75 replies to this topic

[Bjorn Coston]

By all means PUG. I enjoy respectful disagreements that lead to great conversations on the forums (considering how rare they are ). I don't mean to say that the IS isn't lacking any talented units as well. Like you listed we got a good bunch of good pilots with those units. Just from my observation you got a bunch of top-tier merc units running Clan right meow, more so than IS since many of the units on the IS leaderboards are Loyalist. I'm not saying that Loyalist units aren't necessarily bad (cause hey I'm in one woot SROT!), but it's usually an observable fact that Merc units possess a more talented pilot pool. Whereas the leaderboard for Smoke Jag, which has the most points for the event so far, is almost entirely comprised of Mercs.

I definitely agree on the issue of new pilots being ill-prepared and just stumbling around as walking targets. My only thing is that I was Clan for over 3 years with units like CWI, CGBI, and EK and we saw the same issues with PUG pilots coming to Clan brand spanking new and not knowing what mechs to have or how to pilot them. Perhaps there's a lack of coordination that manifests more aggressively on the IS side in regards to TS and solo pugs. I know I don't usually play unless I'm in a group of 6-8+. Can't stand the lack of teamwork and cohesion.

[LordNothing]

taking a clan contract as soon as my liao contract expires. should be a couple more hours.

[Akala Tanara]

I had some utterly horrible stompings the first two days. Quite a few matches dropping PUGs vs 12man Units, thats where a lot of the balance becomes broken and thrown out the window. The next two days though have been better. Yesterday, I had a match that was literally the damned highlight of the last 4 months I would say, both PUG groups, very close match the whole way to the end, and my team lost. But damn was it a wicked fun fight from start to finish. Not a single person seemed unhappy with the outcome. The other two were good, pretty close and fun, and one that was just aggravating as hell. Someone said that they were a PUG group of some of the top players on the leaderboards or something. It was a slaughter though. Throw on top of that some of them can act like real douchebags because they're winning, spouting "noob" this and that. Sure glad for the block button though. Today wasn't so bad, mostly decent matches some fun ones, a lot of PUG vs PUG today and not one person being an ***.

I admit I'm not that good, I don't really feel like I belong in tier 3 and I prefer to stick to quickplay mostly myself. But I have my moments. I know to torso twist, can keep a decently steady aim while on the move, etc. I build my own mechs, my way but I don't bring LRMs to Faction Play. (don't really bring LRMs to anything for that matter). I think my UAC5 KGC is probably the most "meta" I have of a mech. It can go well or horribly wrong. At the end of the day, as long as I get my score of 80 or higher, and have a bit of fun with it, I don't give a damn who wins. Aim for the win, but try not to get hooked on needing the win, only NEED to win scouting to complete the event after all.

[YoioReloaded]

Willard Phule, on 06 May 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

- Even though Invasion seems to be dominated by Clan, scouting is dominated by IS. Wondering if that means the organized units are focusing on getting that part of the event out of the way first.

Clans have a 5 tons disadvantage on scout... basically a stormcrow ban. Why did they ban it? Because before scout was dominated as well.
I get that skills are key, and btw not that I am that good, but it was very hard and frustrating to deal with streak crows that were basically autoaming one-shotting machines.
And I admit that, compared to last year tukayyid battle, I am really struggling, I had to redo the whole drop deck and still having trouble to have a consistent performance level. The problem is not to counter EBJs or Hellbringers (those are very long range but hot), but boy Night Gyrs and MAD-IICs, those two spam auto-cannons and just won't go down!
May be last year Tukayyid has been a little easy for IS, but this year I can't say the same for sure.

[Vellron2005]

I've actually been dropping on some alt accounts as IS, (GF's account), and let me tell you guys..

Dropping as IS in a pug FP drop is like dropping with toddlers..

I honestly can't believe your concept of playing is getting the door open (I opened the door, EVERY TIME cose' you guys don't seem to know how, honestly, learn this, it's not difficult), then try to snipe through the door, or get into 100 meters of enemy mechs, stopping and shooting at them..

NOBODY calls targets, there are no plans, no ideas, just trickle into the base and die..

The saddest thing I saw was a guy actually trying to organize, only to have most of the team completely ignore him, and someone outright telling him in chat "just get your 80 points"

That's sad..

No wonder we clanners are using you for target practice..

It's your total lack of discipline, drive and heart that's loosing you Tukayyid..

