94 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

razenWing, on 02 May 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

"But PGI is going to put heat gen on it... wa wa wa"

No... quite simply, stealth armor would be the most OP thing ever.

First thing first, why is stealth a bad idea? Let's go back to the days of Diablo II. For about a year or two after Lord of Destruction came out, game was great. People were hitting level 92s (anymore or would too much of a grind) with a wide range of build. Then for some, Blizzard introduced immunity.
Now you can't just have an Amazon leading 7 level 1 in Hell Cow Level powering people. Cause... cows might be immune.

Now, let's take that scenario, and rather than cows that's controlled by 20 lines of codes, and replace them with human. Immunity simply does not belong in a first person shooter. I don't know who came up with that idea, but it has to be the most asinine thing in the history of first person shooting.

Look, I get it. Nobody cares about LRMs, and maybe not a lot of people are fond of streaks. But they EXIST and is a huge part of the lore. You can't just completely nullify a weapon system for no raisen.

"BUT THE HEAT!!!"

No.

What people are not outright saying, is that everyone smart (probably including b33f, waiting to make a funny video about it) will just use macro to do a 1/2 second toggle with .2 second activation. Technically, you are activating it for only what... 1% of the time? So there is NO heat build up.

But the result is the same. You will completely murder all locking mechanism. First of all, no matter how much BAP, TAG, TComp you are bringing, there are bound to be locking time. I just have to flash the millisecond toggle to completely wipe your targeting. I don't need to leave it on, and you will NEVER get a lock on me.

Same goes for every other suckers. Do you know how much of an advantage it is to have a permanent disguise of the damage location info?

But hey, macro is not illegal, so go nuts.

(And even if they implement a similar system to the flamer, where toggle require a cooldown timer, that's still fine. I only need microsecond to wipe your targeting. I don't need to have it on all the time. How much heat can I possibly generate from milliseconds? )

And you know why people are not bringing this up? Cause I can guarantee you that almost all meta guys are going to abuse it and make life hell for everyone not in on the scheme. Then maybe after a few month when they get bored, one of them will b7tch about it on the forum and get some kinda weird PGI fix that will undoubtedly pissed off everyone.

So, I ask, why even go there? Of all things that can increase TTK and diversify the game (and I am talking main stream stuff like X-pulse and reactive/reflective armor), why do you implement a "niche" thing that only die-hard lore fans will know/appreciate?

This honestly makes absolutely no sense. Cause permanent immunity to LRM/Streak is just so fair.

So please, PGI. You still have chance to recant this. Like you did with the mini-map resize (yea, I am still keeping score, don't think I forget already). Remove stealth, and give us what we really need (reactive/reflective) armor to break up meta.

(And no, visual is not OP you dumb fool. That's a terrible argument when "paying attention" is your only counter to a game feature eraser.)

Now imagine all of that.. on a LOCUST (shivers)

That thing will be impossible to target, and damn near impossible for a pilot of anything heavier than 60 tons to kill.. so yeah.. like it's not OP enough..

It's enough for a stealth mech to tap its stealth ability on for a millisecond after "incoming missile warning, and my LRM boat is useless.. Now let's say the same mech also has LAMS... and any sort of missiles are completely useless..

Yeah, I don't think this is a good idea.. It's gonna make LRMs even more difficult to use (like it isn't hard enough using them and being good at it).. It's gonna make butt blasting assaults child's play..

Bad bad bad!

[Oldbob10025]

Na some group of players will find a way to use it so its so cheesy and underhanded that the forum warriors will complain and then PGI will scale back the effectiveness of the stealth armor and then it will get nerfed..

I see the future on it.. I for one am so hyped on the civil war items that its going to be fun again making builds based on modes or roles of warfare, instead of just goto point B and shoot then swing around point B and shoot and rush..

[El Bandito]

Oldbob10025, on 03 May 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

Na some group of players will find a way to use it so its so cheesy and underhanded that the forum warriors will complain and then PGI will scale back the effectiveness of the stealth armor and then it will get nerfed..

