257 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

You bought modules to improve mech performance. This includes sensor upgrades, weapon mods, etc.


You did not buy them as if they were trade bonds. You did not buy modules for the sake of using them as a C-Bill reservoir for later liquidation. You did not buy them for the sake of laundering Cbills and refusing to equip them on your Mechs.

Face it, if you bought modules, it is because you wanted to spend your Cbills on weapon mods, sensor upgrades, etc. If you didn't want these things, you would not have bought those modules.

In exchange for your modules, you are getting skill points that act as weapon mods, sensor upgrades, etc. You are exchanging upgrades for upgrades.

If you are complaining about this, then you have to openly admit that you bought modules for the sole sake of selling them back later, and *not* to equip them on your Mech to improve performance.

I don't think anyone here is that stupid. So, please, drop the act and stop complaining. I know you are not that dumb, I have faith in you.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 26 April 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Well, yes AND NO.

you spent Cbills and XP for a very specific kind of upgrade.
Now they convert into skill points which do not resemple this specific upgrade. Which basically means you bought Tomatoes and someone later exchanged them for carrots.

I did bought them for a very specific mech performance enhancmenet not just any mech performance enhancement as much as I spent 2€ for 1kg tomatoes and not 750g carrots.

Prosperity Park, on 26 April 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

I don't think anyone here is that stupid. So, please, drop the act and stop complaining. I know you are not that dumb, I have faith in you.

I don't think you can be too stupid to understand that one upgrade doesn't equals another upgrade. Especially given that I may not even ever have spent that many of the GXP for mech skills.
Stop trying to suggest others what behavior is stupid because it is very obvious that your idea what happens is not what really happens.

So in the true reverse scenario: If I would still have the money and GXP, I would NOT spent my GXP for the skill upgrades instead I would simply farm some more mech XP to unlock these skills. GXP are basically 10x as much worth as mech XP (irrc 10% of mech XP get granted to GXP). So basically I get force converted my GXP into something I would never have spent them on under the upcoming conditions.

Also, a major differenc eis, a module is a free swapable component, while those converted GXP and Sp means I can spent it ONCE on a SINGLE mech and it is GONE.

I have absolutely no idea how youc an think they convert like you think they do because they are not even remotely close to resembling any of the things you try suggest. All they did is enhance any mech I want with a very specific skill I want at a very specific time I want for not extra costs than some clicks.

Now I get a ONE shot enhancement on ONE mech which isn't even consistent because balance and respecing may make the XP granted form the mdoule beeign wasted should I need to repsec.

Thats like comparing a gold bar with a rotten strawberry. The later can be better than the firts one, but has a lot less uses.

I am actually very amazed how you came up with your actual comparison of things because if your imngame decisions are made equally well informed I don't need to wodner why I see so many strange things others do in MWO. But comparing facts is surely not your stregth. (No insult here, just an observation)

Edited by Lily from animove, 26 April 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[MechaBattler]

They're converting modules into skill points. That's how I see it. So you still get what you had in a fashion. And if it's true that you can sell them half price and still get the GSP. I think that's pretty good.

[Too Much Love]

[Jables McBarty]

Well said OP.

The title was enough.

[Dodger79]

You are right that modules weren't bought as trade bonds. But what you are missing here besides naming it several times: we have bought them. When they are now taken away i want a refund in the currency i bought them for and not some coupons i have no need for.

[Lily from animove]

MechaBattler, on 26 April 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

They're converting modules into skill points. That's how I see it. So you still get what you had in a fashion. And if it's true that you can sell them half price and still get the GSP. I think that's pretty good.

then look again because it's not what you had in fashion.

[MechaBattler]

Lily from animove, on 26 April 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

then look again because it's not what you had in fashion.

You paid for bonuses. And you're still getting bonuses.

[MischiefSC]

So modules were power creep and that power creep is getting rolled back. I bought the TBR at release when it was OP AF. Now it's just really good. I didn't get a refund for that.

The SP conversion is a more fair and generous return than I've gotten on UAC10s or the two Dragon 1Ns sitting worthless in my garage.

I get the rage. I wouldn't complain if PGI went with the cbill refund either - however this isn't bad.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 26 April 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

You bought modules to improve mech performance. This includes sensor upgrades, weapon mods, etc.


You did not buy them as if they were trade bonds. You did not buy modules for the sake of using them as a C-Bill reservoir for later liquidation. You did not buy them for the sake of laundering Cbills and refusing to equip them on your Mechs.

Face it, if you bought modules, it is because you wanted to spend your Cbills on weapon mods, sensor upgrades, etc. If you didn't want these things, you would not have bought those modules.

In exchange for your modules, you are getting skill points that act as weapon mods, sensor upgrades, etc. You are exchanging upgrades for upgrades.