Sure, the IS has some great units, and MS is stuck in contract, but they are too few in number to account for all the blunders you guys do while "getting your 80 points"..

I'm not trying to berate you and be all "git gud" about it, I'm just stating a fact:

Clanners play this event for the glory of the win. IS are in it to get their free stuff.

Heart > Greed every time.

[Czarr]

IS can win the only reason why we don't is because we have the Pug-ness....like guys seriously bringing bad builds and poking and trading fire when they don't need to. I saw one pug waste three of his mechs in the first 5 minutes alone...he was down to one mech for the rest of the match. I face palm everytime...its why I would rather play with a pre made than a pug team. PGI really needs a tier system for FP. I am sure clans have a lot of clueless pugs as well but its not as bad as what is on IS right now.

Edited by Czarr, 10 May 2017 - 01:41 AM.

[Akala Tanara]

Vellron2005, on 10 May 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

I've actually been dropping on some alt accounts as IS, (GF's account), and let me tell you guys..

Dropping as IS in a pug FP drop is like dropping with toddlers..

I honestly can't believe your concept of playing is getting the door open (I opened the door, EVERY TIME cose' you guys don't seem to know how, honestly, learn this, it's not difficult), then try to snipe through the door, or get into 100 meters of enemy mechs, stopping and shooting at them..

NOBODY calls targets, there are no plans, no ideas, just trickle into the base and die..

The saddest thing I saw was a guy actually trying to organize, only to have most of the team completely ignore him, and someone outright telling him in chat "just get your 80 points"

That's sad..

No wonder we clanners are using you for target practice..

It's your total lack of discipline, drive and heart that's loosing you Tukayyid..

Sure, the IS has some great units, and MS is stuck in contract, but they are too few in number to account for all the blunders you guys do while "getting your 80 points"..

I'm not trying to berate you and be all "git gud" about it, I'm just stating a fact:

Clanners play this event for the glory of the win. IS are in it to get their free stuff.

Heart > Greed every time.

A lot of the time, nobody knows what they're doing even when someone's trying to lead. I play to win, but when it's obviously hopeless, yeah. I play for my damn 80 score or better, because that's all you can do when everyone's moral has been repeatedly stomped into the ground by 12 man unit's that're far beyond the skill and equipment and coordination of a PUG group of IS. A lot of them lost the will to give a crap after the first two days probably. My will grew the last two days, since seeing some actual PUG Clanners, I suspect some IS PUGs switched sides already, which is good, balances out some of the random drops at least lol. I just wanna knock out the event and have as much fun as I can.

[metallio]

So...we draw from the same general population pool of human beings with computers...split them into two groups that people get to choose...and one group stomps the snot out of the other.

...and you guys are making it out like one of those groups is just plain stupid? Tens of thousands of people associated with each side and it's just "on average we're smarter and better people"?

Did MWO just solve the universal human issue of selecting leaders and effective actors? Like, Aristotle and Socrates would be frikkin' proud wouldn't they?

...or do you think maybe there's something else going on other than some sort of manifest destiny?

Oh, you don't mean it that way? You mean that IS players are just on average worse? ...it's the same thing folks. There's no way you can screw up your face and sneer at how dumb your opponents are when faced with a population of thousands and thousands and not look like an idiot and a jack*ss. If you can't see beyond "they suck!" to suggest a more complex selectivity process or at least recognize that an extremely important one exists then you simply don't know wtf you're talking about. What that process is doesn't matter at this stage. If you're regurgitating any version of "it's fine man! it's fine!" because those dopey IS players won't "git gud dummy!" or some variation thereof you're simply out in left field and should limit your contribution to the discussion.

When that many people who aren't as effective at a task self-select themselves away from those who are far more effective at it there's a major systematic issue at play, not any version whatsoever of the cackling BS I see on these forums constantly brayed about how those people just haven't been willing to work at it.

That's almost completely separate from the question of what the issue is.

My take? It's mech price and nothing more. If every single new player could buy every single mech at exactly the same price, we'd see some degree of selection from other social motivators but so long as there's a huge cbill grind thrown up against a new player who can decide to buy a mech or beat themselves to death for maybe weeks or months depending on how much they play just to buy a single clan mech the new players aren't going to do it. The Battletech/Mechwarrior fan boys all arrived years ago and have accounts that are years and years old. We have experience. We know what to buy, what to mount, and where to stand.

