58 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

There are a lot of IS fans who would love to see a 3025 (or more like 3039) mode so that they can play IS vs IS in faction wars and entirely ignore the Clan Power Creep stuff.

Also, as an IS Whiner, where do you think you are going with this? Do you really think you are a better player/person for using clan mechs?

What would you do if they introduced a new wave of PGI uber mechs with superior to clan technology but that all look like they were designed by a toddler who eats crayons? Switch to the ugly mechs without issue or complain that the balance is borked?

[Scyther]

OP, "lolwutstupids!" posts don't show off much in the way of maturity, thought, or a desire for intelligent discussion.

Saying "I played IS for years when there was nothing but IS!" only shows that as soon as a better option appeared, you switched. Obviously for you the only thing that matters is 'which side has the better tech?'. Your own actions and statements show that IS players actually have a valid point to complain about.

Valid reasons for playing IS:
-You started early in MWO and collected, geared up and mastered quite a few IS mechs.
-You have a history with the BT IP and that history includes a preference for IS mechs.
-You simply like the look/design of some IS mechs.
-You are a newer player and the fact that IS mechs 'look' cheaper made you choose them first.
-You actually care about the game as a whole and decided a fight needs 2 sides.
-You dislike either the lore/story of Clans or the frequently, smug, douchey attitude displayed by some Clan players.

You generally don't see a ton of Clan 'whining' because they already have the best mechs and best tech. (Most of the 'comp' mechs are Clan for a reason) Yet they do still manage to whine anyway. Quirk a few IS mechs up to Clan/comp levels and you will see the whining start. As it has in the past.

I play IS and Clan about equally, I personally don't really care. That doesn't mean I can't see obvious imbalances in game design. Well, BT lore creates the imbalance from the start because Clan tech simply is better. The challenge for PGI is to find a workable in-game approach to bringing that balance closer together without breaking the IP entirely.

The challenge for players is to find ways to continue to enjoy, promote, and help the game stay viable. Without, you know, being a jerk about it.

[Mawai]

LOL

1) If no one played on the IS side you wouldn't have a game so your statement that complainers should play clans isn't useful. "If clans as so good everyone should play them". There are also a lot of other reasons folks choose to play IS rather than clans even though the clans are more effective.

2) I have both IS and clan mechs. However, I generally prefer the extra customization options on IS. It doesn't make up for clan tech working better but I have a lot of fun working on builds that I like to play. There are many other reasons to choose to play IS over clans ... lore, preferred mech designs, memories of when folks started playing the game.

3) From personal experience ... my MAD IIC. HBK IIC, Jenner IIC, HBR, SCR, and ACH outperform most or all of my comparable IS mechs. They run a bit hotter but usually that isn't relevant depending on how you peek and poke ... getting that high damage alpha farther down range is generally far more important ... and weapons like the clan ERML are very effective at bridging short to medium ranges since they are almost as effective as an IS LL. In addition, clan XL allows faster speed and more tonnage available for weapons without the risk of dying to side torso loss, clan FF and Endo require only 7 crit slots ... the bottom line is that on average clan mechs are more effective than IS ones. I don't really undersntad how folks can claim otherwise if they have played both reasonably extensively ... but who knows.

4) Finally and most important ... MWO is a game that, in my opinion, should offer somewhat balanced gameplay. Having one side in a conflict with a 10% to 30% (or 50%) performance advantage over the options for the opposing side is simply the wrong philosophy in my opinion. The game should come down to player skill and team work ... not which side has better tech. Whether that balance is achieved through tech normalization or through tonnage differences or through having different numbers of players on each team is a design decision that is up to the game developer. However, the bottom line is that the game should be balanced ... and MWO at the moment is not.

[Weeny Machine]

Pr8Dator, on 07 May 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Dude, I started this game 5 years ago in beta, I STARTED PLAYING FROM IS FFS LOL! I believe I spent MORE time in IS than you ever did because for YEARS this game had nothing but IS FFS! LOL! The only gaming video I ever made of MWO is a Cataphract! LOL! Check the link in the sig! LOL!

The brainlessness of the IS Whiners here is beginning to make me understand the situation, LOL!

Dude, you are evidence that we live in post factual times - simply because you ignore facts consequently and regurgitate the same "lol you whiners lololol" crap all the time.

And I thought Asians were famous for their dragons...seems they are famous for trolls

[Mystere]

Antares102, on 07 May 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

Mate, everybody whines about IS being inferior to clan because it's a god damn fact.
...
Just because somebody is not openly whining on the forum does not mean they are not whining at all.
...

Everybody? Speak for your g*dd****d self!

Pr8Dator, on 07 May 2017 - 04:43 AM, said:

Your "everyone whines" is a typical non empirical assumption of anti social logic that makes this world so bad now... sigh... "everyone hates the government", "everyone hates the rich", "everyone blah blah blah" when the truth is, the noisy minority always think they are the "everyone"...sigh...

Edited by Mystere, 07 May 2017 - 06:08 AM.

[El Bandito]

Troll thread. Shake head, and move on...

[oldradagast]

Pr8Dator, on 07 May 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

If you guys really think Clan mechs are OP, faster, stronger, cooler, basically god mode on legs, why are you guys not playing Clan??