If you are complaining about this, then you have to openly admit that you bought modules for the sole sake of selling them back later, and *not* to equip them on your Mech to improve performance.

I don't think anyone here is that stupid. So, please, drop the act and stop complaining. I know you are not that dumb, I have faith in you.

Sadly, these forums have ever proven that faith in the intelligence of humanity is misplaced.

[Lily from animove]

MechaBattler, on 26 April 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

You paid for bonuses. And you're still getting bonuses.

it's not the same bonuses I paid for, as said I bought tomatoes not carrots, but you are not able to see the difference obviously. Guess telling you is like teaching a blind person about colors.

The module was a bonus to be swapped around at any time for no costs, the new bonus you can buy is a one shot bonus for a single emch. Thats like comparing all you can eat with a single steak. if you hve a limited need for food, you won't see the difference but others may see the possibilities for an all you can eat. But I would surely not pay for an all you can eat that includes just a single steak.

bad unobjective comparison is unobjective. So I guess Bishop and his argument about intelligence is right, some people cannot simply compare facts because they can't even gather comparable facts anymore. Analytical thinking is truly a sparce feature here in the forum.

Edited by Lily from animove, 26 April 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Prosperity Park, on 26 April 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

You bought modules to improve mech performance. This includes sensor upgrades, weapon mods, etc.

I've purchased items with specific set of characteristics, i.e. module that gives set % of improvement and that can be freely moved and used in all of my mechs. I am neither retaining these characteristics with the new system, nor am I getting a refund of what I've spent in order to obtain them.

But please, keep defending blatant scam some more.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lily from animove, on 26 April 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

then look again because it's not what you had in fashion.

Do kindly elucidate for us, the uneducated and unwashed?

To the best of my comprehension, Modules were bonuses, that one had the side benefit of being able to swap from chassis to chassis. Skill Tree is bonuses, that while technically not swappable, are being compensated with enough to fully skill up each chassis twice, on average?

And this was of course, on top of the Basic Skill Tree, which we could not swap, or customize, before.... and which was NOT actually mastered, without using appropriate modules?

So previously, 75% of your bonuses were non transferable, whereas now, you can, if desired, completely remap your skill tree bonuses to your hearts content, and with enough "bonus" points in reserve to swap around however one feels the need to chase the meta of the month?

[Felbombling]

Dodger79, on 26 April 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

You are right that modules weren't bought as trade bonds. But what you are missing here besides naming it several times: we have bought them. When they are now taken away i want a refund in the currency i bought them for and not some coupons i have no need for.

If you were to sell them at ANY point over the last three years, you'd get a 50% return on your investment. Right now, you can choose to sell them for a 50% return on your investment. If you are upset at the proposed refund PGI has put forth, sell them for a 50% return on your investment. I fail to see why anyone is upset with PGI at this point.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

If you want to get specific about it, I bought modules to improve performance on my mastered mechs. I get HSP for my mastered mechs, thus the GSP does not go towards improving the performance of that mech at all.

You know what does improve performance? Being able to buy the new tech when it comes out improves performance of that mech.

This is why I want my cbills back, because GSP provides no bonus to my mastered mechs, it provides a bonus to mechs that I do not own and likely never will.

[the sixth tier]

this is an outrage! i demand you release my c-bills! you can't do this to me! i'm a sovereign citizen!

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Prosperity Park, on 26 April 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

You bought modules to improve mech performance. This includes sensor upgrades, weapon mods, etc.


You did not buy them as if they were trade bonds. You did not buy modules for the sake of using them as a C-Bill reservoir for later liquidation. You did not buy them for the sake of laundering Cbills and refusing to equip them on your Mechs.

Face it, if you bought modules, it is because you wanted to spend your Cbills on weapon mods, sensor upgrades, etc. If you didn't want these things, you would not have bought those modules.

In exchange for your modules, you are getting skill points that act as weapon mods, sensor upgrades, etc. You are exchanging upgrades for upgrades.

If you are complaining about this, then you have to openly admit that you bought modules for the sole sake of selling them back later, and *not* to equip them on your Mech to improve performance.

I don't think anyone here is that stupid. So, please, drop the act and stop complaining. I know you are not that dumb, I have faith in you.

I did buy them for extra performance, which now is baked into the skill tree that I instantly have access to via my historical XP from my mastered mechs making the GSP I am getting from my older modules not worth a damn. It is more of the refund of modules is worthless given PGI decided that Old Mastery = New Master so if you had all 13 nodes unlocked you get 91 SP to spend on your mech making it so if that mech was fully moduled out those modules now give you GSP that ideally would have gone to that mech, but, have no place on it. So instead they end up in a nebulous region of nowhere.