I see the future on it.. I for one am so hyped on the civil war items that its going to be fun again making builds based on modes or roles of warfare, instead of just goto point B and shoot then swing around point B and shoot and rush..

So how does Stealth armor gonna bring more role warfare, compared to right now? Or even Light Ferro? How are they gonna evolve the gameplay from shooty stompy robots?

Edited by El Bandito, 03 May 2017 - 01:03 AM.

[Ryllen Kriel]

I can't wait to put stealth armour on my Phoenix Hawks so that when they transform into aerospace fighters then...doh! Nevermind...

[Oldbob10025]

El Bandito, on 03 May 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

So how does Stealth armor gonna bring more role warfare, compared to right now? Or even Light Ferro? How are they gonna evolve the gameplay from shooty stompy robots?

More of a scouting missions unlike now where you use a light mech just to run in and gank back LRM users or run in wolf packs.. I myself (not everyone) love the fact now that I can become a real scout and gather information for the team and with a well run group say in faction warfare of some of the other Tier 1 groups out there you can feel like you have a role unlike goto point B etc like every other match out there.

Yes some groups do different things and try new things but lets face it almost everyone nascars on some maps or goto their favorite points this with the new skill tree system will bring some role warfare to the game. I dont like the skill try myself and have some issues with it but every mech cant have all the skills so with over 240 or so nodes and you can only have 91 you can have some roles.. Scout/Assault/gap filler (mediums)/ Support etc. to name a few

To answer you question is that it helps in role warfare for scouts to have stealth armor and with light ferro, although I do agree with you on the light ferro, and have to see more on that and use it to make a valid judgement on light Ferro. but I guess it comes from do people see more to this game that stats?. Do people really have fun in playing roles?

Players that only see the Meta and stats to most games are only interested in just seeing how can it affect the overall effectiveness of their mech and how can they get the most out of anything out there. No Lore, no lets try this but only I have the best mech known to god and i'm the master of the universe. Yes they have fun in what they do and thats alright and fine in what they like. There is a place in all games for players out there.

Players that see fun in playing roles see and imagine the fun in the game. They dont see the meta stats ( I kinda see both I guess) but see other fun in the game in playing a roles such as the Assault mech or the scout mech gather information on the enemy team, or anything they want and its a different play style and thats what they want to play. There is a place for players out there as well.

Just ranting is all its early and getting ready for work LOL anyways have fun El Bandito see you on the field

[El Bandito]

Oldbob10025, on 03 May 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

To answer you question is that it helps in role warfare for scouts to have stealth armor and with light ferro, although I do agree with you on the light ferro, and have to see more on that and use it to make a valid judgement on light Ferro. but I guess it comes from do people see more to this game that stats?. Do people really have fun in playing roles?

Players that see fun in playing roles see and imagine the fun in the game. They dont see the meta stats ( I kinda see both I guess) but see other fun in the game in playing a roles such as the Assault mech or the scout mech gather information on the enemy team, or anything they want and its a different play style and thats what they want to play. There is a place for players out there as well.

Just ranting is all its early and getting ready for work LOL anyways have fun El Bandito see you on the field

Only IS mechs with ECM can equip Stealth Armor, and these scouts, or light mechs are already undetectable except through naked eye by mounting ECM alone. Stealth armor adds very little on top--gives them UAV immunity for example, but scouts would most likely stay out of its range--therefore I am not 100% convinced that it will be worth the removal of FF for those ECM lights.

Another thing; one can't capture base/battery when having the Stealth Armor turned on.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 May 2017 - 01:32 AM.

[Oldbob10025]

Once the armor comes out we shall see the most effective use of it but until it does its all theory crafting at this point. I use UAV's when i'm LRMing on myself sometimes to make sure i'm not going to get jumped by lights. Most of the time in LRM boats i'm on the front line so who knows...

[kutkip]

I think in the dev stream they said friendly mechs also see no information at all. (if i remember correctly?) so i think it will get team killed all the time because people think it's an enemy with ECM hahaha, so no issue there

Edited by kutkip, 03 May 2017 - 01:39 AM.