Why aren't we all playing Clan?

- Not everyone who plays MWO, or any game, is hyper-competitive. Many people wish to be able to play the game within the themes or flavor they enjoy while still remaining competitive.

- If Clan's are truly the only faction worth playing, that still means the game is severely unbalanced, even if everyone does play Clan. This, in turn, means the IS is nothing but a false choice and trap for new players to sell them crappy mechs and soon drive them away from the game. That is a poor business plan on PGI's part and a show of lousy game design and balancing ability.

Let's look at another very successful game with a lot of competition and moving parts: Magic, the Gathering. The game has been around for almost 25 years now and is still going strong; MWO looks like a stumbling child in comparison to MtG.

At no point in MtG's long history did the developer's just say, "Well, who cares if this card, combo, or deck is broken and wins most of the time? Everyone should just play that card, combo, or deck if they want to win!" Sure, sure - all the hyper-competitive people are perfectly fine with tournaments full of only 1 deck type and maybe a few decks that might counter it, and they no doubt love stomping "stoopid noobs" and their non-meta decks, but WotC is smart enough to understand that allowing such boring and stagnant game environments is bad for the game. That's why they have everything from rotating formats to restricted and banned lists.

Long story short, successful game companies know that "who cares - just play the 1 thing that wins!" is not a successful strategy if you want your game to have any interest or appeal to anyone but a dwindling group of core, hyper-competitive types who'd gladly play the same thing over and over forever because winning is all that matters to them.

Edited by oldradagast, 07 May 2017 - 06:21 AM.

[MerryIguana]

This guy.... Pr8dator is like a lobotomized Gyrok.

[Antares102]

Bud Crue, on 07 May 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Oh for the days of the Thunderbolt 5SS. Alas, those days are gone. They could return, but that would mean "god tier quirks" and PGI wants a "drastic" reduction of all offensive quirks so no. Those days are never coming back. So me an my XL running Warhammer are about as close as I can get to that mix of speed, damage and range profile.

Bud Crue hits the nail on the head. Back in the days when the 5SS still had its god like quirks it was one of the few mechs that could compete with clan mechs. Why? Because you could run a 300 STD engine with 20 DHS and 7 MPL be fast (84 kph) nimble (with torso twist) and still have decent range (350m) and firepower (42 alpha with 15% cooldown).
WIth a lot of torso twisting using your left arm as a shield you could actually go 1vs1 against a Timber and win.

But this time is long gone...

[Monkey Lover]

Half the mechs i own are clan and 90% of them we're using in comp play and group q.

So to answer your question yes I use the mechs i think are best.

[MechaBattler]

PGI will inevitably try to balance things anyways. As they should. And hopefully with the new guy as dedicated balance overlord. Maybe we'll see some good changes. The engine changes and changes to crit system says to me they're aiming for addressing the core mechanics of the game. Rather than just using band aid fixes like quirks and drop deck tonnage.

But if and when that happens. And your "favorite thing" is getting nerfed. I hope we don't see you complaining and whining just as loudly as the IS players you are condescending to.

[Karl Streiger]

Antares102, on 07 May 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

Bud Crue hits the nail on the head. Back in the days when the 5SS still had its god like quirks it was one of the few mechs that could compete with clan mechs. Why? Because you could run a 300 STD engine with 20 DHS and 7 MPL be fast (84 kph) nimble (with torso twist) and still have decent range (350m) and firepower (42 alpha with 15% cooldown).
WIth a lot of torso twisting using your left arm as a shield you could actually go 1vs1 against a Timber and win.

But this time is long gone...

Didn't the MPL also did show the quality of this game - i know that the MPL was not part of a Ghost Heat group - when i bought me a TopDog.... but can't remember.
The sweet spot for MPL was indeed 7. The best mix of damage and heat dissipation - 6 are ok now but 7 was better. It also shows the flaw of the Ghost Heat system btw.

MechaBattler, on 07 May 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

PGI will inevitably try to balance things anyways. As they should. And hopefully with the new guy as dedicated balance overlord. Maybe we'll see some good changes. The engine changes and changes to crit system says to me they're aiming for addressing the core mechanics of the game. Rather than just using band aid fixes like quirks and drop deck tonnage.

But if and when that happens. And your "favorite thing" is getting nerfed. I hope we don't see you complaining and whining just as loudly as the IS players you are condescending to.

Something I fear more than I hope for.
Simple - balancing on Tukk games how do you want to adress it?

Are the reason simple the best gamers are playing Clan? Of course considering the CRM history of PGI such a statement will be delivered - but you have a couple of other reasons:

• IS players trying to win - few
  
• IS players trying to get the event done - more
  
• IS players don't even playing FP - most

In the drops - how many solo players, group sizes, consistency of the drop decks, maxed out mechs with full modules or trial mechs...........
There are a dozen of things that need to be analyzed alone before it comes to IS vs Clan balance.

The lack of FP is that it was not right from the beginning group only (Fixed sizes 4;5;6;8;12) - and you get the opposite number - dropping as 4 would place you fighting a group of 4....

