwift]

Appogee, on 03 May 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

Incidentally, remember they said they are moving some nodes around. So none of us have yet seen the final skill tree.

The skill tree they eventually release to the public server in whichever patch isn't even really the final version of it. The thing is subject to change.

[Dogstar]

With regards to skill tree choices I'm of the opinion that we will end up with only a few variants dependent on weight class and role - there won't be a single 'click it and fix it' meta choice that suits all situations.

e.g. Heavies and Assaults benefit more from armour increases and less from mobility than lights and mediums so there will definitely be a choice between tankiness and agility for many builds

Surprisingly this actually fits PGIs design goal of having to make significant choices - although I'll be impressed if they planned it that way from the beginning, it's more like a coincidence

[Vxheous]

Dogstar, on 03 May 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

With regards to skill tree choices I'm of the opinion that we will end up with only a few variants dependent on weight class and role - there won't be a single 'click it and fix it' meta choice that suits all situations.

e.g. Heavies and Assaults benefit more from armour increases and less from mobility than lights and mediums so there will definitely be a choice between tankiness and agility for many builds

Surprisingly this actually fits PGIs design goal of having to make significant choices - although I'll be impressed if they planned it that way from the beginning, it's more like a coincidence

I'm of the opposite mindset, speed/agility/good hitboxes has always been life in this game, which is why the Timberwolf has been a top mech for so long, despite not having any defensive quirks (or any quirks besides negative ones for that matter). Agility tree > defense tree

[Dogstar]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 May 2017 - 01:41 AM, said:

I'm of the opposite mindset, speed/agility/good hitboxes has always been life in this game, which is why the Timberwolf has been a top mech for so long, despite not having any defensive quirks (or any quirks besides negative ones for that matter). Agility tree > defense tree

You may well be right but I think we'll all have to do a fair bit of trying things out before we can know for sure

[Karl Streiger]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 May 2017 - 01:41 AM, said:

Agility tree > defense tree

plus +
inherit stats from tt & geometry > other trees

very simple - a capable chassis don't need quirks - quirks are today a indicator for the degree of mediocre

armor - help to live longer when you get hit... so 2seconds instead of 1.
agility helps not to get hit or to get hit were it doesn't hurt.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 03 May 2017 - 01:57 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Dogstar, on 03 May 2017 - 01:54 AM, said:

You may well be right but I think we'll all have to do a fair bit of trying things out before we can know for sure

No, we won't.

A small buff to armour but being unable to spread damage/use said armour is going to be redundant before it drops.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 May 2017 - 01:59 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Karl Streiger, on 03 May 2017 - 01:55 AM, said:

armor - help to live longer when you get hit... so 2seconds instead of 1.
agility helps not to get hit or to get hit were it doesn't hurt.

If you went with defensive perks its not like you aren't going to be torso twisting, the extra armor adds to the overall tankiness and may in many situations give you a longer life or save a gun from exploding etc. I agree mobility is an important aspect of survivability, but you are acting like taking the defensive tree means a player will also never twist or dodge fire, which they will.

Plus if your firepower is already reliable, wouldn't mobility + defense be the better choice?

[Karl Streiger]

Shifty McSwift, on 03 May 2017 - 02:19 AM, said:

Plus if your firepower is already reliable, wouldn't mobility + defense be the better choice?

I might take as much mobility and armor I can get - although i should not get both

[Shifty McSwift]

Karl Streiger, on 03 May 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

I might take as much mobility and armor I can get - although i should not get both

No... I totally meant only the ENTIRE trees, you can only take the entire trees or nothing /s

???

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 03 May 2017 - 02:28 AM.