So where does that rest GSP? Autoleveling new mechs? So then what is the point of grinding new mechs and the new skill tree and this big cbill sink PGI just gave us with the skill tree if they are giving people with modules a get out of jail free card via GSP?

It is more of the refund doesn't match up, there is no hole it is filling. If Old mastery =/= new mastery then GSP would have a point to existing where old mastery was around 72 nodes of 91, then GSP would fill out the last 19 nodes on the mech. I would have been less annoyed then as it would have been a gap filler and logically so. But, not so much here where my mastered mechs are mastered still and they had modules so now those modules don't matter, so I get GSP that floats around doing nothing and likely never getting completely used up just like GXP barely got touched once I unlocked to modules for my most commonly used equipment.

In otherwords, my frustration is that the module refund into GSP feels meaningless and pointless as it I get nothing from it, yay, I can fully level up 14 mechs from 0 skills, yay? Not really. GSP is meaningless for people who have mostly mastered mechs, so I will end up selling my modules since that is an option that I can do before the skill tree goes live, but, that will be held off until PGI puts the skill tree in a patch notes. It is less frustration at PGI, and more of I want to get something back for expending resources gained via playtime that are actually useful. GSP is just GXP + Cbills rolled into one item, let's not kid ourselves, it is just a fancy coin that you can't sell and instead you slot into the back of your mech to make it work better instead of paying cbills and time to tune the mech.

[Dodger79]

StaggerCheck, on 26 April 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

If you were to sell them at ANY point over the last three years, you'd get a 50% return on your investment. Right now, you can choose to sell them for a 50% return on your investment. If you are upset at the proposed refund PGI has put forth, sell them for a 50% return on your investment. I fail to see why anyone is upset with PGI at this point.

You really cannot see why 50% refund is worse than 100% refund? Man, i would _really_ like doing business with you then...

I already get GSP for the current level my Mechs have, why would i need GSP for another 200+ Mechs i have to buy first? Especially when a full module-refund would include GXP, too? That's sth people seem to be missing when talking about module-refunds, they're just thinking CB.

Edited by Dodger79, 26 April 2017 - 09:10 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dodger79, on 26 April 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

You really cannot why 50% refund is worse than 100% refund? Man, i would _really_ like doing business with you then...

I already get GSP for the current level my Mechs have, why would i need GSP for another 200+ Mechs i have to buy first? Especially when a full module-refund would include GXP, too? That's sth people seem to be missing when talking about module-refunds, they're just thinking CB.

It is really surprising around here to see how many people prefer being ripped off. It doesn't make any sense that people would fight against the option to get a full refund when it only provides a benefit to them and otherwise harms nothing else.

[Bishop Steiner]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 26 April 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

I did buy them for extra performance, which now is baked into the skill tree that I instantly have access to via my historical XP from my mastered mechs making the GSP I am getting from my older modules not worth a damn. It is more of the refund of modules is worthless given PGI decided that Old Mastery = New Master so if you had all 13 nodes unlocked you get 91 SP to spend on your mech making it so if that mech was fully moduled out those modules now give you GSP that ideally would have gone to that mech, but, have no place on it. So instead they end up in a nebulous region of nowhere.

So where does that rest GSP? Autoleveling new mechs? So then what is the point of grinding new mechs and the new skill tree and this big cbill sink PGI just gave us with the skill tree if they are giving people with modules a get out of jail free card via GSP?

It is more of the refund doesn't match up, there is no hole it is filling. If Old mastery =/= new mastery then GSP would have a point to existing where old mastery was around 72 nodes of 91, then GSP would fill out the last 19 nodes on the mech. I would have been less annoyed then as it would have been a gap filler and logically so. But, not so much here where my mastered mechs are mastered still and they had modules so now those modules don't matter, so I get GSP that floats around doing nothing and likely never getting completely used up just like GXP barely got touched once I unlocked to modules for my most commonly used equipment.

In otherwords, my frustration is that the module refund into GSP feels meaningless and pointless as it I get nothing from it, yay, I can fully level up 14 mechs from 0 skills, yay? Not really. GSP is meaningless for people who have mostly mastered mechs, so I will end up selling my modules since that is an option that I can do before the skill tree goes live, but, that will be held off until PGI puts the skill tree in a patch notes. It is less frustration at PGI, and more of I want to get something back for expending resources gained via playtime that are actually useful. GSP is just GXP + Cbills rolled into one item, let's not kid ourselves, it is just a fancy coin that you can't sell and instead you slot into the back of your mech to make it work better instead of paying cbills and time to tune the mech.

So I guess you are never going to respec and change around skills based on the Meta? Good to know.

I'm going to be following this mostly closely to see how many of the people who sold off before the Patch are then whining 6 months later (or sooner, maybe much sooner) that they don't have the Skill Points needed.