[El Bandito]

Oldbob10025, on 03 May 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

Once the armor comes out we shall see the most effective use of it but until it does its all theory crafting at this point. I use UAV's when i'm LRMing on myself sometimes to make sure i'm not going to get jumped by lights. Most of the time in LRM boats i'm on the front line so who knows...

Only thing we know are what the devs told us here, and even that can be changed. https://youtu.be/uPEOauKEGhU?t=2712

kutkip, on 03 May 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

I think in the dev stream they said friendly mechs also see no information at all. (if i remember correctly?) so i think it will get team killed all the time because people think it's an enemy with ECM hahaha, so no issue there

Correct. Your allies can easily shoot you by accident.

[Aleski]

What a *****y thread...

Stealth armor will never be OP !
You're afraid of IS light mech with ECM and Stealth Armor ?

So let's made a list, we have :

LCT-PB : it will never use it, cause Locust NEED FF and Endo to work. 12 slots sacrifice, no way.
COM-2D : Same as Locust, plus it doesn't have a lot of weapons options, not really a thread. We never see them today.
SDR-5D : Ho my gosh it has 3 laser HP, does it will be lethal ? Nope never, with stealth maybe it will have a reason to be taken more ?
RVN-3L : Yes you will be able to run a sniper build with stealth armor, but that will sacrifice a lot of speed and heat efficiency. Plus the ennemy Tagger will ruin the strategy anyway. So not a big threat.
Wolfound heroe : it will have some 5xML loadout or something similar to work with the stealth, so not a threat. Same problem as the Raven. If you overheat using Stealth armor, well you're useless.

For the rest of the mech, we have :

Assasin, a mech that really need FF, Endo and big engines to work. So not a huge problem IMO.
CDA-3M : same as assassin. Not really a problem except maybe some snipers build. But Cicada really has crappy hitboxes, all goes to CT, so don't tell me you're crying for a buff for that sup bar mech, don't you ?
Phoenix Hawk : lol, no comment. Firepower of a light and huge as a medium. Yeah that will provide, maybe, a bonus to dat one.
Griffin 2N and new Enforcer heroe : they need a lot fo tonnage and space to work well. So the Stealth armor will be a huge sacrifice of their firepower if they want to use it. Not a big threat for this two chassis.
Tempes and Cataphract : it will be the same problem. That will kill their loadouts and firepower to use the stealth armor. Really. Plus they are big and impossible to miss in a direct view, plus slow heavies.
Cyclops, Stalker and Atlas. Even if someone dare to sacrifice 12 slots to use this equipment, how did they will manage to hide form the view of anyone ? They are 20 meters tall stompy robots ! Come on !

AND the problem is that this equipement requires the huge sacrifice of 12 slots AND bad heat management AND is counter by TAG ? It's really not a problem in my eyes and will be very rarely use after the release. People will toy with it at the beginning, i will test it. And after some drops, they will move on.

What a huge thread for nothing, really...

[Khobai]

what pgi needs to do is completely remove stealth from ecm and then give stealth to stealth armor instead but with no more stealth bubble (only the mech with stealth armor gets stealth). Then stealth would be fine.

And if stealth is limited only to stealth armor. And the stealth bubble is removed. The need to counter it is also significantly reduced. You only need 1-2 counters then instead of as many as we have now.

Quote

AND the problem is that this equipement requires the huge sacrifice of 12 slots AND bad heat management AND is counter by TAG ?

TAG should not counter stealth either. PGI has equipment doing things it should NEVER do. Like ECM giving stealth and TAG countering stealth. Not what that equipment is for.

What TAG should do is guide in ARROW IV strikes and indirect LRMs. Direct LRMs should get a huge direct fire but indirect fire should be nerfed and require TAG/NARC.

The way ARROWIV should work is that it can only be launched at a TAGGED target. The ARROWIV will then fly to the last known location where the target was TAGGED. So a moving target would have to be constantly TAGGED for the ARROWIV to accurately hit it.