You don't make a game whose only long term draw is pokemech and get new players who grab up the expensive and effective options right away. Ever...and it darn sure doesn't happen here. Ugh, screw it. The people who want to bark about how much better they are than the next guy are going to keep barking. Why did I bother to write this?

[Bud Crue]

metallio, on 10 May 2017 - 03:28 AM, said:

So...we draw from the same general population pool of human beings with computers...split them into two groups that people get to choose...and one group stomps the snot out of the other.
...

Loved your post, right up until your posit regarding mech price. If this were a brand new game and a brand new IP with new players coming for the game itself, then I believe your analysis would be spot on. One huge factor in this game, under the auspices of this IP that drives A LOT of (old) players decisions is nostalgia. It doesn't change your analysis or your conclusion (just because many players are driven to play bad mechs out of nostalgia rather than price doesn't make those mechs any better or worse and its still PGI's problem), just adds one more factor that PGI ought to realize and ought to be taking into account. Good post.

[Hanky Spam]

Vellron2005, on 10 May 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

I've actually been dropping on some alt accounts as IS, (GF's account), and let me tell you guys..

Dropping as IS in a pug FP drop is like dropping with toddlers..

I honestly can't believe your concept of playing is getting the door open (I opened the door, EVERY TIME cose' you guys don't seem to know how, honestly, learn this, it's not difficult), then try to snipe through the door, or get into 100 meters of enemy mechs, stopping and shooting at them..

NOBODY calls targets, there are no plans, no ideas, just trickle into the base and die..

The saddest thing I saw was a guy actually trying to organize, only to have most of the team completely ignore him, and someone outright telling him in chat "just get your 80 points"

That's sad..

No wonder we clanners are using you for target practice..

The same can happen on Clan side too... it's not just an IS thing that people don't want to play like in a team.
I do also think that alot of these average (or below) players are already only used to the FW quickplay modes. We need more siege mode in FW instead of QP mode matches!

Yesterday I had the case that in a couple of matches "above average FW players" were unable to push properly and call targets. Hell, some of them even stayed at the gate on boreal vault, siege attack, while the rest of the team pushed already in.

Alot of MWO gamers forgot (or never knew) how to behave in siege mode matches.
This is sad, but it's the truth...

[Akala Tanara]

Just a random amusing thought I had, but maybe Faction Warfare should be limited to STOCK variants according to Lore, prevent all these overpowered meta-builds that people make to perfectly optimize certain ways. You'd still have issues of course, some stock are garbage vs others no doubt, but it'd bring it closer to lore maybe and fix some of the insane burst that some builds have? It's just a thought though. I don't know nearly enough about it to know how it would actually affect the game, pretty sure it'd make a lot of my own builds (I don't do meta) unusable too.

[Akala Tanara]

Hanky Spam, on 10 May 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

The same can happen on Clan side too... it's not just an IS thing that people don't want to play like in a team.
I do also think that alot of these average (or below) players are already only used to the FW quickplay modes. We need more siege mode in FW instead of QP mode matches!

Yesterday I had the case that in a couple of matches "above average FW players" were unable to push properly and call targets. Hell, some of them even stayed at the gate on boreal vault, siege attack, while the rest of the team pushed already in.

Alot of MWO gamers forgot (or never knew) how to behave in siege mode matches.
This is sad, but it's the truth...

Yeah I admit my first match I forgot how to open the damn gates myself. I figured it out by the time they blew the damn door's open but till then I was just boredly poking the door as I ran up to it. Didn't really matter, I didn't waste ammo on it, and didn't have the position to hit the actual target at the time, slow King Crab had nothing better to do while getting into position lol. Until this event, I don't think I had seen Siege for a very long time, barely got to get in FW matches before the Quickplay modes were added, as long as the damn queues were before they added that, so it's no wonder I forgot, and no wonder a lot of others are clueless as to how the damn mode works in the first place. Most of the PUGs are just doing it for the event anyway. Once the event ends, they'll go back to QP and not bother the FW players until the next FW event.

[duccio]

Would it be better to have a more balanced battle or not?

Edited by duccio, 10 May 2017 - 05:29 AM.