A game screen that did show the available groups in queue would helped much too

With Solos the time in a lobby as well as the tools in the lobby must be increased - when you drop with 12 different ideas how to play the game with 12 different drop decks you get wiped out.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 May 2017 - 11:23 PM.

[Ryllen Kriel]

Dude!

[CK16]

Honestly? I think some Spheroids are just salty that the "bad guys"are winning or that they are 3025 purist and hate the clans in general. You won't satisfy these types. They will moan and ***** till Clans are so nerfed that even an ER Large cant do dmg at 1m.

[Lily from animove]

Juodas Varnas, on 07 May 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

So... You want to sit in queue forever, because there is no-one playing on the IS side?

Perfect logic, can't complain.

OP's question is still true, why are those whining about how OP clans are not palying clans themselves? IS has more pop, so mor epop on clanside wouldn't hurt.

Well I guess for many of those that cry it would reveal that they are the cause for beeing bad and they wouldn't perform better in clanmechs. So staying IS is still granting that excuse of how the imbalance is the reason they lose. But as long as I see KDK 3's even in QP ending with less than 100 damage I can ensure you it doesn't matter if these people go Clan, some suck because they are bad, and so they better stop whining about a reason thats not the true reason.

[PhoenixFire55]

Bads are gonna bad. The difference is when you bad in IS mech you can always blame clams-op for everything.

Had a match two days ago with only 2 players on our side and 3 on IS side (rest were disco's). You'd think 3 on 2 would be enough of an advantage for IS. Well, think again. The actual kill score (before we started farming disco's) was 12:2 in our favor. I.e. it took us 2 mechs to kill 12 of theirs. Whadda ya think we've heard after we won our micro-match? ... Yeah, clans OP easy mode. We killed their brawlers with Gauss+PPC mechs at point blank range. On their spawn. I wasn't even on comms with my teammate and yet somehow we both went forward, focused targets and generally supported each other.

All I can say is ... whatever. I got a gitgud for every easymode you'll throw at me anyway.

[SuomiWarder]

My original MW4 unit was IS so that was a factor (we reformed it for a while but eventually too many disliked MWo and quit so we shut down). The other reason I play IS mostly even though I own a few Clan mechs (which I generally find more effective in game than their IS counterparts in weight class) is that I have a mental block about playing bad guys in games. I don't play as Germans in WWII games, don't play assassin games, etc. As I always felt that the Clans were racist, gene-purists slavers and thus Bad Guys (even though a few authors tried to paint them in a more positive light like the Aiden Pryde novels) I just can't wrap my head around signing up with a Clan faction.

[Templar Dane]

Pr8Dator, on 07 May 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

If you guys really think Clan mechs are OP, faster, stronger, cooler, basically god mode on legs, why are you guys not playing Clan?? You are not born IS for real you know? This is a video game and there are no special qualifications for playing clan mechs, so, JUST PLAY IT! LOL! Why complain about something being too strong if you can also play it? Unless you have something against having fun? Or maybe you love to complain? Or, you are anti establishment and just want to live life the hard way? I mean, tell me please... what's on your mind?

NOTE: Not all IS players are whiners. There are many good IS players. I am only talking about the NOISY MINORITY WHINERS.

UPDATE: The sad thing about reading these responses so far is whiners making excuses why they should keep doing so! LOL! I have nothing to say hahaha... keep whining then... perhaps its your favorite pastime.

Because clanners are stinky evil bastages or something.

There's a demographic in this game of old-timers who played tabletop back in the day who still resent the introduction of clans. Many of them haven't played an FPS since MW4. They likely had to buy a new computer to play this game. A good number use/used a flight stick to play the game, which isn't much better than using a steering wheel.

Those guys are never gonna try signing up for clan, and if they do it's with another account because they'd never soil their main account with clan mechs.

As an aside, I'm getting up there in age and played tabletop in the 90s....but I've played FPSs since I was a teenager and never stopped.

There's also the.......not sure what to call it..........guys that always play the good guys. Clanners are evil scum! Oh they killed me....they must be cheating! OH look at the post above this one, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Those guys are always going to be the loudest voice, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Edited by Templar Dane, 08 May 2017 - 10:14 AM.

[R Valentine]

Trust me. I tried to get my unit to switch. We were even going to rename Clan Seal Clubber.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Templar Dane, on 08 May 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

Because clanners are stinky evil bastages or something.

There's a demographic in this game of old-timers who played tabletop back in the day who still resent the introduction of clans. Many of them haven't played an FPS since MW4. They likely had to buy a new computer to play this game. A good number use/used a flight stick to play the game, which isn't much better than using a steering wheel.

Those guys are never gonna try signing up for clan, and if they do it's with another account because they'd never soil their main account with clan mechs.

As an aside, I'm getting up there in age and played tabletop in the 90s....but I've played FPSs since I was a teenager and never stopped.

There's also the.......not sure what to call it..........guys that always play the good guys. Clanners are evil scum! Oh they killed me....they must be cheating! OH look at the post above this one, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Those guys are always going to be the loudest voice, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Clan squeaking got pretty damn loud when the IS quirks got them mechs capable of holding their own.