Also instead of granting stealth, ECM should get some new abilities, like being able to cut off players from sharing sensor information with their team, and it should get a new mode, unlockable through the skill nodes, called Ghost Mode that creates fake radar signatures. There should also be a decoy probe consumable that you can plant into the ground that does the same thing. And there should also be a seismic probe consumable that you can plant into the ground and detect seismic activity in its radius. Because we need more consumables.

it is incredibly frustrating that they are making stealth armor some kindve super stealth on top of ECM which has been broken since its introduction. They need to shut that **** down and go with my plan instead.

Edited by Khobai, 03 May 2017 - 02:43 AM.

[Kotzi]

There is a counter, called battle awareness. Astonishing how many people only notice enemy mechs when their radar blips.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Yes, under Tier 2 no one can shoot a mech that doesn't have a red dorrito, LOL!

[Khobai]

Quote

Yes, under Tier 2 no one can shoot a mech that doesn't have a red dorrito, LOL!

huh? some people in tier 1 cant even shoot mechs with red doritos

[PyckenZot]

Stealth armor requires ECM. So how what mechs are we talking about here?

LCT-PB, CMD-2D, SDR-5D, RVN-3L, ASN-27, ASN-DD, CDA-3M, PXH-1B, PXH-2, GRF-2N, ARC-T, CTF-0XP, STK-3FB, CP-11-P and the AS7-D-DC.

The lights will lose their FF advantage so will most probably become nothing more than a fast set of eyes with minimal weaponry.

Same goes for the mediums.

The 2 heavies are rarely if ever seen on the battlefield as they are as obsolete as they are easy to kill.

Three assaults will be able to fit SA but these are so big and slow you should be able to lurm them without getting a lock.
=>

Topic seems a non-issue to me.

[Alan Davion]

HGAK47, on 02 May 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

WTF is this incoherent babble op?

It's just Razenwing losing his s*** over something he clearly doesn't understand.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Stealth Armor is super OP because of this:

"Mechs that already have ECM will be able to prevent themselves from glowing White Hot on thermal sensors."

Yup. Stealth Armor, combined with ECM (because ONLY ECM Mechs can use stealth Armor), makes you retain all your heat because it essentially turns your Heatsinks off. You heat up as if you had 0 DHS mounted on your Mech.

Yeah, super OP.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 03 May 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

ice trey, on 02 May 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

While I don't mind the idea of stealth armor, there's really WAY too much in this game as it is that exists to negate LRMs.

I mean, yeah. In the right situation, massed LRMs wreck face, but so much is riding against them now.

Everyone and their mother pack Radar Dep
Everyone and their mother pack ECM
The LRM-improving modules don't do crap to counter either.
It's got that warning claxon
Most cover is made to negate it.
The only way to get a decent lock is for someone to pop a UAV up.
Everyone loves tunnels.

I just wish that they converted LRMs to play more like they do on tabletop, where they're not affected by ECM, they're not anywhere near as well guided as streaks (if guided at all), and indirect fire is WAY less accurate than direct fire. As a direct fire weapon with the option to support indirectly, I think that they'd lose most of the vitriol that they've faced since 2011.

I think ditching the lock-on, removing the guidance, removing the warning, boosting the flight speed, and making the indirect missiles fire at coordinates rather than the mech itself would do worlds to improving gameplay and giving LRM-focused mechs more status than hangar queens that are rendered helpless 9/10 times on the field.

You know that there's nothing stopping you from firing LRMs without a lock, right? Just dead-fire them and the target gets no warning. Sure, they dont track or arc and they take much practice to get dangerous with, but the butthurt it gives to ECM equipped mechs is awesome.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 03 May 2017 - 08:07 AM.

[Rakshasa]

Prosperity Park, on 03 May 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Stealth Armor is super OP because of this:

"Mechs that already have ECM will be able to prevent themselves from glowing White Hot on thermal sensors."

Yup. Stealth Armor, combined with ECM (because ONLY ECM Mechs can use stealth Armor), makes you retain all your heat because it essentially turns your Heatsinks off. You heat up as if you had 0 DHS mounted on your Mech.

Yeah, super OP.

New pilot suit for Stealth Armour mechs confirmed:

[DAYLEET]

With half the people never locking target, weightless radar derp breaking lock, how is stealth armor even needed?