[Marius Romanis]

I love a close fight more than a 1 sided stomp, but the only way that will happen is ...
1. Have a big change to the game that draws in massive numbers.. i dunno like a skill tree or new weapons or a fp/cw event with multiple mech rewards (like we got last june/july?)
2. Simultaneously split FP into SOLO or Grouped (1 - 12 excluding 11) buckets
3. Simultaneously add a GOOD matchmaking tool to the solo queue mode.
4. Give a 5?? MC reward and 2?? MC for a loss reward to those who drop in the grouped FP queue to encourage people to do it rather than club seals solo, perhaps 2%?? More cbills too.

If they dont do the above within 1 month of new weps people are going to leave the mode in droves faster than ever before and the population will sink too low to implement a matchmaking system that would stop them leaving.

B4 you think or reply that "solo has been tried" go search my 20 posts explaining with many others that it has not.

[metallio]

Bud Crue, on 10 May 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

Loved your post, right up until your posit regarding mech price.

Yeah, I almost left that out...and I made the argument stronger than I actually think the influence is...

My main concern is the obnoxious obliviousness of high tier players smugly talking down to the people who are having trouble. The smug guys are either clan or swap back and forth to clan and are in the top 10% at least. The people having trouble are almost universally IS and the discussion should be about what to do for them, not why the gatekeeping is fine and we should just go ahead and enjoy our inferiority complex.

It's frustrating.

[Hanky Spam]

CadoAzazel, on 10 May 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

I love a close fight more than a 1 sided stomp, but the only way that will happen is ...
1. Have a big change to the game that draws in massive numbers.. i dunno like a skill tree or new weapons or a fp/cw event with multiple mech rewards (like we got last june/july?)
2. Simultaneously split FP into SOLO or Grouped (1 - 12 excluding 11) buckets
3. Simultaneously add a GOOD matchmaking tool to the solo queue mode.
4. Give a 5?? MC reward and 2?? MC for a loss reward to those who drop in the grouped FP queue to encourage people to do it rather than club seals solo, perhaps 2%?? More cbills too.

If they dont do the above within 1 month of new weps people are going to leave the mode in droves faster than ever before and the population will sink too low to implement a matchmaking system that would stop them leaving.

B4 you think or reply that "solo has been tried" go search my 20 posts explaining with many others that it has not.

What you do demand/suggest wont work for FW, due to population numbers.
In general we already had this kind of suggestions already at least one year ago and afaik something like matchmaker was introduced long long time ago as well. Neither of these things didn't work out as everyone was hoping it....


The only thing that should be done is to introduce more/better incentives/payouts for mercs/loyalists to achieve a better balance among factions.

I would also suggest a recurring purge of "dead" players. How many loyalists are blowing the population numbers up and decreasing the payouts while they are not playing?

[justcallme A S H]

Damnedtroll, on 09 May 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Are some clan team ghost dropping because of the size of players base ?? Do ghost drop still exist?

Right now?

No.

If there wasn't an event? Yep, don't place Oceanic mid week, it's ghost-drop central. It was ok for the first 8 weeks of QP4.1 - After that, people realised what it was, and gave up.

[Marius Romanis]

Hanky Spam, on 10 May 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

What you do demand/suggest wont work for FW, due to population numbers.
In general we already had this kind of suggestions already at least one year ago and afaik something like matchmaker was introduced long long time ago as well. Neither of these things didn't work out as everyone was hoping it....

Did you ignore, miss read or fail to understand what i wrote? Being that during tuk3, after new shits added that brings ppl back (ST/weps) the population goes up enough that a MM would work. And no nothing I said has been done b4 or tried a year ago as i clearly stated.

[Hanky Spam]

CadoAzazel, on 10 May 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

Did you ignore, miss read or fail to understand what i wrote? Being that during tuk3, after new shits added that brings ppl back (ST/weps) the population goes up enough that a MM would work. And no nothing I said has been done b4 or tried a year ago as i clearly stated.

The only one who is apparently not that familiar with FW is you, also you expect something that necessarily won't occur (like active FW population goes up). You assume that, or you know that? If it's the latter one then tell me the lottery numbers for today please, you must have the ability to look into the future...wow lol

Oh yeh, there you go with the MM: http://mwomercs.com/...e-how-it-works/

[WHITEWOLF660]

this is what happens when you force a faction to professionalism through nerfing their mechs. clan mechs are NOT any better than IS mechs. I Pilot both of them and i have to say that im surprised that the IS is not winning. the IS Orion has the same CT values as the Clan 100 ton DireWolf! how is the innersphere not winning this? they just complain when they cant compete and rage quit 2 days into a several day event.